Need amp recommendations for jazz gigs

[bass player 53]

If you’re still looking, a combo GK
MB 150 S or E on Reverb is around $700. There are Polytone III’s for around $400. A second matching cabinet for these is not so easy to find. The GK
MB 200 with a 12” or 15” used cab is
in the $700 range too. Same with the
Genz Benz Shuttle heads. Some of the other suggestions seem a bit pricey.

 

[turf3]

Well, if there's no reason to practice with an amp, and if its sound can't be predicted, why are you all so obsessed with how your amps sound?

 

[Guitalia]

If you want to develop a great foundational sound on electric, turn off the amp and and learn how to feel the instrument without an amp. I especially recommend this for fretless. You'll be much more in tune with the response of the instrument, how it resonates in your hands and against your body, how the notes in different places respond, etc.

It requires you to focus and hone in on the instrument in a way that playing amplified doesn't do.

Great point. Use of amplification can obscure nuances and lead to developing bad habits.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Well, if there's no reason to practice with an amp, and if its sound can't be predicted, why are you all so obsessed with how your amps sound?

Oh, I get it! You're resorting to the ol' reductio ad absurdum tactic to prove how important practicing at home with an amp is. Clever.

 

[turf3]

Oh, I get it! You're resorting to the ol' reductio ad absurdum tactic to prove how important practicing at home with an amp is. Clever.

Basically.

Anyway, I've pushed this one further than I intended to, and certainly futher than the content justifies. I'll drop out of the discussion of ampless bass players now.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Basically.

Anyway, I've pushed this one further than I intended to, and certainly futher than the content justifies. I'll drop out of the discussion of ampless bass players now.

There's certainly nothing wrong with practicing at home through an amp. I've done it for almost 40 years. I have an amp ready go at all times. I also have a headphone rig ready to go at all times. But a lot of my sound (as determined by the ADSR envelope created by my hands) came from years of playing unplugged in the dark in the middle of the night when my kids were little. You start to notice things about the particular instrument in your hands when you do that.

It's no different than learning how to really get the most out of a particular upright or any other acoustic instrument, except it happens at much lower volumes.

 

[fdeck]

I do almost all of my practicing -- electric or upright -- without an amp. Whether it's acoustic or electric, it's different on stage than at home. But if one practices and performs enough, the relationship between the two becomes intuitive, especially if they've developed a consistent amp setup and tone quality that they're satisfied with.

Once in a while I plug in my electric, to see if some particular passage sounds good enough amplified, or if I need to practice more. Then I unplug it and practice more.

I play mostly jazz, and I'd be satisfied with going amp-less if it could be done right. But economics and practicality work against it. For one thing, bands don't stick together as cohesive units, and it would be hard to figure out who needs to own what gear. It wouldn't make sense for every player to own a full PA, or to invest in the PA's for the multiple bands that they play in. Being self-amplified means that my gear expenses and logistics are fully under my control. Also, jazz groups often get our work by being able to play at lower volume in smaller venues with limited space. It's rare to hear a band with PA that's not too loud.

For another thing, I believe in the "chamber music" approach, where good players intuitively adjust their stage volume, and it sounds good in the audience. A string quartet has no problem doing this.

A basic amp like a 12" Fender or GK combo, would work just fine. I've used those amps. Beyond that, it's a matter of taste. You can also use a smaller amp if you know what to expect at your gigs.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

My suggestion isn't anywhere near the OP's budget, but I've used a Trickfish 110 cab on many scores of small gigs like the OP described, with upright and electric - including 4, 5, 6 string basses. Most often with a band, though not so many horns. If the 110 wasn't enough, I've also used a Trickfish 112 on probably more gigs than the 110. My choice of amp is usually a Trickfish Bullhead 1k, or an Epifani Piccolo 555, but I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Trickfish Bullhead Mini. There was no Mini or BH.5k when I bought my 1k.

 

[wgc]

I'm surprised I haven't seen Ampeg mentioned. I have always really liked the B-15, though it's nowhere near the $700 price. (From what I have seen lately, the prices for B-15s, especially the older tube versions, are pretty much insane.) But Ampeg does have a couple of combo amps in the price range. There is a 1-15 200W and a 2-10 that is 150W (if I recall correctly.) I would think these would definitely be worth looking into. I have played through a couple of the newer Ampeg amps, but only for a quick test drive in a store. They sounded pretty good from what I recall. However, I don't know how quality is for Ampeg these days. Anybody else have info on that?

