Need amp recommendations for jazz gigs

[turf3]

I guess it seems like you're handing your sound over to someone else. I mean, I know that happens anytime you don't have the amp bare on stage, any time the bass is going through a PA in any way; but I grew up playing instruments where the sound was the sound, you worked for it, and then the purpose of amplification was to take that sound out front at a larger scale. The idea of just giving Sumgai a signal and hoping it ends up sounding like you want it to, seems a bit too detached for me to be comfortable with.

 

[ValerieK]

I guess it seems like you're handing your sound over to someone else. I mean, I know that happens anytime you don't have the amp bare on stage, any time the bass is going through a PA in any way; but I grew up playing instruments where the sound was the sound, you worked for it, and then the purpose of amplification was to take that sound out front at a larger scale. The idea of just giving Sumgai a signal and hoping it ends up sounding like you want it to, seems a bit too detached for me to be comfortable with.

Usually I'm the one who sets up and runs the PA while we play. That work is happening whether or not I have an amp - all an amp adds is more stuff to carry and deal with - that and they look cool sometimes.

You're right though, my sound gal is terrible! I wish I could afford to hire someone, it's stressful and hurts my performance.

 

[BioDriver]

So Anyway, 200 people at a Jazz Gig.
You know the rule...pictures or it didn't happen.

No advice on an amp, but Good Luck to you!

I just went with max venue size

 

[Joebone]

Why do you think it's necessary to protect your "image" by saying you're not a fan of MarkBass like other chirpers on talkbass?
There are Countless MarkBass amps, speakers, combos being played by some of the greatest jazz players.
So spare me and other users of the product. If you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing.
That said, I agree that Genzler is an intelligent choice for a combo amp although, if you read the OP's initial post, Genzler is way above his budget.

Dude, what's your point? How am I "protecting" an "image," and what precisely is that "image?" I've owned the 112P combo...twice. I like the sound of the amp. I think the speaker sounds like cardboard. I found something I like better and moved on. I also acknowledge that other players can sound good through that amp. I note that the Genz Benz folks go above and beyond to keep their stuff operational - which, if I correctly recall various "chirps" over the years, is not a Mark Bass strong suit (yeah, they're from Italy, and if my recollection is off, please demonstrate otherwise). I never say that folks should not sample or own Mark Bass stuff and describe the 112P as a "very useful unit." I really have trouble understanding your point. (OTOH, I note your vintage and Hartt degree, and suspect we may know people in common...)

 

[Paul New]

I can understand practicing without an amp, some of the time, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around not even owning an amplifier and playing electric bass. It's half of the instrument.

John Patitucci says he never practices electric bass with an amp and never has.

 

[SJan3]

Dude, what's your point? How am I "protecting" an "image," and what precisely is that "image?" I've owned the 112P combo...twice. I like the sound of the amp. I think the speaker sounds like cardboard. I found something I like better and moved on. I also acknowledge that other players can sound good through that amp. I note that the Genz Benz folks go above and beyond to keep their stuff operational - which, if I correctly recall various "chirps" over the years, is not a Mark Bass strong suit (yeah, they're from Italy, and if my recollection is off, please demonstrate otherwise). I never say that folks should not sample or own Mark Bass stuff and describe the 112P as a "very useful unit." I really have trouble understanding your point. (OTOH, I note your vintage and Hartt degree, and suspect we may know people in common...)

Joe, I hear you and in rereading your post, you were pretty fair. I had a "moment" as it seems fashionable for talkbass to bash MarkBass. Too often some canned and largely unwarranted criticism about their gear. I see some of the most prominent world class players using MarkBass. I've used their gear in one shape or another since '09.
I also use Aguilar and Mesa so I'm not sold out to MarkBass.
I guess it was the cumulative effect of hearing constant and often unwarranted criticism that got my goat. I apologize for lotting you in with others. It was unfair.

 

[Joebone]

Joe, I hear you and in rereading your post, you were pretty fair. I had a "moment" as it seems fashionable for talkbass to bash MarkBass. Too often some canned and largely unwarranted criticism about their gear. I see some of the most prominent world class players using MarkBass. I've used their gear in one shape or another since '09.
I also use Aguilar and Mesa so I'm not sold out to MarkBass.
I guess it was the cumulative effect of hearing constant and often unwarranted criticism that got my goat. I apologize for lotting you in with others. It was unfair.

