New Bergie sealed 410

[shoot-r]

I'm surprised that the implication that Mr. Bergantino basically doesn't know what he's doing has been made, repeatedly in this thread, even by fans of other products of his...

I think this was "maybe" aimed in my direction....

Not sure where you came to the conclusion that anyone was questioning Mr. B's design abilities, I certainly wasn't, what was said was some of us Berg fans simply don't see where a rear-firing driver would be of "any" advantage on the stages 'WE" play on, but a cabinet with all front-firing drivers in a taller cabinet would be of great interest to players in my circumstances.

The band I work with does a bunch of large stage shows/out-door fair dates across a 6-7 state area every year during the spring, summer and fall months.
I can't recall a single gig where a back wall would have been even remotely close enough to be used as a reflective surface for a rear-firing driver.

Plus, I think it's good for the users of a manufacturers product to give feed-back on what would be useful to them for that manufacturers future products.

 

[Fuzzbass]

The band I work with does a bunch of large stage shows/out-door fair dates across a 6-7 state area every year during the spring, summer and fall months. I can't recall a single gig where a back wall would have been even remotely close enough to be used as a reflective surface for a rear-firing driver.

Earlier I stated that the rear speaker might be ineffective when playing outdoors without a reflective surface behind the cab. I also stated that I wasn't an audio engineer. Someone else pointed out that lower frequencies are omnidirectional, which is true, so I'm sure my statement was inaccurate.

It's also worth noting that the HG410 will, at worst, give you a really nice 3x10 cab. Even outdoors with no wall behind, my HG310 stack definitely seems to deliver as much volume as my NV610. My rock band plays LOUD, and both rigs keep up in those conditions. Maybe I'm pushing the HGs harder than the NV to get that same volume outdoors, but there isn't a drastic change to my amp settings.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Mr. B, maybe a tall version of the NV610/NV610T also while I'm wishing?

I totally get the taller amp thing. That's why I'm going to keep my HG310 stack, and not get the HG410. I assume a pair of HG310s is quite a bit more expensive than one HG410... but I've already paid for 'em. Also, the HG410 looks to be taller than most 4x10 cabs, so there's that.


Oh: if you want a taller NV610, have you considered a vertical NV212T stack?

 

[kevk]

I was an early adopter of 2x HG310’s...they are a fantastic sealed cab, with honestly...a niche all their own. I’ve since moved on to the Reference (322) cabs, as I really prefer ceramic woofers. But the tweeter (in both the HG and REF series) is second to none!

Regarding HG tone, I can’t add anything more than what’s been said by @Fuzzbass, @tombowlus, @SCT1422, and @bebass...

Jim marketed the HG310 as primarily an acoustic cab, but stated that it would also work for electric bass...and it DEFINITELY does!

Unless I missed it, “acoustic” wasn’t mentioned in the HG410 description, so I’m interested to hear Jim’s comments (maybe a descriptive clip from his NAMM booth) regarding the HG410, and more detail where he views it in his product line up...

Anxious to read the NAMM HG410 demo reviews! It’s a Berg...we all know it’s going to sound awesome!!

 

[bebass]

...
Oh: if you want a taller NV610, have you considered a vertical NV212T stack?

Funny, I was looking at the NV212T and thinking about that today. A vertical stack like that would indeed be impressive.

 

[kevk]

Funny, I was looking at the NV212T and thinking about that today. A vertical stack like that would indeed be impressive.

If the NV212T had the HG/REF tweeter... drool

 

[bebass]

I think this was "maybe" aimed in my direction....

Not sure where you came to the conclusion that anyone was questioning Mr. B's design abilities, I certainly wasn't, what was said was some of us Berg fans simply don't see where a rear-firing driver would be of "any" advantage on the stages 'WE" play on, but a cabinet with all front-firing drivers in a taller cabinet would be of great interest to players in my circumstances.

The band I work with does a bunch of large stage shows/out-door fair dates across a 6-7 state area every year during the spring, summer and fall months.
I can't recall a single gig where a back wall would have been even remotely close enough to be used as a reflective surface for a rear-firing driver.

Plus, I think it's good for the users of a manufacturers product to give feed-back on what would be useful to them for that manufacturers future products.

A couple of years ago I was playing around with an idea of a column type vertical 410 with a mid-array. Just about the time that I was thinking of producing an experimental prototype along came Mr Genzler’s Bass Array speakers so I nixed the idea. If you like sealed speakers then the 2x NV212T idea may be the ticket. Although that is a small footprint for the height, so stability may be the issue. Which may would also be the problem with my idea above and possibly with what you are suggesting as well.Taller equals smaller footprint.

 

[Munjibunga]

I think this was "maybe" aimed in my direction....

Not sure where you came to the conclusion that anyone was questioning Mr. B's design abilities, I certainly wasn't, what was said was some of us Berg fans simply don't see where a rear-firing driver would be of "any" advantage on the stages 'WE" play on, but a cabinet with all front-firing drivers in a taller cabinet would be of great interest to players in my circumstances.

The band I work with does a bunch of large stage shows/out-door fair dates across a 6-7 state area every year during the spring, summer and fall months.
I can't recall a single gig where a back wall would have been even remotely close enough to be used as a reflective surface for a rear-firing driver.

Plus, I think it's good for the users of a manufacturers product to give feed-back on what would be useful to them for that manufacturers future products.

