Need opinions and guidance building a space elevator.

[thepontif]

Yes... and all that might be true...

IF the power amp had no power supply filtering AT ALL.

Really? So how is the performance of those $1.50 electrolytics that are commonly underrated? And the $0.15 7815 regulators for the preamp section that aren't properly heat sunk?

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Sorry, but one point that's been bugging. This notion of comfort level. While in these kinds of discussions, comfort level is not the priority, I've never heard of a situation where when discussing or negotiating, it is a good idea to make people uncomfortable. I always thought, except as a calculated strategy, it was best to keep everyone feeling comfortable enough to not just leave the discussion. When people are uncomfortable, they generally stop listening, no? It's not a PRIORITY at all, I agree. So that means we should pay it no heed at all?

Someone being told they are wrong, or an idea is flawed, is going to be uncomfortable. If you want to be really uncomfortable, try facing the reviews of a article you submit to a peer reviewed journal. Even when they don't have many issues with it, it's still uncomfortable as hell! Facing 50-100+ people, and their questions after having presented data can be uncomfortable, but it still leads to progress.

Though I daresay the issue is that we are all going to have different levels of comfort, some of us live for heated debates, some don't. Some can deal better with being told they are wrong, and adapt, moreso than others.

Regardless, I think the majority of this thread has been fine, TB is certainly one of the most comfortable interactive sites I've used on the net!

 

[thepontif]

I don't know if I qualify as a "high level" engineer or not...

BSCE University of Michigan

6 years Senior Design Engineer @ Intel working on the Pentium 4 and variants.

6 years head Electrical Engineer @ Precision Devices, Inc. (Ultra high precision metrology equipment)

Currently Electronics Engineer doing repair/design for research at a major research university Aerospace Engineering department.

Ok.

15 years hands-on experience designing and producing audio electronics for the most sought-after bass guitar manufaccturer in the industry, and a line of succeful products in their own right.

Toured with Chick Corea, David Sanborn, Al DiMeola, Manhattan Transfer, bachelors in music from University of North Texas.

So what?

So you are one of the people who IS educated and informed and I'm GLAD you are here.

 

[thepontif]

TB is certainly one of the most comfortable interactive sites I've used on the net!

I agree.

 

[MatticusMania]

Rather than donate to the space elevator kickstarter, Im going to start my own fundraising to complete my teleportation device.
Its so much more feasible than a space elevator, and we wouldnt need a giant cable connecting the earth to the moon.

Ive got a plan, and its been crosschecked by the engineers at work. Theyre totally in!
Please send your cash to 123 W Boulevard Blvd, Los Angeles, Ca. 90210

 

[aborgman]

Really? So how is the performance of those $1.50 electrolytics that are commonly underrated?

Absolutely fine, if a knowledgeable designer is implementing the circuit.

And the $0.15 7815 regulators for the preamp section that aren't properly heat sunk?

If your point is that you can design a power supply so horrible as to be messed up by "poor" wall power - I agree.

That isn't an argument for magic cables, or the importance of perfectly clean power from the wall.

It's an argument for hiring competent engineers to design things.

 

[aborgman]

Ok.

15 years hands-on experience designing and producing audio electronics for the most sought-after bass guitar manufaccturer in the industry, and a line of succeful products in their own right.

That is relevant engineering experience.

Toured with Chick Corea, David Sanborn, Al DiMeola, Manhattan Transfer, bachelors in music from University of North Texas.

That experience has nothing, at all, to do with the subject at hand and is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

So what?

So you asked about the engineering experience of those downing the idea.

 

[thepontif]

There are lots of poorly designed power supplies out there! Asserting that they should have hired a better engineer to design it doesn't make it work any better. However, I am not a supporter of anything more than good quality cabling. I would never pay more than a few dollars for a good power cable.

 

[thepontif]

That is relevant engineering experience.



That experience has nothing, at all, to do with the subject at hand and is completely irrelevant to the discussion.



So you asked about the engineering experience of those downing the idea.

None of it has anything to do with any of it, if you read my posts. That's my point. Your credentials are no more relevant than mine because I'm not here to discuss good science. That left the conversation way back at the beginning. I have a problem with the way people express themselves and generally treat each other. Like copping a huge attitude over nothing and getting real overbearing. I never tried to put your skills or qualifications down. I said, "hard to believe a large percentage" of people here were high level engineers. You do not make up a large percentage. You are choosing to be contrary without any basis that I can see.

 

[aborgman]

I have a problem with the way people express themselves and generally treat each other.

I do too - but in the opposite direction.