On an only partly related note, some years ago, I played an Acoustic 370 head w/2 Kustom 200 speaker cabinets (I won't mention how many years ago...). In case nobody is familiar with the Kustom 200 bass cabinets, they are 2-15 ported cabinets. The Acoustic 370 head is about 275 Watts RMS. My main reason for mentioning this is that I saw above somewhere a couple mentioned 'only 350 watts' or perhaps 'only' 200 watts would be enough. When I was playing with a moderately loud top-40 band I never had this amp over 3, with no bass into the PA. And this was with crappy CTS speakers. Have amp manufacturers gone completely away from RMS ratings? Or am I missing something with the crazy high wattage amps? By the way, this Acoustic/Kustom setup had mostly 2 advantages: it was loud and could put out more bottom end that you could possibly want.

Regarding Acoustic bass amps in general, I have played on a couple of the newer ones. Just my opinion, of course, but I really couldn't get any sort of sound I liked.

 

[SJan3]

I'm surprised I haven't seen Ampeg mentioned. I have always really liked the B-15, though it's nowhere near the $700 price. (From what I have seen lately, the prices for B-15s, especially the older tube versions, are pretty much insane.) But Ampeg does have a couple of combo amps in the price range. There is a 1-15 200W and a 2-10 that is 150W (if I recall correctly.) I would think these would definitely be worth looking into. I have played through a couple of the newer Ampeg amps, but only for a quick test drive in a store. They sounded pretty good from what I recall. However, I don't know how quality is for Ampeg these days. Anybody else have info on that?

On an only partly related note, some years ago, I played an Acoustic 370 head w/2 Kustom 200 speaker cabinets (I won't mention how many years ago...). In case nobody is familiar with the Kustom 200 bass cabinets, they are 2-15 ported cabinets. The Acoustic 370 head is about 275 Watts RMS. My main reason for mentioning this is that I saw above somewhere a couple mentioned 'only 350 watts' or perhaps 'only' 200 watts would be enough. When I was playing with a moderately loud top-40 band I never had this amp over 3, with no bass into the PA. And this was with crappy CTS speakers. Have amp manufacturers gone completely away from RMS ratings? Or am I missing something with the crazy high wattage amps? By the way, this Acoustic/Kustom setup had mostly 2 advantages: it was loud and could put out more bottom end that you could possibly want.

Regarding Acoustic bass amps in general, I have played on a couple of the newer ones. Just my opinion, of course, but I really couldn't get any sort of sound I liked.

An Ampeg B-15 by today's standards is a very impractical, heavy (appx 65lbs), low powered (25 watt) amp. Still has a home in the studio but much better choices are available for travel. That said, I agree the new Ampeg combos are very nice and likely to be reliable as they are now owned by Yamaha.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

What about (guessing) hundreds or maybe thousands of us who have never practiced with an amp (or with a preamp and headphones) and yet have made a lot of money playing in steadily working bands?

Maybe this is a small-town versus big-city thing. I've spent many years in cities where annoying neighbors by using an amp would just be self-indulgence on my part. Especially since I know that how an amp sounds playing solo in a living room or basement has zero to do with how it will sound in a big venue with other amps and drums and a PA.

I'd simply say without malice or derision that the opportunity to interact in a performance environment with an amp in an acoustic space is or can be a very rewarding one, that I think is important to experience, whether you choose to have it, or not, and even when you cannot choose it. It remains a valid continuous feedback loop of playing with gear in a space, acoustically, and responding to it. It's not about volume, per se. It's about the interaction of all components.

 

[Guitalia]

I'd simply say without malice or derision that the opportunity to interact in a performance environment with an amp in an acoustic space is or can be a very rewarding one, that I think is important to experience, whether you choose to have it, or not, and even when you cannot choose it. It remains a valid continuous feedback loop of playing with gear in a space, acoustically, and responding to it. It's not about volume, per se. It's about the interaction of all components.

Of course. I'd probably interact in a performance environment with an amp in an acoustic space once in a while if it weren't for the knowledge that I'd be needlessly annoying people in nearby acoustic spaces.

Speaking from experience, not that I didn't already know. I share a wall with a neighbor who decided to learn bass a while ago. I endured it, knowing he would likely get bored and give up eventually, which he did. But it was never not grating on my nerves. Like living next door to a dog that barks non-stop.

