Another thing, where's your Contour set? Try turning it all the way OFF. It may not sound as good to you by yourself, but Contour is basically the "disappear" knob in a band mix.
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need more than 8x10 - what next?
- Thread starter morebass!
- Start date
I'm gonna pair my Acoustic 301 cab (18) with a soon to be had Berg NV610 powered by my Mesa 400+. I'll let you know how it goes but I'm thinkin' it should have rig-o-doom qualities! 
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Our PA skills are marginal at best but the sub should be ok. It's a relatively new JBL and the driver has not been changed out. Cab placement options are usually somewhat limited. I haven't heard of cab placement causing farting out. How does that work?
I can't say I understand how the kick drum gain structure is set up. It goes from a trigger to a brain to the board to the eq to a crossover to the poweramp so there are lots of opportunities to screw that up
I can't say I understand how the kick drum gain structure is set up. It goes from a trigger to a brain to the board to the eq to a crossover to the poweramp so there are lots of opportunities to screw that up
Yeah I know about the contour issues. I leave it down or off unless I slap (rare). Thanks though.
Interesting...so you're saying that it would help more to add a sub for the PA and then put bass through the PA?
If your guitarist is only using a 50 watt with a 15inch speaker, there is something sorely wrong with your setup
Do you have everything setup properly?
Also, i find 10s are the way to go, they just cut it better than 18 and 15 inch speakers IME (ive never really tried 8s)
Ive got an SVT (300 watt) into a marshall 810, and seldom need to go past 2 on the volume.
And thats playing with a fairly loud drummer and a guitarist with a 100 watt marshall JCM 900 stack.
So, if i can SLAY the guitatist in my band volumewise if need be, and you are running more power than me vs a much quieter guitar amp, you really must be EQing it with waaay too much bass, you you've setup something wrong
Do you have everything setup properly?
Also, i find 10s are the way to go, they just cut it better than 18 and 15 inch speakers IME (ive never really tried 8s)
Ive got an SVT (300 watt) into a marshall 810, and seldom need to go past 2 on the volume.
And thats playing with a fairly loud drummer and a guitarist with a 100 watt marshall JCM 900 stack.
So, if i can SLAY the guitatist in my band volumewise if need be, and you are running more power than me vs a much quieter guitar amp, you really must be EQing it with waaay too much bass, you you've setup something wrong
I hear the Phil Jones cabs can get rediculously loud, but still have clairity. I've never used one myself, the nearest dealer to me is like 200+ miles away. He has an interesting philosophy about bass amplification. It's not about the size of the speakers, but the number. I would losve to play through 32 5" speakers sometime. Read some of the reviews and the tech page.
http://www.philjonesbass.com/
http://www.philjonesbass.com/
Thats always been the case, with all things being even, a higher surface area will give you more volume and more bass
+1 extra JBL and +1 compressor.
You should be absolutley compressing the kick, for sound and volume. And when you start sending bass through the PA, send it to both the mains and the subs, and compress it as well, both for sound and volume.
IMO, your bass amp should really only need to provide stage volume. And 900 watts to your sub should be sufficent to push both kick and bass for sure...
I'd also suggest mic'ing the guiatrists amp (a 57 is like 80 bucks) and that way he can be a more reasonable volume on stage as well. Let the PA do the heavy lifting.
Good luck!
I use very little EQ and the cabinets are sealed so don't put out huge amounts of bass. I really don't think I'm overdoing the low end. I'm more middy. The low end is really lacking out in the house.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Some of you continue to miss the point. A bigger bass rig with better EQ practices is NOT going to make the kick drum stop sounding like the sub's voice coil is being shredded by the Terminator's horde of titanium-clawed gerbils. And it's NOT going to stop excessive leakage into mics onstage.
I know its hard to realize that bigger, louder bass rigs won't solve world hunger and bring about a better age, but you need to look at the bigger picture ; }
I know its hard to realize that bigger, louder bass rigs won't solve world hunger and bring about a better age, but you need to look at the bigger picture ; }
Take out your earplugs. That should get you more volume.
