NEED HELP: I'm ready to confess after 25 years

[Aztahs]

I'm not trolling. I have a confession to make that I've been secretly hiding for over 25 years and I'm ready to come clean and I need help. I am a very physically proficient bass player. I can play complicated things, have a good sense of rhythm and groove, and am a very advanced slap player. But, I have a huge problem: everything I play is a stolen lick, fill, bassline, solo etc. I have next to zero original ideas. I don't know any theory, scales or how to apply them, I don't know the fretboard well at all, and I can't solo or create unique bass lines to save my life. My brain goes completely dead - there is nothing happening inside if I'm not playing something already scripted out by someone else. Once in a while I can come up with something if I really work at it, but it definitely is not great, and again....scripted. Because of this, I limit my own playing. I turn down opportunities, shy away from certain settings or jams, beacuse I'm absolutely terrified of being exposed. The most recent controversy surrounding Giacomo Turra - the Instagram guitar sensation - was the last straw for me. It turns out he rips off much if not all of everything he plays, records things slowly then speeds it up for the video, looks completely lost when he's on his own etc.. It's all just a shiny exterior. Someone's comment on one of his recent videos hit home for me - and it hurt: "Without a stolen lick, this guy sounds like a beginner and is completely lost". I realized then and there, my God - that's me. Even early on when I first started, I remember just wanting my bass teachers to show me how to play cool songs and bass lines. I never got much of any actual training. Another similar skill I've always had since I was young: I can look at something and draw it very well, almost exactly the same. But as soon as the picture is removed, it turns into a stick figure. So I think there's something in my DNA about being an expert copy-cat, but pointless when left to my own devices in the creativity department. I feel like a fraud. How do I get better? Where do I start? I need to be in Kindergarten and moved through the different grades, from the ground up.

Thanks for reading and any advice - I needed to get this off my chest.

Fellow Bass Lover

 

[sleddogn]

don't overthink it, smoke a j, and jam...

 

[Core Creek]

Buy a guitar. From my perspective I'm far more creative writing on the guitar. And it may be sacrilegious to say here but my bass parts are designed to complement what the rest of the music is doing - I see bass as filing that role, not soloing. If I want to solo, I grab a guitar. It might get you out of a rut.

 

[tb-player]

Who cares? John Mayer built a whole career off stealing licks from blues masters… lol.

(He's actually a very proficient somgwriter but his soloing is mostly derivative.)

 

[brianrost]

Stolen licks are fine. Only jazz players are expected to come up with something new every time they play a song or to simply freely improvise rather than playing a song. Classical players are expected to just read off the charts.

In genres other than jazz and classical there are cliche phrases everybody uses. I use them all the time. I never worry about coming up with something truly original, I have no interest in that. I think of it like having a toolbox, and I pull out different tools when needed. When jamming I'll use cliche lines to get started and then see what happens. The more songs I learn, the more phrases I can steal.

When in doubt, playing only the root, the fifth and the flat seventh can be used as a starting point for rock and funk.

How to solo: play the melody and mess around with the rhythms, that always works.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

First advice I'd give is….

Paragraphs. Use them.

That wall of text is too much for my dyslexic brain to handle.

 

[Square]

Some years back, I read an interview with Steve Vai. He was saying that he would take 3-5 notes and commit to spending about 3 hours just playing those 3-5 notes in the same position for those three hours.

He said you quickly run through everything you know and then it gets very boring. This is then followed by experimenting and finding things you don't know.

After three hours you come away with a whole new catalog of what you can do with those 3-5 notes.

Perhaps try a variation on this theme. Pick a phrase you know very well, then drive it into the ground.

 

[GretschWretch]

Think of your playing as if it were a friendship bracelet made of multi-colored strands of yarn. Let each of the players you've copied, or "stolen from," be represented by a color, and let white be your color. Twist them all into a braid. The white represents all the things from these other players that you've internalized, but it also represents all the things you yourself bring to the table. You have a personal style, you just can't see it.

