New Band Check List

[bluewine]

Great thread Blue. Good chance to get a lot of points into one thread.

A few quibbles (or different perspectives) on:


PA rental cost, at least here, puts owning a PA into question. Renting is the best option if gigging once a month. If once a week, buy it. But you gotta have some vox amping for practices.

I'd rephrase the 'computer/cell' point to be something like 'Can I quickly contact each member if needed? And can they manage the information required to be in the band?' I've heard of far weirder things from musicians than computerphobia; if they can 'walk the walk' without one, I'd say it's all good. Phone contact issues when cancelling practice are easily solved by not cancelling. Phone contacting for short-notice gig availability is much quicker if the booker has everyone's availability on his booking calendar.

Thanks, and we are on the same page. I understand your economies on PA ownership, it's makes good business sense.

I will always be in bands that have the kind of gigs where once in a while a club won't have sound. So the idea of owninga PA has always been on my mind.

I saw a band the other night with some really decent Carvin subs , nice stage monitors a decent 32 channel board and high end mics for the drums.

They had a friend running the board who was really good.

I spoke with the guitarist, he purchased everything used, great system and great price.

 

[bluewine]

That's a good list. Very good. It'd be nice to add to the list - any substance abuse problems, but that's really hard to know about anyone until you get to know them. I guess that falls under the "good people, reasonable, professional" section of your list though. So that's covered.

For me it would be very important.I don't drink (at all) smoke or use anything.

I am far from perfect, but i have never been drunk or stoned in my life.

I am very uneasy around people that are impaired.Thats self induced impared.

 

[bluewine]

I like this thread a lot as I may be in the market for a new band soon. Good list Blue, thanks.

However, some of these points can't be known after one audition or even a few rehearsals, and some bands want a commitment right away when you accept the spot.

Can we get some dialog going on how to handle that, what is your experience getting bands to cooperate with a tentative agreement, how feasible is that???

I would like to tell bands that the deal will be on a trial basis, but I've never tried that and feel it might be off-putting to bands... your thoughts?

I agree and I think the trial committment is essential. However do we have to tell or anounce it's what we are giving them. I think it's almost implied that it's a trial.

None of are that good that we can see all the red flags, as you said some don't raise their heads for weeks or months.

 

[bluewine]

I've dealt with that as well, and I won't go there. I've been playing in this area for about a decade, and I've made some good relationships with other musicians. I'm not going to forsake the relationships I've cultivated, for the sake of a band, ever. If a good friend calls me for a sub gig, or I have an opportunity to jam with some great players, and I have the night free, I'm doing it.

I find that many professional groups will understand, and don't expect exclusivity unless they are doing more than 40 shows a year. But, if they do they need exclusivity, they need to have solid bookings or else it can make the band-leader look like they may have some control issues. You can't take exclusivity seriously if you only have 5 dates booked for the coming year.

You guys nailed it. No further comment.

blue

 

[bluewine]

I'm ok with old beat up stuff that works, good musicians can make lousy equipment/guitars sound good, and bad musicians with day jobs can have great equipment and still sound like hell.

Having said all that, I agree with you in principle... just that there's a bit of grey area. 100 watt PA and 15 watt practice amps aren't going to cut it in a decent sized club without an available club PA. The clubs around here aren't usually paying enough to justify renting a pa for the gig unless everyone is playing for fun instead of profit.

But great thread, and your original list is pretty darn good, I can't think of any improvements.
Randy

Thanks Randy,

I like where your head is at.

Cause after reading your response it made me remember the best musicians I have seen sometimes had god awful gear.

The band I was talking about, well, all they had were 15 watt, off brand practice amps and 3rd teir guitars, unknown brands. They didn't seem to know what aceptable gear was.

I guess thats relative though.

 

[jive1]

Having said all that, I agree with you in principle... just that there's a bit of grey area. 100 watt PA and 15 watt practice amps aren't going to cut it in a decent sized club without an available club PA.

