Need amp recommendations for jazz gigs

[Jefenator]

I have found that jazz gigs often happen in really cramped quarters: spaces where a 1x10 or 1x12 cab can squeeze in, but a 2x10 will be really difficult. (Unless you want to show up before everyone else, and oblige the drummer to give up a cymbal.)
With that in mind I consider my small cab to be an essential item. I use an Acme Low-B1. There are lots of cabs & combos out there now in the same league for sizing. (But only a few of those would match the low end.)

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Playing through an amp is not needless and self-indulgent. It's just not all that critical. If you're not in a situation where you can use an amp at home - and that's different for everyone - there's no need to think you're not going to develop or make it as a player. An amp at home is a luxury, not a necessity.

FWIW, I love cranking up my big rig at home - for a few minutes. But I'm much more content with most of my practice to use my high-fidelity recording rig and good headphones that allow me to hear everything clearly, especially when I'm transcribing.

We'll disagree. I played without an amp last night for a gig. It's a different experience. You react differently based on what you hear and don't. That continues to be reaffirmed every time I pick up the instrument as a reaction the environment or moment on many different levels whether at home or at a gig.

 

[BioDriver]

Haha, hard to put out this subject’s fire.
Based on long experience, I recommend 200-300 watt head, and a 12’ speaker if your double bass or EUB is dark sounding, or a 15” if your bass is not too dark sounding. If no drummer, and low volume, a single speaker. Otherwise, two of the same speakers is better. I always have a spare amp and speaker in the car.

All electric. I've made the mistake of owning a DB in a humid environment and since I'm not a pro that headache isn't worth it.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Sure. But whenever this topic has come up over the years, I've noticed that the proportions of those who believe there's some nebulous benefit to practicing with an amp versus those who don't seem to be roughly the same numbers as those who maybe gig once in a while versus those who make a living playing music.

I gig a LOT. This year wil be 40+ gigs. I gigged without an amp last night. As musicians SHOULD BE, they are reactive to what they hear and experience, and you do different things whether at home, or a gig, or with amp, or without, or with earbuds, or whatever. So am I. And I ABSOLUTELY played differently with in ears versus amp in air. I think practicing IN EVERY REASONABLE AND COMMONLY-FOUND CONTEXT *IS* BENIFICIAL, and practicing in no one single context makes up for or negates the experience of not practicing in any other context.

You should learn to play with an amp.
You should learn to play with no amp or sound source whatsoever (unamplified).
You should learn to play with in-ears/earbuds/headphones.
You should learn to play through a killer amp.
You should learn to play through a poopy amp.

You should always take an opportunity to play and learn and develop, and ALL commonly-found experiences of environment and sound (and occasionally the lack therof) ARE beneficial to developing as a bass player. ALL. OF. IT.

 

[SJan3]

Sure. But whenever this topic has come up over the years, I've noticed that the proportions of those who believe there's some nebulous benefit to practicing with an amp versus those who don't seem to be roughly the same numbers as those who maybe gig once in a while versus those who make a living playing music.

Do you teach music? Would you give a lesson without an amp? No, and the obvious reason is so the student can HEAR. So, why deprive yourself of the same? When practicing, especially reading, I need my ears to confirm that I'm playing what's written. And I'd likely have to play harder w/o an amp. This doesn't translate to how I would perform. In Developing dynamics, an amp is pretty critical. I'm not saying that you can't get something done without an amp, but I would find it a needless and unnecessary hurdle.
But, as someone else said, you do you.

 

[bass player 53]

All electric. I've made the mistake of owning a DB in a humid environment and since I'm not a pro that headache isn't worth it.

Ok, well my recommendations are basically the same. I have a ‘73 precision and a 2012 jazz bass. I don’t think 100 watt solid state head is enough. I also get the impression from TB that a cabinet doesn’t really need a tweeter for playing jazz bass lines. A 200-300 small lightweight head and neo cab or two or a small 12” or 15” combo should be more than enough. Maybe an extension cab for the combo. Many of the known manufacturers make good sounding equipment. After a few years, things start to go wrong. Buying used is obviously a way to save money, but new gives you a warranty.

 

[Guitalia]

I gig a LOT. This year wil be 40+ gigs. I gigged without an amp last night. As musicians SHOULD BE, they are reactive to what they hear and experience, and you do different things whether at home, or a gig, or with amp, or without, or with earbuds, or whatever. So am I. And I ABSOLUTELY played differently with in ears versus amp in air. I think practicing IN EVERY REASONABLE AND COMMONLY-FOUND CONTEXT *IS* BENIFICIAL, and practicing in no one single context makes up for or negates the experience of not practicing in any other context.

