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Need a cheap ABG for coffee shop gigs
- Thread starter Tupac
- Start date
I have a Rainsong all graphite AEB guitar that is incredibly loud for an acoustic bass, much louder than a Thunderchief. But it still wouldn't stand a chance with a drummer, singer and acoustic guitar in a moderately crowded bar. A coffee shop maybe, a bar no.
But good luck finding another Rainsong bass. They only made about six of them before deciding to focus completely on guitars. The one I have was custom made by Rainsong for John Entwistle who later sold it to Jimmy Haslip which is who I bought it from.
Besides geometry, and construction methods I suspect materials and strings have a lot to do with projection as well.
Here's a pic of John playing it outside the LA House of Blues in the late 1990's...
But good luck finding another Rainsong bass. They only made about six of them before deciding to focus completely on guitars. The one I have was custom made by Rainsong for John Entwistle who later sold it to Jimmy Haslip which is who I bought it from.
Besides geometry, and construction methods I suspect materials and strings have a lot to do with projection as well.
Here's a pic of John playing it outside the LA House of Blues in the late 1990's...
I've heard good things about Ibanez ABGs. Deans are cheap, not sure about how good they are. A non-cutaway will be louder than a cutaway.
My ABG is a Carlos Robelli, non-cutaway model.
Pros: loud, indestructible
Cons: action is too high, battery compartment is accessible only to garden gnomes and Keebler elves
My ABG is a Carlos Robelli, non-cutaway model.
Pros: loud, indestructible
Cons: action is too high, battery compartment is accessible only to garden gnomes and Keebler elves
LOL, Tony's Musik in Hurst, Texas. But, he sold it.Hmmm, well, where is this music store? Hate to admit it, but I currently "qualify".
You are correct. My Dragonfly 5 is very pretty (my wife's favorite, I dare not trade or sell it) and sounds great through an amp. The sound when played acoustically is good, but not nearly enough volume.
They both have large bodies with very thin tops, which are properly braced so they'll pump lots of air but still be strong enough. The thin top+proper bracing is a huge part of it and not done well cheaply. In the case of the Warwick it appears that they've tuned the body/soundhole to produce a strong hump in the lower midrange, which makes a bass 'louder' and easier to hear. Skip ahead to 4:50 in this video to see what I mean. Very clever, if I'm hearing what I think I am. I'll bet if you played that with a pick it would be quite loud.
Personally, I think that in certain circumstances playing an AEB fits better if the other guitar players are playing acoustics. I think it just looks better. An electric and small combo probably makes more sense for a number of practical reasons. I'd go acoustic electric and plug into a tiny combo vs bring an electric.
I picked up a Michael Kelly Dragonfly fretless that needed a little work for $200 from a pawn shop. I love it. I think you can get used acoustics around that price through craigslist all the time. I like it better than my Takamine G series acoustic that I got new. They can both hang in there with slim line acoustic electric guitars.. but a full sized dreadnought or 12 string just buries it in volume.
If I were to play in a coffee shop for an acoustic set, I'd bring an acoustic to visually fit in even if I needed to bring a small combo. Nobody will really hear the difference I don't think.
I picked up a Michael Kelly Dragonfly fretless that needed a little work for $200 from a pawn shop. I love it. I think you can get used acoustics around that price through craigslist all the time. I like it better than my Takamine G series acoustic that I got new. They can both hang in there with slim line acoustic electric guitars.. but a full sized dreadnought or 12 string just buries it in volume.
If I were to play in a coffee shop for an acoustic set, I'd bring an acoustic to visually fit in even if I needed to bring a small combo. Nobody will really hear the difference I don't think.
I'm with those (including the OP) who point out that with anything other than the highest quality ABG you will need a combo. However, I wouldn't dismiss the value of an ABG. It has a unique plugged-in tone that does sound very good in acoustic settings. Also, there's alot to be said for a bass that "looks the part". I don't have an ABG, but for "Acoustic" gigs where I don't have my upright, I'd usually bring one of my semi-hollow instruments. The tone isn't that much more "acoustic" than a foam-muted p-bass, but a semi-hollow with f-holes or a violin bass just looks more "acoustic".
My advice would be to go out and play some ABG's plugged in. If you like the tone and can afford one, get it. If you don't, just bring a different bass.
Lastly, you are to be commended for not wanting to take up additional time of performers and stage crew. Not all musicians are so considerate. However, getting the mic right on an ABG will almost always take longer than plugging in and adjusting a small amp that you are accustomed to.
