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- Thread starter Rip Topaz
- Start date
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
Lol. Already had those kind of days, where the only thing that went right was coming out of the shop alive!!
Mikeyswood: thanks for the offer, but I think I'm gonna start with learning to hammer the frets. I find I learn better by doing it by hand, then adding the machines later. My first two basses were made completely with hand tools. After that, I decided it was time to invest in better, more suitable tools for the job.
Edit: Ok maybe I should have read before I spoke. I'll be looking more intently into an arbor press setup. Of course, being the neurotic maniac that I am, I'll be sure to learn both methods, but I think I'll be starting by putting together a press area in the shop.
Edit: Ok maybe I should have read before I spoke. I'll be looking more intently into an arbor press setup. Of course, being the neurotic maniac that I am, I'll be sure to learn both methods, but I think I'll be starting by putting together a press area in the shop.
mikeyswood
Inactive
I do not. Yet. On the "immediate future" list. So far, got a jointer, thickness planer, belt/disc sander, scroll saw, two routers, dremel and many hand tools. When I first mentioned building guitars, my dad (I'm 40,btw) got me started with some of his tools, but the bulk I bought myself. A few years back an injury took me out of the workforce. Now, several surgeries later, I've used the resulting settlement to try to give myself something to do with the 15-20 minutes a day that I can actually function. Bad back injury. No more serious stage time for this bassist. However, I can't just sit and decompose, so I decided to learn a new skill and work at my own pace.
When I had my first back surgery last year, I was given a Wishbass as a gift. It required a substantial amount of work to make it playable, and that experience was enough to start the interest in building. I've built several (6 and 7 in the works now) basses since then, really noticing the difference between the first two (all hand tools) and my present work. Having the proper tools for the job means that for as much as possible, I need to reduce the physical labor part of building. No CNC, just using tools meant for each job.
I've been lucky in the aspect that I was able to purchase the big tools, like the bandsaw, and get decent models of each. However, my shop is in my garage, so as often as I could I chose benchtop models. The only huge tool being the bandsaw. I splurged on the Grizzly 14", with all the bells and whistles. I love that saw!!
Since developing this interest in building, Talkbass has been such a huge help that there is no way to thank everyone. Sure, you get the occasional troll, but for the most part, everyone here has been very helpful and supportive. (thanks tb!!)
So you see, when I first started, I didn't expect much more than a hobby, and being a hack at best. It turns out I'm actually getting kind good at this, mostly attributed to my obsession with learning every aspect of building. I've learned at my own pace, but since I've been laid up at home with no day job to distract, progress has been quick.
Fretwork is something that I've planned on doing, but honestly was a little intimidated until I started reading more on it the last few days. Nothing I can't handle.
Sorry I babbled. It's 4:15am and I'm awake as usual from pain. Not asking for sympathy, just explaining my situation.
Thanks for everyones help, and I'm sure I'll be at this for many years to come. I've developed such a love for creating basses that it's very nice to have as a distraction to the pain, and amazing physical and mental therapy.
When I had my first back surgery last year, I was given a Wishbass as a gift. It required a substantial amount of work to make it playable, and that experience was enough to start the interest in building. I've built several (6 and 7 in the works now) basses since then, really noticing the difference between the first two (all hand tools) and my present work. Having the proper tools for the job means that for as much as possible, I need to reduce the physical labor part of building. No CNC, just using tools meant for each job.
I've been lucky in the aspect that I was able to purchase the big tools, like the bandsaw, and get decent models of each. However, my shop is in my garage, so as often as I could I chose benchtop models. The only huge tool being the bandsaw. I splurged on the Grizzly 14", with all the bells and whistles. I love that saw!!
Since developing this interest in building, Talkbass has been such a huge help that there is no way to thank everyone. Sure, you get the occasional troll, but for the most part, everyone here has been very helpful and supportive. (thanks tb!!)