Come November it will be sixty years since I started playing bass. I remember where I was as a newb beginner, going from baby steps of trying to copy, as best I could, what was on the record to over time developing my own style. And I know who my influences were and what I got from them. But ultimately I developed my own style, and it is my style, to the point that others can recognize my playing even if they cannot see me.

 

[loukash]

Vice versa, some 25+ years ago I fully switched from guitar to bass because I couldn't find a good but "uncreative" bassist who would play what I'd like them to play. Even though technically I'm definitely not great, and now in my late fifties it's not gonna get better anymore, I guess. (You do not want me to start slapping, hehe ) But some folks say I'm pretty good at composing and arranging which is what I genuinely like to do.

Sometimes, "uncreativity" is also a virtue, especially if the technical skills are there.
So you may only need to find the right people to make music with.

 

[red_rhino]

The first thing to accept is that everything that everyone does is derivative. That's especially true of music, art, acting, design, whatever. We all learn from those who came before us and inspired us to do this in the first place. If we're fortunate enough or creative enough to add our own spin to it, then we've advanced the art, but rarely is anything truly original.

I plan to be retired soon, and while I do intend to continue studying, working on technique and finding ways to improve, one thing I won't be doing is learning Teen Town, how to tap the Peanuts theme, or anything else that a zillion people have already done. Not because I don't want to be derivative, but because the world doesn't need yet another version.

Think of your playing as if it were a friendship bracelet made of multi-colored strands of yarn. Let each of the players you've copied, or "stolen from," be represented by a color, and let white be your color. Twist them all into a braid. The white represents all the things from these other players that you've internalized, but it also represents all the things you yourself bring to the table. You have a personal style, you just can't see it.

What a great description.

How to solo: play the melody and mess around with the rhythms, that always works.

And don't be afraid of empty space. As bass players, we train ourselves to hold a rhythm and a pattern at all costs, which is great for supporting other people who are soloing, but doesn't help us when it's our turn to solo. Take a breath, think about what you want to "say", and then say it.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

start at square one. Learning the notes on the fretboard isn't difficult at all. Also find yourself a really good music teacher. Doesn't even necessarily have to be a bass teacher. Start going through Electric Bass Method 1 by Roger Filiberto. Don't be in a hurry. it will come. Heck, I've been studying and playing music since age 10 and I'm stll discovering new ways of doing things.

 

[DWBass]

We all take from other bass players. It's called influence and it's ok. Very few bass players have their own original voice.

 

[Reedt2000]

True spontaneous composition is very rare. Nearly all of what any of us play has been worked out ahead of time. Improv is combining and linking those worked out licks over different contexts. Just take some time and fool around, create some bits and pieces, be the player that scripted those pieces out, as you put it. And push yourself, go to jams, Improv in private over YouTube videos or loops in software. If you have the skills you describe, then you know not to expect new skills to develop overnight

 

[mrperkolator]

Thanks for reading and any advice - I needed to get this off my chest.

Fellow Bass Lover

Lean into your strengths. Look at stuff you know, and figure out why it works in that context. Once you understand the why, try something different in the same spot.

It's very unusual for someone to write a great song on the first try. Record it and ask yourself what works and what doesn't.

Chasing perfection can often be a roadblock. Use your copycat methods to understand the "why" and the rest will follow.

 

[Snipehunter]

I'm willing to bet that in your head you are able to hear unique and creative licks that are your own (if not then more listening is in order). Now all you need to do is figure out how to translate them to the fretboard. Ear training will help you do that. I recommend ear training apps like EarMaster but also transcribing songs. Stem isolation software such as Moises makes it much easier.

You got this.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Some good Ideas

PS: You can also make up riffs/lines in your head and transfer to Bass don't need theory or perfect fretboard on the fly knowledge but just knowing how positions on Bass sounds from experience you said you have

 

[J Wilson]

I've lived long enough to often find that things that terrified me just weren't all that if I took a deep breath, waded into it, and took that insecurity off the list.

