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NEW Acoustic 360/361

#221
Gaolee said:
I was being a little ironic.
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Ah. Let's hope Vetchking reads my above to do-list, then. ;)

Gaolee said:
I'm in Seattle, Washington. I would certainly hope there's more than just me, but I don't know how many of 'em George has sold.
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Cool. At the unofficial forum there are some users (with accounts here too) that probably would let TB:ers try their rigs if asked nicely. Definitely Alan (he's said this himself many times), possibly Mike and Rabbit, too. In LA there's Tracy Paxton (she's on Facebook). There must be lots of rigs around by now -- it's only a matter of locating them and asking...
 
#222
It is a fine, fine amp, and I'd like to thank Gaolee for making it possible for me to spend some quality time with his quality rig while I was visiting Seattle during the summer.

Gaolee said:
It must be harder than we think. I guess. Anyway, Anybody who is out this way and wants to mess with one is welcome to send me a PM and try it. They aren't in stores, and they aren't everybody's idea of the perfect amp. That's the best I can do for anybody who is interested in finding out if they are what you want or not.
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#223
lfh said:
No it's pretty simple:

If in-house resources aren't available, just book 4 hours in a near by studio with decent acoustics and a good mic selection (e.g. RE20, M88, U47/U67/U87). Also book a versatile local session player. Put several mics close to the cab (HF horn, upper mouth, lower mouth), another couple e.g. 3 ft out and 6 ft out plus an ambience pair. Hook up the direct out. Track to 8 channels. Put up a video camera, too.

Ask the session cat to play grooves in various styles, e.g. Stax, Motown, JPJ, Jaco, Larry Graham, Marcus Miller. Maybe use a J-bass, a P-bass and a StingRay. Walk through the controls briefly. No display of monster chops needed or wanted.

Go home and listen. Decide what mic(s) to use. Pic maybe 4-5 representative clips of maybe 1 minute each to begin with (add more later if called for). Sync audio and video in a DAW of your choice. Possibly pay someone to do this. Encode and upload to YouTube. Put up audio in FLAC format at the homepage. Done. It could all be done in 2 days (or less if less ambitiuos). Cheaper than going exhibitions and running big ads.
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Seriously! For gear in this extremely lofty price range with virtually zero distribution, a builder would be crazy NOT to do the above, IMO.
 
#225
GregC said:
Seriously! For gear in this extremely lofty price range with virtually zero distribution, a builder would be crazy NOT to do the above, IMO.
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I would think so, too. OTOH they've survived a 4 year struggle going from prototype (2007) to production (2011) while working out probably endless contract details and approval processes with GC in parallel (see the article in Bass Player), which would be more than enough to kill most startups, and they're now almost 3 years into production, so Vetchking must be doing something right.

One possibility I've brought up before is that they're kind of happy with the current sales volumes, and a substantial increase (that could result from heavy marketing) would force them to hire people / move to new premises / switch to new subcontractors / buy expensive machinery / ... and for some reasons they don't want to take this route. Alternatively, they would want to take it to the next level, but there are obstacles prohibiting this. We've seen many times over here that such small niche manufacturers can't be judged by "normal" standards. It's often enough that one key person gets bogged down by other commitments / health problems / whatever to stall processes at length.
 
#226
zon6c-f said:
I have suggested to George that he offer more variety..Why not do a 're-issue' of the Acoustic 408 cab?? Or...re-introduce the 'Sunn' 118-vh..only under his moniker if patents/ copyrights aren't enfringed...NOPE..Its either new 361 or 361 mini..or not at all.
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Given the powerful drivers available today, there are no strong technical reasons to reissue a 408. The four Em drivers in the 408 are junk by today's standards in terms of SPL capabilities. Two state-of-the-art 15" drivers are loud enough for most people, so having four of them would be overkill. The doom guys might disagree, but OTOH they also seem to like a wall of sound: If they really want to push 130 dB or more, two cabs are firstly visually cooler than a single monster one and secondly they often run more than one head for tonal versatility (e.g. dry/wet).

More promising IMHO would be a lightweight combo. Even if it's a boutique combo, and priced accordingly, the entry fee to "get into the club" would be substantially lower than USD 5,000 (list). It would also cover the other end of the weight and size spectrum.
 
#227
The weight of a 360 or 360m is a little deceptive. They are good and heavy, but the weight is all down in the bottom of the cabinet, since that's where the power amp is. The "head" is just a preamp, and it is very light. It's essentially an empty box with a few electronic components in it. I don't think there's even a transformer in there, but I haven't taken it apart to look. So, it would be a reasonable line extension for George to make a lightweight version of the power amplifier, or maybe a different one, in a separate cabinet. Then all that could drive either a smaller front firing cabinet or a folded horn with no amplifier in it. The possibilities are endless, but I suspect George has his hands full holding things together and dealing with GC for the time being. At some level, I think GC probably dictate what he can and cannot do.
 