On technical subjects folks are generally way, way, way too concerned with peoples feelings and how the message is delivered, and not nearly concerned enough with the actual message.

 

[Relic]

Sorry, I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV and on top of it, I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night... So take it as a layman's opinion - one who would have to give his money on pure faith to this project - the OP's bizarre request and appeal for money sound more akin to a Nigerian scammer, albeit an Isaac Asimov-y one, but one nonetheless. Start small - build something that even a layman like me would take notice of, then maybe I'll listen. Until then..? My posterior, here it is...start puckerin'

 

[mcglyph]

Come on guys, you're swimming in dangerous politically flavoured waters here....and I don't want to see this thread closed

To the OP and his minions, as a Physics graduate, member of both the ASE and IOP and secondary school teacher of 20 years, I find it quite objectionable that I am labelled anti-forward thinking because I find the idea of donating money to a crackpot scheme utterly ridiculous. And that's what it is...a crackpot scheme. There is nothing in any of the links provided that can answer some of the basic technical/mechanical/physical problems that such a project provides, just lots of nonsensical babble and lame attempts at clever wordsmithery.

I can assure you that in my position of trust and responsibility with the next generation of young scientists, the last thing I am is 'anti-forward thinking'. Ridiculous.

Elevator to the moon....fact or fiction? Fiction. The End.

Oh, by the way, it's called a LIFT

Hey Teach, the OP didn't label you anti forward anything.

 

[thepontif]

I do too - but in the opposite direction.

On technical subjects folks are generally way, way, way too concerned with peoples feelings and how the message is delivered, and not nearly concerned enough with the actual message.

I do agree with this. I just think one needs to know who one is talking to before they dispense with the filter. And there's a lot in delivery. It seems, the best engineers I know are very good at asserting themselves without causing a shut down in communication.

 

[mcglyph]

Sorry, but you haven't really answered anything here, you've just deflected my question.

I'll ask again, do you or anyone directly connected to you stand to POTENTIALLY profit from LiftPort, now or any time in the near or distant future? An honest, clear and direct yes or no to this would clarify your motives and true desires, be they selfish or selfless. I reserve judgement on which until I have enough information to hold an educated opinion.

Next, you're missing a third option, somewhere between saying, "this can be done in *insert completely unfeasable timescale here*" and "we don't think its going to ever happen".

That is, provide an intellectually, economically and politically reasonable estimate on the timescales involved, that stands up to scrutiny. Admit to the unknowns, the possibile delays and other caveats. Be intellectually honest with those being asked for their hard earned cash.



I believe everything I said was relevant. I did not bash the idea outright, I did a little personal research and highlighted my concerns. This IS discussion type input. Discussion isn't patting you, or those involved on the back and telling everyone what a great job they're doing. My statement was in no way disingenuine, and was entirely based on facts easily checked by all. Its also something I think anyone who is going to give their hard earned money to this project has a right to know. So what's the problem that made all of this half of your reply a necessity?

Ok. I have been very clear. Both projects have lot's of questions. THe answers to NONE OF WHICH DO I HAVE. The from earth elevator is expected to be about twenty years away, depending.

I'm not a scientist, engineer, etc. Neither do I have any monetary interest in this, other than the 1K I've donated.

I've mentioned money three times (8$) and suggested the kickstarter campaign a few times as a reference, thus your assertion of, "asking people...etc," is spurious supposition.

As previously stated in all instances I have not been snarky even when the tone whether intended or perceived seemed worthy of such a response. I have attempted to get people to go and check out what they may not understand, repeatedly, thus if you were following the thread, continuously the perception would be different than if you did like many do and just pick up the thread where they find it so to speak. Given the aforementioned data, it might be clear as to why I don't feel I was too insistent in my view, as it seemed fairly clear from many questions/jabs/jokes, the commenter had not read the previous comments, or perhaps did not read them close enough.

 

[fmoore200]

I don't know if I qualify as a "high level" engineer or not...

Nope.. Not good enough lol

 

[dj150888]

Ok. I have been very clear. Both projects have lot's of questions. THe answers to NONE OF WHICH DO I HAVE. The from earth elevator is expected to be about twenty years away, depending.

I'm not a scientist, engineer, etc. Neither do I have any monetary interest in this, other than the 1K I've donated.

I've mentioned money three times (8$) and suggested the kickstarter campaign a few times as a reference, thus your assertion of, "asking people...etc," is spurious supposition.

The from earth elevator is not twenty years away. While I'm not an engineer, my background in Chemistry has given me enough knowledge of CNTs to be absolutely certain of this, nevermind the countless other science, engineering, economic and finance hurdles.