Apology accepted! I am on TB a lot, but generally tracking threads that are of specific interest so I don't have a lot of recent data points on MB stuff, yet I do recall what was in the air when my review of TB material was broader. And I was so charmed by the 112P concept that I gave it two separate tries...At the time I was more in the home practice mode, or playing with acoustic musicians when playing out, so you could argue that my assessment did not include enough time playing off of full drum kits and electric guitars. As for your other stuff - if I had a roadie I'd have an Aguilar 751 - hands down the best bass sound I've ever heard, although I've not played through it (and could not get a handle on the Tonehammer EQ strategy). Love the Mesa subway stuff - an early adopter on the 800+, and used the WD800, but ultimately got better results with 9.2 series Genz Benz into my inefficient fearless cabinets. As for Hartt...a sax/composition student named John Reading? A trumpeter named Arthur Pugh?

 

[HelpImaRock]

I tend to stay away from combos because very few of them have front facing controls. My solution is a Mesa D350 into a Schroder 12L+ Mini.

I only plug in for practice when I need to learn a song.

 

[SJan3]

Apology accepted! I am on TB a lot, but generally tracking threads that are of specific interest so I don't have a lot of recent data points on MB stuff, yet I do recall what was in the air when my review of TB material was broader. And I was so charmed by the 112P concept that I gave it two separate tries...At the time I was more in the home practice mode, or playing with acoustic musicians when playing out, so you could argue that my assessment did not include enough time playing off of full drum kits and electric guitars. As for your other stuff - if I had a roadie I'd have an Aguilar 751 - hands down the best bass sound I've ever heard, although I've not played through it (and could not get a handle on the Tonehammer EQ strategy). Love the Mesa subway stuff - an early adopter on the 800+, and used the WD800, but ultimately got better results with 9.2 series Genz Benz into my inefficient fearless cabinets. As for Hartt...a sax/composition student named John Reading? A trumpeter named Arthur Pugh?

Thanks for being understanding!
Sure, the 121p has it's limits but plenty for an acoustic gig or an even tempered drummer. I have a pretty rare MarkBass 121HR cab. It can be tilted into monitor position but I use it straight up with various heads. Unlike the CMD121p, this cab has a 1" voice coil tweeter. A little sweeter top end than the piezo.
The Aguilar AG700 sounds great thru this cab but I recently picked up an SL112 cab as it has a bit more girth in the low end. I also had headaches with a Tonehammer 500 amp and sold it but later purchased a Tonehammer 350 for a second go around.
There is a very thorough post by @Eublet that really unlocks the secret to the Tonehammer preamp. Worth reading for any Tonehammer user.
DB751 is amazing but I won't pretend to want to carry it. I also picked up a Subway D350 as it is dead silent at idle. Thermally cooled so no fan to make noise. Nice for home practice and surprisingly powerful for the gigs I've played. These days I don't need a lot of power. A 350 watt head is plenty.
I love the AG700 but it's dual fans are noisy. Very distracting for home practice so the Little Mesa gets the call.
P.S. I'm a Hartford Conservatory grad, not to be confused with Hartt School although were in pretty close proximity so we had our circle of players. I'm not familiar with your friends. Gosh, so many years ago! I'm 70 now and have lost touch with most everyone at school. You're in California now?
My dad lived in Oceanside until his passing. He was a woodwind player, mostly sax, clarinet and flute.
Ok, I've taken enough your time. Thanks again and chat some other time.

 

[Guitalia]

Well, I've been playing acoustic instruments for decades and only recently started playing the solid body electric bass, which puts out - well, pretty much no real sound. Certainly to figure out technical patterns, you can play with no amplification and it won't disturb your neighbors, but I was always led to believe that the complete instrument consists of the guitar AND the amplifier and that you play the set. Kind of like a violin and its bow - it's the two of them that make the instrument.

Maybe my bias comes from spending pretty much my entire life playing instruments whose unamplified sound IS their sound (Piano, flute, saxophone, upright bass).

FWIW, Eddie Van Halen's wife said in an interview that he did most of his practicing while lounging on the couch, watching TV. My guess is that most people who practice for hours a day don't use an amp while practicing.

 

[DeepHz]

I would look for a Genz Benz Shuttle and pair it with cab of your choice. I have the 6.0 and Love it for what you are looking for. And they are incredibly inexpensive!!

 

[Nebadon2000]

I guess it was the cumulative effect of hearing constant and often unwarranted criticism that got my goat. I apologize for lotting you in with others. It was unfair.