WE all come from a long line of lots and lots of cats who learned by listening to our personal faves, little snatched of music we heard on the fly that stuck with it, it comes from everywhere. I'd be the first to admit that without the great 60's players like Kaye, Osborne, Hood, McCartney, Jamerson and so many more, I'd have no vocabulary. And I can't slap to save my life and would never dream of solos, that's just not me.

But humans have a remarkable ability to take knowledge from everywhere and take and combine and morph into something unique to each of us, like snowflakes. You and I could woodshed any tune you name, and even though at the end we could play it note for note, the way I did it will not sound exactly like you did it. This is essence and the magic.

I would urge you to go to jams, and pick one where you probably know most of the songs already. Go a few times as a listener till you find one where you think, 'WTH, I know most all these already'. Then taking what you know and making it fit what they're doing will show you right quick your creativity and mental flexibility is far deeper than you imagine, and un-horse some of these fears. There's nothing like having to stand and deliver RIGHT NOW to put lead in your pencil, and often in these situations, 'close' is good enough as it's extemporaneous.

And NEVER paint yourself or let others paint you into a corner. We all go through periods where we think we're not all that, that's normal with anything you do for a long time. But the only real critic I have is me, as I've rarely found anyone I felt was qualified to point out things about coaching my playing. It's surprising how clueless many are about bass-playing.

 

[ragetoca]

Nothing new under the sun! We all have been influenced by other bassist and we all have stolen licks!
I would reccomend to start studying where you are weak at. Can't compose? Take a composing class. Can't improvise? Take some lessons on it. You are not a farse, you are just stuck and comfortable with what you already know and you are not growing.
Step out of your comfort zone and start learning new things. Is never too late!
I highly recommend Adam Nitti

 

[LiptonJigglers]

I'm not trolling. I have a confession to make that I've been secretly hiding for over 25 years and I'm ready to come clean and I need help. I am a very physically proficient bass player. I can play complicated things, have a good sense of rhythm and groove, and am a very advanced slap player. But, I have a huge problem: everything I play is a stolen lick, fill, bassline, solo etc. I have next to zero original ideas. I don't know any theory, scales or how to apply them, I don't know the fretboard well at all, and I can't solo or create unique bass lines to save my life. My brain goes completely dead - there is nothing happening inside if I'm not playing something already scripted out by someone else. Once in a while I can come up with something if I really work at it, but it definitely is not great, and again....scripted. Because of this, I limit my own playing. I turn down opportunities, shy away from certain settings or jams, beacuse I'm absolutely terrified of being exposed. The most recent controversy surrounding Giacomo Turra - the Instagram guitar sensation - was the last straw for me. It turns out he rips off much if not all of everything he plays, records things slowly then speeds it up for the video, looks completely lost when he's on his own etc.. It's all just a shiny exterior. Someone's comment on one of his recent videos hit home for me - and it hurt: "Without a stolen lick, this guy sounds like a beginner and is completely lost". I realized then and there, my God - that's me. Even early on when I first started, I remember just wanting my bass teachers to show me how to play cool songs and bass lines. I never got much of any actual training. Another similar skill I've always had since I was young: I can look at something and draw it very well, almost exactly the same. But as soon as the picture is removed, it turns into a stick figure. So I think there's something in my DNA about being an expert copy-cat, but pointless when left to my own devices in the creativity department. I feel like a fraud. How do I get better? Where do I start? I need to be in Kindergarten and moved through the different grades, from the ground up.

Thanks for reading and any advice - I needed to get this off my chest.

Fellow Bass Lover

I've studied philosophy, social science and political economy for over 30 years now. There is nothing in this realm that hasn't been "stolen" "rebranded" "remarketed" and sold off as something original.. absolutely nothing. If it's good for all these "well educated brilliant minds" who paid large sums of money and years of sitting quietly in a room full of other out of pocket brainiacs, then it's good for you and your bass.
Go to a jam session and step outside your comfort zone. You'll be amazed at how good you are.

 

[Bikeguy57]

Didn't you just describe pretty much every amateur playing bass in a cover band? Actually, from your description, you sound a lot better than most of the hacks I see when I go out. I'd be happy to be able to play at the level you describe. Don't beat yourself up brother.