On guitar, I've played plenty of gigs with just a 15 watt amp, and had no problem in terms of volume or tone. I'm looking at a couple of 5 watters at the moment.

Lots of gigging guitarists are trending towards lower watt, class A amps. There's lots of 5-20 watt amps playing small to medium sized rooms unmiced.

 

[GreggBummer]

Great list. Maybe even sticky worthy.

I'd add this (although you sort of covered it):

If you are a gigging band, you should have the financial stuff worked out. Who owns the equipment, how much does everyone get paid, percentages, and so on.

Some people avoid these conversations. I think it is good to have it early on. Everyone knows where you are coming from then. For example, I bought a 24 channel mixer for a band I played in. The next gig we played, I got paid for the mixer. The mixer was then "band equipment" and stayed with the band when I left. It was all worked out ahead of time.

 

[Dr_Funkdamental]

Great list. Maybe even sticky worthy.

I'd add this (although you sort of covered it):

If you are a gigging band, you should have the financial stuff worked out. Who owns the equipment, how much does everyone get paid, percentages, and so on.

Some people avoid these conversations. I think it is good to have it early on. Everyone knows where you are coming from then. For example, I bought a 24 channel mixer for a band I played in. The next gig we played, I got paid for the mixer. The mixer was then "band equipment" and stayed with the band when I left. It was all worked out ahead of time.

Beat me to it. Nobody likes to talk about this stuff, and they usually go, "Aww we can work that out as we go" or "Its cool, we'll figure it out" and its never figured out cause noone wants to be concrete about it. Esp. about gear, copyright percentages, writing/composing percentages.

Also, even assuming everyone is on the same page, discuss what happens if someone leaves the group. Say if you have original material, will they still keep their cut of royalties? Will you have to buy out their share of the gear they put in on? Its good to have the difficult stuff up front and laid out, even if you dont expect to go platinum or anything.

 

[Headless Llama]

nice list.

I especially like the part about learning material. This is the point in band life that arguments start, and people get upset at the members who are not contributing. (can you tell I have dealt with this?)

 

[Headless Llama]

And another thing, it is important to discuss setup and tear down. We have all been there! While playing a small bar, the amps and drums are enough to be heard. But, you have to bring a PA for the vocals, and the singer shows up 5 minutes before the show, and leaves after getting paid. BS I say!

 

[ChrisB2]

Thanks to everyone who commented on the "tentative commitment" question. Interesting...

I'll add one that's important to me that I didn't see posted yet:

Band Structure/Leadership - What is your band structure, do you have a leader or are you a democracy-type band? Who is in charge? What about the legwork, who is handling the website, booking, etc.

I've been in strongly led bands and democracy bands. I have my personal opinions on what I think works and like to know that going in.

Great list. Maybe even sticky worthy.

I think it would be cool to see Blue get a sticky. (Um, yeah, that sounded kinda gross.)

 

[bassphreak]

Great list and great comments. I'm the weekend warrior and the initial list nails the things I look for when looking for a band. I've landed with a group of guys where I can say check to all.

One thing to add is drinking at practices....this ties into the alcohol or substance abuse point but can be readily observable. I've been in bands where practice and drinking were intermixed. We didn't go very far. Nothing wrong with a beer at practice, but be on the same page. I dont want a guy to show up with a case of beer or a bottle of whiskey for practice.

 

[bluewine]

How to detect leadership,

After reviewing all the comments, this is one of higher level benchmarks for assessing a band potential.

How to detect good leadership. This is probably going to be different depending on your standards and the type of band it is.

I will give a personal example.

Leadership

First rehearsal with my last band. Female Lead singer is the band leader. Everyone arrives on time to a great rehearsal space with drums, PA, recording gear and good coffee.

The lead singer has a gregarious personality, articulate, confident and funny.
She goes to the White Board and writes “Get New Bass Playing Show Ready by June 30th” .

She outlines the songs that we had learned at would fine tune. Guitarist started talking about other songs he wanted to add Her response, “Not now, right now we need to focus on these songs” end of story.