My assertion of "asking people...etc" was not only related to you, it was related to the team who actually set up the kickstarter campaign. By the very nature of having a kickstarter campaign, they are asking for money constantly. So my point stands, if they insist on asking people for their hard earned money, they should be intellectually honest with their time predictions and the potential hurdles that stand in the way.

As previously stated in all instances I have not been snarky even when the tone whether intended or perceived seemed worthy of such a response. I have attempted to get people to go and check out what they may not understand, repeatedly, thus if you were following the thread, continuously the perception would be different than if you did like many do and just pick up the thread where they find it so to speak. Given the aforementioned data, it might be clear as to why I don't feel I was too insistent in my view, as it seemed fairly clear from many questions/jabs/jokes, the commenter had not read the previous comments, or perhaps did not read them close enough.

I have been following this thread from the very start. I am fully aware of the data, I have made my own educated opinion on the project and shared some information I came across while researching. The information I passed on was relevant to anyone who was considering donating to this project. So why am I getting replies regarding how to check out what I don't understand? I understand perfectly well what is being proposed.

Are you so convinced by their marketing that you can't understand why someone who DOES understand it still doesn't want to support it? Or do you not have actual answers to what I'm asking you? I'm not asking how anything applies to your replies to other commenters, just to me. You can hold onto the suggestions to read further on it. I have and I have found sufficient gaps in their information to undermine any potential faith I could have in this project.

 

[Gaius46]

Another problem with the elevator is, where does the Lifter go once it reaches the top? Is it ejected? Or does it need to crawl back down to the base? If the latter, then only one Lifter can be utilised on the elevator. The turnaround time for the runs would be 2 days (or more).

You'd probably want it to go back down the elevator because that presents an opportunity to capture some of the energy used to go up. And you probably can design a two way system that allows one or more to go up while one or more go down.

That's the easy part though. Addressing the materials issue is the real challenge and as others have said we're a long long way from addressing those.

 

[EricF]

Bah! To hell with this space elevator talk. I want the flying car I was promised decades ago!!

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Why don't we just tie a series of strings together and lower it down off the space station? Then we can tie it to the planet and build little roller lifts that go up and down. Also instead of relying on parachutes people should become better at high speed somersaults so they never fall to the ground. People are lazy.

 

[mcglyph]

The from earth elevator is not twenty years away. While I'm not an engineer, my background in Chemistry has given me enough knowledge of CNTs to be absolutely certain of this, nevermind the countless other science, engineering, economic and finance hurdles.

My assertion of "asking people...etc" was not only related to you, it was related to the team who actually set up the kickstarter campaign. By the very nature of having a kickstarter campaign, they are asking for money constantly. So my point stands, if they insist on asking people for their hard earned money, they should be intellectually honest with their time predictions and the potential hurdles that stand in the way.



I have been following this thread from the very start. I am fully aware of the data, I have made my own educated opinion on the project and shared some information I came across while researching. The information I passed on was relevant to anyone who was considering donating to this project. So why am I getting replies regarding how to check out what I don't understand? I understand perfectly well what is being proposed.

Are you so convinced by their marketing that you can't understand why someone who DOES understand it still doesn't want to support it? Or do you not have actual answers to what I'm asking you? I'm not asking how anything applies to your replies to other commenters, just to me. You can hold onto the suggestions to read further on it. I have and I have found sufficient gaps in their information to undermine any potential faith I could have in this project.

Man this awesome, a real discussion is going on here. Love it.

I can fully understand soe of you not wanting to support it.

Being the highly educated, credentialed peoples asome of you are, you can probably understand that though you carry all of these certifications, etc, your continued blanket statements contradicting my assertions, isn't a discussion. It's a display in counterweights, yes? I believe this you believe that. So there is no discussion there. You say it is never going to happen or it's so far in the future, clearly this idea is laughable, silly, or at worst a scam. I say it isn't. The truth is you don't know. YOU DON'T KNOW. And in fact there is plenty of evidence as to how you can be replete with all these awesome degrees, experiences, etc, and just still don't got a clue whether you are right or I'am or not. You don't know whether it's going to happen in ten years anymore than you know the sun is going to rise tomorrow. Simple really. So you have your opinions, strong as they are, and I have mine. I don't have any answers, never claimed I did, in fact I didn't claim anyone had ALL the answers or even many of them, as clearly right now, no one does. Thus, this thread is exactly what is, despite your self assured assertions, just a man telling people about this fantastic, incredibly challenging project going on and pointing a finger toward the knowledge book if they want to seek it out. Simple, yes?