This topic is a bit ironic, given that so many working bands have gone ampless and use IEMs exclusively. Which demonstrates even more clearly that playing amplified at home is needless self-indulgence.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Of course. I'd probably interact in a performance environment with an amp in an acoustic space once in a while if it weren't for the knowledge that I'd be needlessly annoying people in nearby acoustic spaces.

Speaking from experience, not that I didn't already know. I share a wall with a neighbor who decided to learn bass a while ago. I endured it, knowing he would likely get bored and give up eventually, which he did. But it was never not grating on my nerves. Like living next door to a dog that barks non-stop.

This topic is a bit ironic, given that so many working bands have gone ampless and use IEMs exclusively. Which demonstrates even more clearly that playing amplified at home is needless self-indulgence.

I just don't agree at all that playing amplified at home is a needless self indulgence for a number of reasons. But you do you.

 

[Guitalia]

I just don't agree at all that playing amplified at home is a needless self indulgence for a number of reasons. But you do you.

Sure. But whenever this topic has come up over the years, I've noticed that the proportions of those who believe there's some nebulous benefit to practicing with an amp versus those who don't seem to be roughly the same numbers as those who maybe gig once in a while versus those who make a living playing music.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I just don't agree at all that playing amplified at home is a needless self indulgence for a number of reasons. But you do you.

Playing through an amp is not needless and self-indulgent. It's just not all that critical. If you're not in a situation where you can use an amp at home - and that's different for everyone - there's no need to think you're not going to develop or make it as a player. An amp at home is a luxury, not a necessity.

FWIW, I love cranking up my big rig at home - for a few minutes. But I'm much more content with most of my practice to use my high-fidelity recording rig and good headphones that allow me to hear everything clearly, especially when I'm transcribing.

 

[Zigmundfloyd]

I practiced electric bass without an amp for many years and all it did for me was create sloppy habits as I was playing too hard trying to hear myself. It became very noticeable practicing with a metronome, Seth Thomas wind up anyone? At one point I had to relearn right hand technique both with fingers and a pick and learn to let the amp do the work it is intended for. So, with all due respect, for me the amp is part of the equation.

 

[SJan3]

I practiced electric bass without an amp for many years and all it did for me was create sloppy habits as I was playing too hard trying to hear myself. It became very noticeable practicing with a metronome, Seth Thomas wind up anyone? At one point I had to relearn right hand technique both with fingers and a pick and learn to let the amp do the work it is intended for. So, with all due respect, for me the amp is part of the equation.

Totally agree. And what ears some of these people have! I have a hard time hearing pitch up on the dusty end of my E string without amplification.
A Precision bass with flats is not very articulate in the upper register on the E string. A small practice amp is essential in my opinion. It has a volume control, ya know.

 

[Nebadon2000]

I practiced electric bass without an amp for many years and all it did for me was create sloppy habits as I was playing too hard trying to hear myself. It became very noticeable practicing with a metronome, Seth Thomas wind up anyone? At one point I had to relearn right hand technique both with fingers and a pick and learn to let the amp do the work it is intended for. So, with all due respect, for me the amp is part of the equation.

Headphones work just as well;

I did when I first started back in BC use Amp for practice and of course rehearsals;[no other real choice] Also know how to differentiate my technique from playing acoustically and Amplified with either Amp or Headphones; even back when I first started many times having to practice Acoustically not to annoy my family and relaxation

Many players may play acoustically on Couch like me for passing time or my own entertainment in a casual manor which may include sorta practicing Bass lines I have learned; I actually enjoy the sound acoustically

But those 'many players' mentioned use Headphone Setup for learning/practicing Songs which is Amplification and also equal to IEM's

Maybe if you started learning only practicing acoustically with no band rehearsals; The problems you had may appear

If you prefer to use Amp at home when practicing Great

 

[BioDriver]

So, uh, I guess anything with a 1x12 and at least 100 watts will do?

 

[bass player 53]

So, uh, I guess anything with a 1x12 and at least 100 watts will do?

So, uh, I guess anything with a 1x12 and at least 100 watts will do?

Haha, hard to put out this subject’s fire.
Based on long experience, I recommend 200-300 watt head, and a 12’ speaker if your double bass or EUB is dark sounding, or a 15” if your bass is not too dark sounding. If no drummer, and low volume, a single speaker. Otherwise, two of the same speakers is better. I always have a spare amp and speaker in the car.