We start rehearsing. She called the shots, if there was a problem spot she stopped the song and instructed where the problem was , what the problem was and where we were going to pick it up at.

She used the white board extensively. AT the end of the day we had a 2 hour rehearsal that could have easily been over 3 hours without leadership.


No Leadership

First rehearsal with the last band I auditioned with. Male Lead Singer is the Leader. Cramped rehearsal space with a marginal PA.
Side Note; This band picked material that they did not have the resources to perform

Lead Singer, very quiet withdrawn, not much of a personality.(this made me question , how is this guy going to front a band)

There was no plan for the rehearsal other than to play the 3 songs assigned.

The guitarist delayed everything going back and forth with me on drop tunings. This guy wanted me to tune my bass differently for each song and he didn’t even know the songs. Most of the rehearsal was wasted on this.

The leader did nothing to stop this problem. He also did not seem to notice that the drummer could not keep time. At the end of the day we wasted about 2 hours of time. As some of you know, I quit after the 4th rehearsal things got worse.

 

[bassbully]

Good post Blue. I feel if you, me, anyone sticks to basic questions you will weed out those you wouldnt want to work with or at least keep the chances of a bad seed from slipping thru.

My important rules are:

Liking the material -(Songs)
Enjoying the hang -(good people)
No drug issue -(none)
Average drinking as to not effect performances.
Band direction -where is it going?
Gigs -how many,where, when?
Equipment -all have? band PA?
Committment- Practices
Band history,direction
Fun!

I then investigate the members a bit and if the band has a history using myspace, google etc. I dont have time to waste and dont mind if a band does the same to me. If I was trying out for a good band I would approach it like applying for a job and give them detailed information on myself, my background and any recordings, videos I have played on. Being open and honest with myself and my abilitys is what has got me to where I am at so far as a bassist.
This has taken me way further than my skills as a bassist. I am decent as a player nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bassbully]

How to detect leadership,

After reviewing all the comments, this is one of higher level benchmarks for assessing a band potential.

How to detect good leadership. This is probably going to be different depending on your standards and the type of band it is.

I will give a personal example.

Leadership

First rehearsal with my last band. Female Lead singer is the band leader. Everyone arrives on time to a great rehearsal space with drums, PA, recording gear and good coffee.

The lead singer has a gregarious personality, articulate, confident and funny.
She goes to the White Board and writes “Get New Bass Playing Show Ready by June 30th” .

She outlines the songs that we had learned at would fine tune. Guitarist started talking about other songs he wanted to add Her response, “Not now, right now we need to focus on these songs” end of story.

We start rehearsing. She called the shots, if there was a problem spot she stopped the song and instructed where the problem was , what the problem was and where we were going to pick it up at.

She used the white board extensively. AT the end of the day we had a 2 hour rehearsal that could have easily been over 3 hours without leadership.


No Leadership

First rehearsal with the last band I auditioned with. Male Lead Singer is the Leader. Cramped rehearsal space with a marginal PA.
Side Note; This band picked material that they did not have the resources to perform

Lead Singer, very quiet withdrawn, not much of a personality.(this made me question , how is this guy going to front a band)

There was no plan for the rehearsal other than to play the 3 songs assigned.

The guitarist delayed everything going back and forth with me on drop tunings. This guy wanted me to tune my bass differently for each song and he didn’t even know the songs. Most of the rehearsal was wasted on this.

The leader did nothing to stop this problem. He also did not seem to notice that the drummer could not keep time. At the end of the day we wasted about 2 hours of time. As some of you know, I quit after the 4th rehearsal things got worse.

A good example of an established band and a good example of a bad start up type band. If you are an experienced established player ...which one would you want to work with?

 

[Blah114]

what are the goals? play live? how often? what are "rules" about fill-ins.. what if a player fills in, commits.. then the band gets an offer..

what is the lowest pay make?

does the person bringing PA get more money? how much?

who does the website? facebook? who wants to? who currently does? What's it like?

Demo?

Video?

Pics?

What clubs do you want to play? What material will it take to get there/in?