So you see, when I first started, I didn't expect much more than a hobby, and being a hack at best. It turns out I'm actually getting kind good at this, mostly attributed to my obsession with learning every aspect of building. I've learned at my own pace, but since I've been laid up at home with no day job to distract, progress has been quick.
Fretwork is something that I've planned on doing, but honestly was a little intimidated until I started reading more on it the last few days. Nothing I can't handle.
Sorry I babbled. It's 4:15am and I'm awake as usual from pain. Not asking for sympathy, just explaining my situation.
Thanks for everyones help, and I'm sure I'll be at this for many years to come. I've developed such a love for creating basses that it's very nice to have as a distraction to the pain, and amazing physical and mental therapy.
one trick i do with my students is to clamp a piece of steel bar stock 1"x1"x8" to the newly fretted edge of the fingerboard (we fret prior to neck shaping) so that a half-dozen or so frets are held totally level against the fingerboard surface: then we dribble thin CA glue into the slots to ostensibly lock them in place and leave the bar in place for 20 min or so. This not only locks in the frets, but theyre pretty much level.
we also use the bar stock and a hammer to tap the frets across the whole fingerboard after installation. another nifty method for making sure the frets are level across the whole playing surface.
you don't need (and in fact shouldn't use) lots of clamp pressure. the goal is to lock the frets as level as they can be. After the fingerboard has been locked in in this fashion, there is minimal fret leveling and re-crowning to be done Surprisingly, I find that the high school kids do a great job of cleaning up and de-burring the fret ends.
the biggest rookie mistake i see made is over hammering the frets: then the wood gets mushy from too much flex of the tang againt the wood and it won't hold easily. That's the beauty of the fret arbor: the frets come out very consistently pressed in.
hope this is helpful.
make sure to have fun!
Karl
we also use the bar stock and a hammer to tap the frets across the whole fingerboard after installation. another nifty method for making sure the frets are level across the whole playing surface.
you don't need (and in fact shouldn't use) lots of clamp pressure. the goal is to lock the frets as level as they can be. After the fingerboard has been locked in in this fashion, there is minimal fret leveling and re-crowning to be done Surprisingly, I find that the high school kids do a great job of cleaning up and de-burring the fret ends.
the biggest rookie mistake i see made is over hammering the frets: then the wood gets mushy from too much flex of the tang againt the wood and it won't hold easily. That's the beauty of the fret arbor: the frets come out very consistently pressed in.
hope this is helpful.
make sure to have fun!
Karl
- Dec 20, 2004
- 4,267
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- Disclosures
- Player-Builder-Founder: Honey Badger Pickups & Regenerate Guitar Works
indeed the beauty of the arbor press for fret installation, Karl.
pressing frets with an arbor also allows the fret to have even pressure distribution across the fret while it's being seated into the slot, and you only use enough pressure to get the fret to rest flush with the fretboard. even though I have a 2 ton press, I never use all of the force it can leverage against a fret - the longer handle actually provides me easier control of the pressure I apply ... something difficult to do on a lighter press where you're working closer to the full-pressure applied end of the usage scale
another benefit to utilizing an arbor is that you can hold pressure on the fret while the CA glue is setting, giving yourself one more assurance that the fret is solidly seated and won't lift on the edges
one further bit of advice: be certain that your caul insert closely matches the fretboard radius. too small of a radius and you wont have even pressure in the center of the fretboard, too large of a radius and you won't have even pressure on the edges
all the best,
R
pressing frets with an arbor also allows the fret to have even pressure distribution across the fret while it's being seated into the slot, and you only use enough pressure to get the fret to rest flush with the fretboard. even though I have a 2 ton press, I never use all of the force it can leverage against a fret - the longer handle actually provides me easier control of the pressure I apply ... something difficult to do on a lighter press where you're working closer to the full-pressure applied end of the usage scale
another benefit to utilizing an arbor is that you can hold pressure on the fret while the CA glue is setting, giving yourself one more assurance that the fret is solidly seated and won't lift on the edges
one further bit of advice: be certain that your caul insert closely matches the fretboard radius. too small of a radius and you wont have even pressure in the center of the fretboard, too large of a radius and you won't have even pressure on the edges
all the best,
R
Wow, awesome advice. Thanks to all for everything so far. The more I read the less nervous I am about this. And excited too, because doing my own frets means not outsourcing the whole neck. Carving necks has become my favorite part of the build process.