You should learn to play with an amp.
You should learn to play with no amp or sound source whatsoever (unamplified).
You should learn to play with in-ears/earbuds/headphones.
You should learn to play through a killer amp.
You should learn to play through a poopy amp.

You should always take an opportunity to play and learn and develop, and ALL commonly-found experiences of environment and sound (and occasionally the lack therof) ARE beneficial to developing as a bass player. ALL. OF. IT.

Seems superficially plausible. But nobody I know who's been a working bass player has gone out of their way to complete the stations of your Six Step Program.

On the bright side, anyone who has completed the course won't need to revisit any of the steps, such as that of playing with an amp in a setting where other people are forced to hear it.

 

[Guitalia]

Do you teach music? Would you give a lesson without an amp? No, and the obvious reason is so the student can HEAR. So, why deprive yourself of the same? When practicing, especially reading, I need my ears to confirm that I'm playing what's written. And I'd likely have to play harder w/o an amp. This doesn't translate to how I would perform. In Developing dynamics, an amp is pretty critical. I'm not saying that you can't get something done without an amp, but I would find it a needless and unnecessary hurdle.
But, as someone else said, you do you.

This might be a class thing. I could see using an amp if the only people you're likely to bother are in your house. Some of us grew up in more densely populated settings, where there are people next door and above and below. In the projects where I grew up, some people respected each other's privacy, and some didn't.

 

[SJan3]

This might be a class thing. I could see using an amp if the only people you're likely to bother are in your house. Some of us grew up in more densely populated settings, where there are people next door and above and below. In the projects where I grew up, some people respected each other's privacy, and some didn't.

I don't know. I lived in apts before buying my house. I'm talking about the littlest bleed from the amp. Just something to hear. Turn down the bass frequencies, something...
Or use headphones.
If you can hear well enough w/o an amp, more power to you. I've taken a bass on vacation without an amp and find it frustrating to have to play hard to get enough sound.
But whatever works for you, my friend.

 

[Nebadon2000]

I don't know. I lived in apts before buying my house. I'm talking about the littlest bleed from the amp. Just something to hear. Turn down the bass frequencies, something...
Or use headphones.

Yes;

I must have missed something but who said only practicing Acoustically and never using Headphones or Amp was preferable

I use a Tascam BT-2 CD with headphone setup AT Ath 50X, Sushibox Tube pre and PJB Bid Head now use Headphone with Mesa WD 800;BT 2 has nice features like being able to change Key so if song recorded in Eb dont need to retune, small pitch shifts, looping to play complicated segments, lessening or increase Bass ETC.

So for 'ME' this is much prefered to using amp and cab for playback to practice or learn tracks; with headphone setup I clearly hear nuances

Why I pretty much never needed to play Amp at home when steady gigging; I do you Amp live [not just headphone] now maybe once every couple months with Drum Machine

 

[SJan3]

Yes;

I must have missed something but who said only practicing Acoustically and never using Headphones or Amp was preferable

I use a Tascam BT-2 CD with headphone setup AT Ath 50X, Sushibox Tube pre and PJB Bid Head now use Headphone with Mesa WD 800;BT 2 has nice features like being able to change Key so if song recorded in Eb dont need to retune, small pitch shifts, looping to play complicated segments, lessening or increase Bass ETC.

So for 'ME' this is much prefered to using amp and cab for playback to practice or learn tracks; with headphone setup I clearly hear nuances

Why I pretty much never needed to play Amp at home when steady gigging; I do you Amp live [not just headphone] now maybe once every couple months with Drum Machine

Wow Neb,
You're much more technically savvy than I. I'd love one of those looper things. And headphones are great. Maybe I missed something but I'm hearing people say they practice with the bass alone, no amplification at all out of preference. That seems challenging to me. Unless the instrument is particularly resonant, most solid body basses are not, I use a small Ampeg BA110v2 combo and can turn it down to a whisper.
But whatever works for others.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Seems superficially plausible. But nobody I know who's been a working bass player has gone out of their way to complete the stations of your Six Step Program.

On the bright side, anyone who has completed the course won't need to revisit any of the steps, such as that of playing with an amp in a setting where other people are forced to hear it.

Uh huh.

I advocate an all-of-the-options" approach because it works. Because I get first call hired for all kind of gigs with all kinds of sound situations. Because it works.

But you do you.

 

[Guitalia]

The number of posts by people who say that they regularly practice while playing through an amp is surprising. I'd have thought they'd represent a tiny minority.