Folks have already explained the physics and design issues, but I would add that IMHO, even the Alien and Thundercheif will likely need amplification if you play with a loud guitarist, multiple guitarists, some precussion, etc. You can only play it so hard before you end up with diminishing returns as the volume increases get less and the loss of tone quality increases because you're just slamming it with your pick.
My advice would be to go out and play some ABG's plugged in. If you like the tone and can afford one, get it. If you don't, just bring a different bass.
Lastly, you are to be commended for not wanting to take up additional time of performers and stage crew. Not all musicians are so considerate. However, getting the mic right on an ABG will almost always take longer than plugging in and adjusting a small amp that you are accustomed to.
Folks have already explained the physics and design issues, but I would add that IMHO, even the Alien and Thundercheif will likely need amplification if you play with a loud guitarist, multiple guitarists, some precussion, etc. You can only play it so hard before you end up with diminishing returns as the volume increases get less and the loss of tone quality increases because you're just slamming it with your pick.
Seriously friend, don't take this as bashing, it's simply from experience. Personally I think with your constraints your best bet would be a small combo - but this is my opinion. Rather than struggle to plug in an amp, take a moment to check out some battery powered options like the Roland or Pignose I mentioned. I've heard good things about both and could be way more workable if there's not an outlet nearby. Good luck!
I'll also suggest looking at a u-bass, the Rondo Hadean acoustic is $150 with active electronics, so you could patch into the PA. They sell out pretty fast. And change the strings to Road Toad Pahoehoe (pah-ho-eh-ho-eh), I found them at a Sam Ash store, or order direct from Road Toad. They sound more like a double bass than an electric, but do take a long time to stretch, days and days.
Link Removed or Amazon.com: Hadean Acoustic Electric Bass Ukulele UKB-22 NM: Musical Instruments
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Link Removed or Amazon.com: Hadean Acoustic Electric Bass Ukulele UKB-22 NM: Musical Instruments
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I have a Michael Kelly Dragon Fly (fretless) 4 string that is nice but I don't play it much. Probably will unload it soon. It has a black maple finish that is really striking, plays well, and sounds good when amplified - as others have said it's not loud enough to hold its own even with a single acoustic guitarist without an amp. I'm focusing more on upright these days in acoustic settings.
Yes, that's definitely a whole other topic. If you clicked on the thread because you thought you had something useful to say on that topic, though, I'm kinda curious to hear it....
I have two AEBs, one a Michael Kelly Dragonfly fretted 5 that is great to look at, but the B is pretty useless and I've had issues with the pickup cutting out. So I picked up a Dean AEB fretless 4 string and replaced the stock roundwounds with flats, and I think the tone (amplified) is amazing, very upright sounding. I got the Dean as a Stupid Deal of the Day, maybe $129 or something? One of my better bargains.
I agree as well... what does work well in a acoustic mix is a fretless (if set up correctly of course).
I looked at one of these in a music store today, and if is sounds anything like it looks, it would be a fine choice. Sexy little thing and light as a feather. I didn't test it out, because I'm not in the market.
I have a BA110, and it is a sexy looking amp with a great Ampeg tone, once you get all the rattles fixed. I'm not bashing on Ampeg, because I am a bit of a fanboy, but come on Ampeg. This amp should never have left the factory. I know this is old news; I should have done a better search.
Live situations , its not going to project, but if you plan on using it outside of live shows situations I'd get it anyways.
I want an ABG personally myself so I'm not tied to the ball and chain (amp). Go outside and practice, get some sun, blah blah.
I want an ABG personally myself so I'm not tied to the ball and chain (amp). Go outside and practice, get some sun, blah blah.
Our guitarist has a Dean fretless ABG. We played around the campfire last week and I had to beat the crap outta the thing in order to be heard over two acoustics. That said, it's one of the louder ABGs I have ever used. I'd also like to add that playing around a campfire probably won't work for metal, therefore, there is no best campfire for metal.
Other acts? Just set up your rig to the side where it won't be in the way of other acts. You could very much set up you amp off to the side. You may need a longer patch cord to reach the amp. But if you really think about it, you don't even need to be on the coffee shop stage. Whether you are playing a stadium rock concert, in a church, or a wedding reception, no one sees you, or cares to acknowledge your presence. Just bring your GK combo, crank it to 11, bro!
Eleven.