#228
Gaolee said:
The weight of a 360 or 360m is a little deceptive. They are good and heavy, but the weight is all down in the bottom of the cabinet, since that's where the power amp is. The "head" is just a preamp, and it is very light. It's essentially an empty box with a few electronic components in it. I don't think there's even a transformer in there, but I haven't taken it apart to look. So, it would be a reasonable line extension for George to make a lightweight version of the power amplifier, or maybe a different one, in a separate cabinet. Then all that could drive either a smaller front firing cabinet or a folded horn with no amplifier in it. The possibilities are endless, but I suspect George has his hands full holding things together and dealing with GC for the time being. At some level, I think GC probably dictate what he can and cannot do.
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Only a small transformer is required in the preamp power supply. No reason to implement a switched mode supply there.

A separate slave amp style power amp, the Link Removed, has been listed since day one, but apparently it's not available yet. Such a thing would be nice for people with full featured stomp box pres, but to lug around a head case pre (360) and a head case power amp wouldn't be practical... A conventional powered head would be a better addition to the line IMHO.
 
#233
I don't know, but if it sells at all at a price close to that, I'll be a little surprised. The road case is worth something, I suppose, but is it really worth $1000, usesd? And, he already knocked the shine off the amp, so you would think it would be some discount from a new one. The market is a strange animal.
 
#234
Here's my take on the value:

A new rig is USD 5,000 list. I reckon nobody pays list, so I estimate the actual street price to be in the 0.8 * 5,000 = 4,000 ballpark. This rig is used but in good condition, so let's put it at 75% of (estimated) street, i.e. 0.75 * 4,000 = 3,000. I think the cases are worth around 500 (if you need them at all), so all in all I'd say that USD 3,500 is a fair price for the complete kit.
 
#235
lfh said:
Here's my take on the value:

A new rig is USD 5,000 list. I reckon nobody pays list, so I estimate the actual street price to be in the 0.8 * 5,000 = 4,000 ballpark. This rig is used but in good condition, so let's put it at 75% of (estimated) street, i.e. 0.75 * 4,000 = 3,000. I think the cases are worth around 500 (if you need them at all), so all in all I'd say that USD 3,500 is a fair price for the complete kit.
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That seems like a reasonable estimate. If I were in the market, I think I'd probably be offering $3k straight up and expect to wiggle a couple hundred up. And I think you're being generous at 75% of retail for it.
 
#236
Street price assumes that there's people carrying them in retail shops. As far as I know, there are a couple shops in Florida who might have them and a shop in eastern Canada. Other than that, you buy one from George. So, no retail price to make the comparison. If George manages to put together a distribution network, then the calculation might come into play, but until then, I wouldn't want to speculate about what a street price might be.
 
#237
According to the homepage there's a store in Georgia, too. However, I would think that as soon as there's one retail store, there's room for negotiation. IME if you walk into a music store and say that you're interested in [expensive Brand X], you're paying cash (and no trade is), and ask for a good price, chances are they'll work out a discount for you.

If we for the sake of discussion assume 10% discount instead, and factor in BurningSkies above remark, thereby now knocking off say 40% because the rig is used, we arrive at 0.9 * 0.6 * 5,000 = 2,700 and 3,200 in total (if 500 is a realistic value of the used cases). Either way we're obviously nowhere near 6,000. :)

Edit:
I hope the final price is published. Right now 36 persons are watching the auction.
 
#238
I figure mine isn't worth what I paid for it now that I have banged it around more than just a little. It has no market value of any kind until it gets sold. That one on ebay is going to be a marker, since there just aren't that many out in the wild yet, and they don't seem to change hands much.
 
#239
While there aren't 'retail' locations per-se, pretty much every person or company in the gear business plays the list v. street price game. IIRC, someone mentioned earlier in this thread that you shouldn't plan on paying the full $5K retail price on this amp directly from George.

To the same extent, when I bought several of my basses, the retail price was roughly 25% (this number may be plus or minus, just an off the top of my head ballpark percentage) off list price in either a store or from the source.

Also, very few niche market music gear items only take a 25% hit out the door.
 
#240
IFH.... 408 cab....

Frankly, I have never seen nor heard a 408 live. I am only going with comments from owner/ users..most prefer 408 over a 301..claiming 408 is even louder.

I haven't heard any ultra-light neo speaker cabs that are all the talk here, either. If modern speakers are so much better, then I would love to see/hear a 408 loaded with such speakers.

Many players continue to utilize 8x10 cabs and no one says they are obsolete, so why not 'update' a 408 with new and more powerful speakers? Better yet.. update the cab with new lighter construction materials....tone, volume and weight reduction.

..win....win....win..
 

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