Yes there is a 'Mob' type smear campaign here on Markbass; They never miss a chance for negative comment even when someone post a NAD for Markbass

 

[Nebadon2000]

FWIW, Eddie Van Halen's wife said in an interview that he did most of his practicing while lounging on the couch, watching TV. My guess is that most people who practice for hours a day don't use an amp while practicing.

I also did a lot of practicing on Couch still do

Ever since in early 80's when I got nice Headphone/CD setup never played my Amp at home to the relief of my Family

Even though for last few years I have not Gigged/Rehearsed I still use my amp very very little [Headphones or on Couch ] having Mesa WD 800 and Subway 1x15

 

[Luther]

Greetings and salutations, it's been a while, hasn't it?

As I've started playing out again, I've gravitated more towards smaller jazz venues. Think 200 people max with a piano, drums, horns, and occasional guitar. So a far cry removed from the rock and ska gigs I used to do.

I'd been ampless for a while and that worked great for the time. My Mesa DI could go FOH and it sounded awesome, so no need to worry about lugging around a half stack anymore. However, new scene and genre, and FOH no longer exists.

Having been absent from amp shopping for a while, and knowing I absolutely do not need a Mesa Subway or similar for these types of gigs, I turn to you. My basses are passive and I'm not needing to fill up a bar or play over guitars or rock drummers. I know I basically need something to play over horns, but am absolutely lost when shopping for a good jazz amp that fits the bill. Searches turned up old threads that were mostly pre-COVID so any advice/updates you could provide would be much appreciated.

ETA: I’d like to keep it under about $700 if at all possible and prefer used

I don't know, but you'll definitely need a Jazz Bass.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I can understand practicing without an amp, some of the time, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around not even owning an amplifier and playing electric bass. It's half of the instrument.

I would certainly say that playing with an amplifier in an acoustic space and creating a sound in that environment by player reaction to that environment and sound, is certainly an important skill. Perhaps even a critical one.

 

[SJan3]

Yes there is a 'Mob' type smear campaign here on Markbass; They never miss a chance for negative comment even when someone post a NAD for Markbass

It certainly seems that way. It's like picking on the little kid on the block because they don't like how he's dressed. That said, I could have been more diplomatic. The "Italian" in me was stirred into a Scotch induced rage.@Joebone wasn't unreasonable and so I apologized. But I wish more people would approach products with an open mind unless they've had personal experience, good or bad.
Joe had personal experience so he was certainly qualified to opine.

 

[BioDriver]

It certainly seems that way. It's like picking on the little kid on the block because they don't like how he's dressed. That said, I could have been more diplomatic. The "Italian" in me was stirred into a Scotch induced rage.@Joebone wasn't unreasonable and so I apologized. But I wish more people would approach products with an open mind unless they've had personal experience, good or bad.
Joe had personal experience so he was certainly qualified to opine.

I honestly might just get a Markbass combo to load into the back of my Alfa

 

[SJan3]

I honestly might just get a Markbass combo to load into the back of my Alfa

Is your Alfa yellow??

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Well, I've been playing acoustic instruments for decades and only recently started playing the solid body electric bass, which puts out - well, pretty much no real sound. Certainly to figure out technical patterns, you can play with no amplification and it won't disturb your neighbors, but I was always led to believe that the complete instrument consists of the guitar AND the amplifier and that you play the set. Kind of like a violin and its bow - it's the two of them that make the instrument.

Maybe my bias comes from spending pretty much my entire life playing instruments whose unamplified sound IS their sound (Piano, flute, saxophone, upright bass).

If you want to develop a great foundational sound on electric, turn off the amp and and learn how to feel the instrument without an amp. I especially recommend this for fretless. You'll be much more in tune with the response of the instrument, how it resonates in your hands and against your body, how the notes in different places respond, etc.

It requires you to focus and hone in on the instrument in a way that playing amplified doesn't do.

 

[Guitalia]

I would certainly say that playing with an amplifier in an acoustic space and creating a sound in that environment by player reaction to that environment and sound, is certainly an important skill. Perhaps even a critical one.

What about (guessing) hundreds or maybe thousands of us who have never practiced with an amp (or with a preamp and headphones) and yet have made a lot of money playing in steadily working bands?

Maybe this is a small-town versus big-city thing. I've spent many years in cities where annoying neighbors by using an amp would just be self-indulgence on my part. Especially since I know that how an amp sounds playing solo in a living room or basement has zero to do with how it will sound in a big venue with other amps and drums and a PA.