the three things I hated when I first started building instruments on the Mayflower was (in order of annoyance factor) 1. Sanding: 2, fretting, and 3. rubbing out shiny finishes.
i don't know why, maybe the lacquer has burned away too many brain cells, but I enjoy all three of those now. they're all fairly contemplative events now: i lay out all the tools I need, prep the work area, put on the tunes and the coffee and dive into it.... i've always loved the carving and shaping parts and find i much prefer hand tools these says as well.
When you see perfectly dressed frets, flawless prep and a mirror finish (or excellent rubbed finish) and know you did all of it, that's pretty neat. I don't hit the bulls eye every time, but i keep getting a little closer.
have fun!
i don't know why, maybe the lacquer has burned away too many brain cells, but I enjoy all three of those now. they're all fairly contemplative events now: i lay out all the tools I need, prep the work area, put on the tunes and the coffee and dive into it.... i've always loved the carving and shaping parts and find i much prefer hand tools these says as well.
When you see perfectly dressed frets, flawless prep and a mirror finish (or excellent rubbed finish) and know you did all of it, that's pretty neat. I don't hit the bulls eye every time, but i keep getting a little closer.
have fun!
Larry Davis said:Yeah...but is it difficult??
From what I'm reading so far, as long as you're careful and take your time, yes. But I still can't wait to dive in and fret my first!!!
Putting a shopping list together. Gonna go with the arbor press from Stewmac as a start.
(read this in an Edward G Robinson voice) OH.........so you're a wise guy ehhhhh?
That's what I get for making posts after a day of teaching those very youngsters.
Good to know you're lurking about , Larry
kfh
yep...I'm retired...not dead. I still have saw dust in my pants and a curiosity driven thirst for knowledge. 
that's my kind of retirement, LD: I'm retiring from teaching in Sept of 2012... but am going to continue to teach the guitar building courses for a few yeears after that..... fun.... and i still enjoy the kids immensely.
and the mind is the most important organ to continue to use. The worst is allowing your thought process to atrophy.... it's all downhill from there once that happens.
and the mind is the most important organ to continue to use. The worst is allowing your thought process to atrophy.... it's all downhill from there once that happens.
mikeyswood
Inactive
Turnaround
Commercial User
I then just dribble a tiny bit of water-thin CA glue through the fret slot from one side of the fingerboard, and capillary action draws it on through, sealing in the fret. God, I hope they never have to come out. LOL
Actually, not to difficult to remove at all. Heat the fret with a soldering iron and the CA softens right up.
The doctor told me if it lasts longer than four hours immediately go to the nearest WoodCraft
Back on topic, is there a big difference between the stewmac press and others on the market?
I found a one ton press at Harbor Freight, and the price is 1/3 of that of stewmac's. Is there a reason why I shouldn't get the cheaper one? As long as I use the proper cauls, it shouldn't matter, right?
I found a one ton press at Harbor Freight, and the price is 1/3 of that of stewmac's. Is there a reason why I shouldn't get the cheaper one? As long as I use the proper cauls, it shouldn't matter, right?
I think that would be fine as long as the caul can be mounted in the press. it's alll about the cauls for sure.
it's a good idea to purchase the fingerboard radius blocks to match the caul's radius, because, as Rod says, it's very important that the fingerboard be radiused the same as the fret press.
kfh
it's a good idea to purchase the fingerboard radius blocks to match the caul's radius, because, as Rod says, it's very important that the fingerboard be radiused the same as the fret press.
kfh