 

[SJan3]

The number of posts by people who say that they regularly practice while playing through an amp is surprising. I'd have thought they'd represent a tiny minority.

That's what low power combo amps are for. Practice. I can't cut a gig with my 1x10" 40 watt combo unless playing with acoustic instruments,
but it's perfect for practice.

 

[Nebadon2000]

That's what low power combo amps are for. Practice. I can't cut a gig with my 1x10" 40 watt combo unless playing with acoustic instruments,
but it's perfect for practice.

When I started playing in 1975 my practice Amp (in basement of parents home on Long Island)
was SVT with 8x10 and 18" Cerwin Vega folded horn(also gigging Amp)

Fast forward to me be married with 7 year old Son: my Father bought my Son Drum Set for Christmas when he brought it by he had a big smile on his face saying revenge is sweet
It was only then I realized how annoying it must of been for my Family me booming away in the basement

 

[SJan3]

When I started playing in 1975 my practice Amp (in basement of parents home on Long Island)
was SVT with 8x10 and 18" Cerwin Vega folded horn(also gigging Amp)

Fast forward to me be married with 7 year old Son: my Father bought my Son Drum Set for Christmas when he brought it by he had a big smile on his face saying revenge is sweet
It was only then I realized how annoying it must of been for my Family me booming away in the basement

Oh, yea. I had my band in the basement as a teenager with my Acoustic 360. Lots of noise, only topped by my L88 Camaro with open headers. My neighbors were not happy.

 

[Guitalia]

When I started playing in 1975 my practice Amp (in basement of parents home on Long Island)
was SVT with 8x10 and 18" Cerwin Vega folded horn(also gigging Amp)

Fast forward to me be married with 7 year old Son: my Father bought my Son Drum Set for Christmas when he brought it by he had a big smile on his face saying revenge is sweet
It was only then I realized how annoying it must of been for my Family me booming away in the basement

Oh, yea. I had my band in the basement as a teenager with my Acoustic 360. Lots of noise, only topped by my L88 Camaro with open headers. My neighbors were not happy.

Interesting. Maybe whether people practice with an amp or not depends not so much on a perceived need for learning the nuances of playing with an amp but on whether they grew up in single-family housing or in apartments.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Interesting. Maybe whether people practice with an amp or not depends not so much on a perceived need for learning the nuances of playing with an amp but on whether they grew up in single-family housing or in apartments.

If when I started learning had the Headphone setup I have been using last few decades was available then I could have been living on a Farm and still choose headphone setup for practice and learning songs

I had plenty of time with Amp during Rehearsal and eventually Gig's

Yes if not working with band when started I would have done and did at first experiment with Amp setup but again most of my work would have been with headphone setup

 

[SJan3]

Interesting. Maybe whether people practice with an amp or not depends not so much on a perceived need for learning the nuances of playing with an amp but on whether they grew up in single-family housing or in apartments.

It could have been an influence but I grew up with a musical father who played sax, clarinet, flute, piccolo and oboe. All acoustic instruments. No way to mute them. Even my dog howled when he practiced. And he had an amp for certain gigs. He even modeled the Varitone amp back in the day. So, amps were a part of our culture. Headphones were big, bulky things. Uncomfortable on a hot day and used strictly for recording and playback.

 

[turf3]

Well, leaving aside the question of whether to practice with amp, without amp, or sometimes with and sometimes without; the OP has correctly identified that small group (or big-band, for that matter) jazz gigs are most commonly arranged with amps for electronic instruments, and the group on stage balance their own sound. If PA reinforcement is needed, it's going to be just for soft horns (say, flute) and vocals (if present) and this too is usually balanced ad hoc. Very few jazz groups playing in the local pub, winery, etc., are going to have the full ampless IEM setup, which of course with horns is another issue, since those instruments emit very large amounts of sound. Rock bands where you've only got one instrument that emits a lot of sound (drum set) and everything else is either nearly inaudible (electric guitars basses and keys) or rather soft (vocals) are a different ball of wax from a jazz band where the trumpet trombone and saxophone are all instruments suited for performance in outdoor marching bands, and really don't need any PA reinforcement at all, not if you're playing any place smaller than the Roseland Ballroom.

For jazz bands, I believe less PA reinforcement is almost always better, with of course the exception of vocals. In this setting, electric-bass-plus-amp and electric-guitar-plus-amp and electronic-keyboard-plus-amp are the instruments, on stage, similar to the saxophone, and they participate in balancing the sound on stage the same way as the horns do. Hopefully.