Can the singer pull two nights in a row? Let's be realistic.. FRI/SAT possible?

what clubs are we going to contact?

do we want to use an agent? if so, how much % does that person take? do we go "exclusive" if that person demands it? [that means the guy takes a cut of ALL your shows, even ones you book on your own].

How often is practice necessary?

Who is going to put together the setlist? Can "I" have some input or say regarding the songs? How accessible is the current list? We need 50 songs minimum.. what do you all know so far?

What is expected of members regarding bar tabs? Does the entire band pay the tab? or is each member on his/her own? (assuming clubs don't give a free tab that night).

What is the farthest club you're all willing to play for the money?

 

[bluewine]

On guitar, I've played plenty of gigs with just a 15 watt amp, and had no problem in terms of volume or tone. I'm looking at a couple of 5 watters at the moment.

Lots of gigging guitarists are trending towards lower watt, class A amps. There's lots of 5-20 watt amps playing small to medium sized rooms unmiced.

Like my Fender blues Jr. I consider a 15 watt Class A tube amp more than suffiient with a decent PA.

 

[sleepytime]

Leadership

First rehearsal with my last band. Female Lead singer is the band leader. Everyone arrives on time to a great rehearsal space with drums, PA, recording gear and good coffee.

The lead singer has a gregarious personality, articulate, confident and funny.
She goes to the White Board and writes “Get New Bass Playing Show Ready by June 30th” .

She outlines the songs that we had learned at would fine tune. Guitarist started talking about other songs he wanted to add Her response, “Not now, right now we need to focus on these songs” end of story.

We start rehearsing. She called the shots, if there was a problem spot she stopped the song and instructed where the problem was , what the problem was and where we were going to pick it up at.

She used the white board extensively. AT the end of the day we had a 2 hour rehearsal that could have easily been over 3 hours without leadership.

If I come into a situation where no one is leading, I will attempt to step up and run things in just this manner, and I don't care if I'm the new guy. If there is a "leader" who does not lead, I will reassure him that he makes the decisions, but I will run the rehearsals. It takes a bit of political savvy, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It has been my experience that many "musicians" will fight leadership with every passive-aggressive weapon they have at their disposal. Something as simple as running through four bars of a chorus is like pulling teeth. If this is the case, I will exchange info with the players I'd like to keep in touch with, if any, and I'm out of there. Life is too short for head cases and rank amateurs.

Some will say "Lighten up and have some fun.", others will believe that accomplishing something and improving is fun. I'm not talking about boot camp here, just a bit of focus and having goals.

 

[tharv]

That's a good list. Very good. It'd be nice to add to the list - any substance abuse problems, but that's really hard to know about anyone until you get to know them. I guess that falls under the "good people, reasonable, professional" section of your list though. So that's covered.

I guess along the substance abuse lines, I'd add this idea:

If you have a chance to check the out the perspective band live, do it. If you see someone drunk on stage, act accordingly.

That's what happened in my last project. I saw them before I auditioned. The singer was pretty drunk. Went to the audition anyway. They were all really cool guys. Only average(ish) players. (can't call them musicians, but that's another story) I liked the song list. So, after 2 get togethers, they offer me the job & I take it. I ended up playing 3 shows with them. The singer was sloppy drunk for 2 and wasn't far off that for the third. After the third show, I gave up and quit.

Wish I would just passed after seeing the problem when I just went to watch them.

 

[BassChuck]

Do they like a lot of different kinds of music and are they into music apart from just playing it?

This is something that's an absolute must for me. I don't really want to be in a band with someone that listens to nothing but power metal or nothing but punk rock from '76-'84, etc... I've found that people that are into and expose themselves to a lot of different music are more creative, open-minded, and easier to work with when it comes to writing and arranging.

thanks for posting this. It's way at the top of the list for me. Music is an evolving art and always will be. Players who have limited themselves to one or two styles will be far more likely to fall in love the basic cliches and not be open to experimentation and growth.

Trying new ideas is the spice of life. Failure is a valid human experience.... don't be afraid.