Seriously, you guys are playing too loud.
Seriously, you guys are playing too loud.
What would be a good compressor for this application (bas and kick) and where would it go in the chain?
+1 to adjusting the kick in the FOH as a possible solution.
Tough to say what the problem is without hearing you, but how does the drummer's kick sound when you record it? If a direct-out to tape from the kick channel is all mud, then the problem might not be the PA.
A boomy kick will monopolize your PA amps' power without giving you anything in return. And in response to not hearing a well-defined kick, some bands just crank up more mud on the kick.
Even before compression, experiment w/ mic choice and placement on the kick. Some drummers--even experienced ones--just put a dynamic peeking into the front head port and call it a day. Sometimes that's a good spot, but often that just gives you mud.
Your band's low end (including the kick) might sound a lot better with the kick mic closer to the beater head, or pulled back out of the drum 6-8 inches. Also, try mic positions from the center of the head to the edge of the hoop. Typically, this is easiest done to tape, w/ drummer playing for 5-10 second for each mic position. On playback, you'll be able to hear which positions give you useable sounds and which give you mud. (Just take be systematic about changing the mic positions and take some notes so you can tell which position you're listening to.)
If your mixing board or outboard eq allows, you might also try rolling off the very low end on the kick before compression (again, you'll need to experiment, but you might try ~40Hz as a starting point). BTW, I'd also roll off the lows on the guitar and use low-cut on any open vocal mics. (Depending on the band's sound, you might be able to roll off the guitar below ~250 - 300 Hz, and the vocals below 125-200 Hz.)
Once you have a reasonable basic kick sound, then bring on the compression.
At the end of the day, you'll probably find you also need to lower stage volume to get a good FOH sound, but if your basic instrument & vocal sounds each have a well defined slice of the spectrum, the volume battles become less of an issue.
Our PA skills are marginal at best but the sub should be ok. It's a relatively new JBL and the driver has not been changed out. Cab placement options are usually somewhat limited. I haven't heard of cab placement causing farting out. How does that work?
I can't say I understand how the kick drum gain structure is set up. It goes from a trigger to a brain to the board to the eq to a crossover to the poweramp so there are lots of opportunities to screw that up
First two words I thought of were "gain structure" too. I'm not a PA guy, and I think the next step might be to have a good sound guy take a look at what you're doing. If you can set up all the gear at a practice place, then you'll have as much time to adjust things as you want but you could always do it before a gig too if needed.
Here's my free advice about the kick (money cheerfully refunded if not satisfied, but that's what we're doing too). The signal from the drum brain can't be overloaded. Set the level on the brain at an optimal setting (strong enough to get a good signal to the board, but low enough that it's in no danger of overload). The input side of the mixer should hit close to zero and not go over. All the way down the line...
You've got a lot of equipment and a lot of power, and I really wouldn't add anything else until you have a second opinion. It's hard to see everything that's going on here on a forum, so having someone that really knows their stuff would be a big help. Full Compass in Middleton should be able to recommend someone if you don't know anyone already. The guy we use here in Rockford has done this for other bands before.
One thing you might want to consider is in-ear monitors instead of just ear plugs. To do that right isn't cheap, but it could solve a lot of problems. My band will probably be changing over to that soon.
Dbx makes nice compressors for the money, the dbx 266XL Compressor/Gate is a one channel rack unit for $150, righly rated.
You'll want to run the compressor in a bus from the mixer. You'll want to read the documentation carefully as compressors can be confusing to set up for the first time. But once you get it running it should really help.
You'll want to run the compressor in a bus from the mixer. You'll want to read the documentation carefully as compressors can be confusing to set up for the first time. But once you get it running it should really help.
I can't say I understand how the kick drum gain structure is set up. It goes from a trigger to a brain to the board to the eq to a crossover to the poweramp so there are lots of opportunities to screw that up
OK, now I am confused. Your drummer triggers his kick, he doesn't mic it? If he triggers, it is very likely that the sample is already compressed, so you may not need a compressor for the kick at all. I thought you played blues/70s? And he triggers?
