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need more than 8x10 - what next?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by morebass!, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    My two GK SBX-410s and 1001RB aren't giving me enough volume to fill the house in a lot of places so what next? Our PA sub farts out on the kick drum so I don't want to put any more bottom through it. It's a JBL 18" with 900 watts pushing it. Just kick and vocals going through the PA. Last night I used a Bag End 4x10 with a 900 watt power amp AND one of the GKs with the 1001RB so I had 8 tens driven by about 1400 watts! The power amp driving the Bag End was near clipping levels and the SBX was maxed out and I still wasn't loud enough. It was a big place but this is getting ridiculous. It's too loud on stage, bass is getting in my mic and there's not enough bottom out front.

    We're a three-piece rock/blues/70's R&B band shlepping our own PA. Our drummer is loud (and very good so I'm not complaining). I'm wearing earplugs. I like the SBX cabs and tone I'm getting from them (tight and warm for fingerstyle, enough zing for slap) but am pushing them too hard and need more sound, especially lows out in the house.

    I have a Crest 1000 watt power amp so I can run a line from the 1001RB to it and power another cab but I don't really want much more stage volume. So I'm thinking of getting a PA sub, maybe a JBL 18 to match the one the PA is running through, and putting that out front (pole mount deal to hold the other main). Or maybe getting a compressor to put between the kick and the PA would make enough room in the PA for some bass. So I'm looking for feedback on the sub and/or compressor ideas as well as other ideas.

    Thanks in advance for anyone who reads this long post!:) :bassist:
  2. 2 8x10s?
  3. ebe9


    Feb 26, 2006
    South Africa
    Better PA perhaps?
  4. greenboy


    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I'd say get your PA - and your PA skills - together. Using gain stucture correctly and cab placement are two areas that you have to understand to do well. What points to my opinion? Well, good subs don't fart out if used and placed right, and can make a lot of SPL. Is that sub actually the correct driver in the cab it was intended for with porting tuned for it? A lot of people just blow up a driver and assume they can replace it with whatever has the same diameter, that's why I ask.

    The PA is definitely the place to look if you don't want ungodly stage volume anyway.
  5. mobax


    Dec 31, 2002
    New Baltimore, MI
    I'm not trying to rain on your parade but it sounds to me like your band is playing too loud. If the sub farts from the kick drum, you need to rethink the eq or volume or both. If the volume is too loud on stage, turn down. Maybe you could hire a professional to come to one of your gigs to give you an appraisal of your sound. First and foremost you need to play within the limits of your equipment.
  6. sedan_dad

    sedan_dad Supporting Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    See if you can borrow a SVT top and bottom from someone.
    They do cut through.
  7. Thakid2u


    May 1, 2006
    from what Im getting, you want more bottom. Well instead of adding more 10's to your rig....Why not add an 18 and a 15? Our bass player uses an 8x10, a 2x15 (sometimes 2) and an 18. We have no problem. It doesnt really make you louder per say, but you become fuller.

    What's happening is your losing yourself in the mix. Adding a broader spectrum, you will show up a heck of alot more.

    If that makes sense...ok, if not...lol just try adding the 15 and 18.
  8. try a design from billfitzmaurice.com
  9. seansbrew

    seansbrew Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2000
    Mesa AZ.
    I would have to guess off the bat that you guys are playing too loud. In my last band I used two BXT 4x10 cabs powered by an SVT4 pro. We had: Bass, two guitarsts, full percushionist, Drummer, saxaphone. My amp rarely got turned all the way to clipping. What is your guitar player using? Are you competing with him to be heard? What about the drummer, could you put a few well place partitions around him?
  10. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    How about a couple of Schroeder 412s or 210212s? They're some of the most efficient cabs on the market, and are designed to cut through ANY mix. Plus, the 412 handles 2,000 watts! Check them out!

  11. Me thinks you are playing too loud.

    Get a decent PA, and EQ more suitably.

    Or, get a couple SVTs and a 215 aswell
  12. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    Yeah the bigger speakers seem to be the way to go for this. Back in the 70s and 80s when I played through 15 and 18 cabs I had trouble hearing myself onstage but was plenty loud out in the house. So I've come full circle and now need to find a compomise. Replaceing one of the 4x10s with a 15 might do the trick. I'm wonder if it would be loud enough though. 15s seem to be quieter overall than 4x10s. There is a mesa 2x15 powerhouse brand new for $700 locally that I'm considering. I could use that with one 4x10 and likely be set. It's very heavy though (124 lbs) :meh: . Seems like a sub out front might be better. Not crazy about 18s though. Maybe with 8 tens it would work.

    How about the compression for the kick idea? Anyone?

  13. Ale


    Jul 5, 2006
    Endorsing Artist: IGiG Cases
    if 1400 watts and 810's not loud enough , something is very wrong.
  14. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    We're loud to my ears but rarely get asked to turn down. In fact people have often asked for more bass. A better PA would be nice but isn't in the cards it's the guitarist's. Since I have the extra power amp available I thought I'd handle it myself, with either another cab on stage or a sub under the mains.

    I've tried all kinds of EQ/amps/basses but have been pretty much stuck on 10 inch speakers so that might be the thing to change.
  15. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    Yes I realize that. That's the point of this thread. Any specific suggestions?

  16. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    I'm intrigued by the Schroeder talk but haven't tried one yet. No dealers in Wisconsin that I can find so it'll take a trip to Chi-town. Of course the downside is that they are quite pricey. If it did the trick I'd do it though. Thanks for the suggestion!

  17. snowdan


    Feb 27, 2006
    it's quite simple. less guitar volume. and maybe lighter sticks for the drummer.

    if that doesn't help then you are trying to fill larger venues than your PA is capable of.
  18. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    The guitarist has only a peavey classic 50 with one 15". He cranks it pretty loud but is pretty tasteful so doesn't get annoying with it. The fact that it's a 15 probably contributes to the low-mid mush on stage.

    The drummer would never agree to partitions. He gets really involved with the crowd.

  19. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    Simple conceptually, but in practice I've found that it's actually quite difficult to get musicians to change their sound or technique to accomodate me. These guys are older and more experienced than me so that adds to the difficulty.

    Regarding the PA I have to agree. Although it's much better than it was a couple years ago. We are not as adept at using it as we should be.

  20. greenboy


    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    If you are thinking of adding a sub anyway, do it for the PA. And make sure the kick channel trim and EQ gains aren't set so high that they're driving the channel or buss circuitry into distortion. Or that the subwoofer power amp isn't heavily clipping each time the pedal gets smacked. The kick should not be making bad sounds.

    With two subs and a proper amp driving them you should have enough support to get more bass guitar AND kick into FOH.

    If that still isn't enough you don't have enough PA for the levels you want FOH. Buying more bass gear won't solve your real problems and the bad kick sound indicates they exist.

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