I think Jim's initial intent for the HG310 was mainly for acoustic instruments but it turned out that they also work very well for electric, as many have discovered. Maybe the HG410 will be a viable alternative to a stack of two HG310s. In buying any cab or combination of cabs one has to consider the type of gig he will be playing and what the appropriate form factor is for the cabs. Some people may need a couple fridges while a 210 will work perfectly well for others. I play mostly indoor gigs with some semblance of a stage so I think the HG410 could be a good match. I may try the HG410 with my HDN212 together ... let's see ... what would that be called?

 

[Fuzzbass]

I may try the HG410 with my HDN212 together ... let's see ... what would that be called?

HGDN622.

 

[bucephylus]

This is all very cool. But, I don’t intend to replace my pair of AE212’s, until an NV310 appears. And, yeah, I know all about He11 freezing over.

The NV610 is still my live reference. Problem for me is I just don’t have room for it and smaller cabs in my limited closet space. I get it that the new HG410 is probably another flavor of killer. Still, it’s not an NV. I’ll change cabs when I can do the NV610 modular. If that never happens, I just live with my shortcomings.

Oh, and an NV410 and NV210 combination would also be acceptable. See, I’m flexible.

 

[tombowlus]

Played the HG410 at NAMM, and it did not fail to deliver on all promises. The same great HG310 sound, but more low end heft and presence, deeper response, and more overall volume. Well done, Jim!

 

[Doner Designs]

No official review (yet), but I've been gigging my HG310's for a while now, and there is no specific drawback which I can identify with the rear-facing woofer. Maybe it would be a bit louder if the box were larger and that driver was on the front baffle, but that defeats the compact design. If anything, the rear-facing woofer is an asset that most other cabs cannot match.

I agree that the real magic of the HG is the tweeter and crossover, and the way they blend in with the response from the drivers. I've talked with Jim about the HG410, but I have not heard one in person yet. Looking forward to checking it out at NAMM!

What he said.

 

[Doner Designs]

I've been using my HG310 cabs for over a year. Tweeter is the best I've ever heard in a bass cab. I love that they are sealed -- it's the main reason why I like them much more than the CN210 and CN112 cabs I'd used previously. More comments below.






I'm spoiled by the NV610 also! As I've said dozens of times, it's the best cab I've ever owned or heard. I use it every chance I get, however it's too big for half of my gigs, and I also leave it at home when there's a tricky load-in. The reason I chose HG310s as my secondary rig is that they are light, modular.... and sealed. They have the sealed punch, but then they also have that neo vibe. They are DEFINITELY NOT an NV cab. I can get the HGs to sound very good, but my ears will never like them as much as the NV610.






Not in my experience. I've used the HG310 in many dodgy situations (I'm a jack of many bar bands), and they actually sound better than the ported cabs I previously used in those same situations. My first thought is it's because they are sealed, but it's probably more complicated than that.

I'm no audio engineer, but the only negatives to the rear placement that I can imagine are as follows: you might lose the benefit of the rear speaker when playing outdoors where there's no reflective surface behind you, or when the rear of the cab is placed against something like a heavy curtain.

I try to keep the cab at least 10" from the wall. The speaker cable pretty much guarantees 4", but I don't know the minimum recommended distance. @bebass , do you know?

And what he said.

 

[Doner Designs]

I have a pair of the HG310's and can't imagine a better cab. On the HG410, I think it would have been interesting if two of the drivers were put on the back instead of one (to reduce the size and weight to be like the 310 but with an extra driver). Or, maybe one on each side. Since bass frequencies are not terribly directional, I don't think you lose much by moving some of the air out back and there are benefits in some situations.

Besides just being a great sounding cab, I love the 310 for being sealed and for the fact that it's the size and weight of a 210. It also has the same cone area as a 212.

For my 60 year old back, the size and weight of a 212 or 410 are prohibitive. The HG410 is borderline and probably a tad too big and heavy for me.

Even though I can't imagine ever even needing two of the 310's at a gig, I keep thinking about getting a third just because a 910 stack would be friggin awesome.

 

[MobileHolmes]

In buying any cab or combination of cabs one has to consider the type of gig he will be playing and what the appropriate form factor is for the cabs. Some people may need a couple fridges while a 210 will work perfectly well for others.

I think that's a critically important point. Not all genres/venues/gigs need the same gear. It's really nice to have a choice.

 

[tombowlus]

I think that's a critically important point. Not all genres/venues/gigs need the same gear. It's really nice to have a choice.

Trust me, I have milked that particular sentiment to the max!!!

 

[Jim Bergantino]

Trust me, I have milked that particular sentiment to the max!!!

Ya think so! ;-}

 

[Jim C]

I was an early adopter of 2x HG310’s...they are a fantastic sealed cab, with honestly...a niche all their own. I’ve since moved on to the Reference (322) cabs, as I really prefer ceramic woofers. But the tweeter (in both the HG and REF series) is second to none!

My HT322 is an awesome cabinet that has clarity, punch and full range sound to die for.
I've added heavy duty casters as well as a 3/4" piece of plywood to the bottom of the box for a really secure set of wheels.
The only downside: 98 lbs.
Just turned 60 and the size and weight keeps it at home for anything but large gigs.
Looks like a Berg lightweight 2x12 is a good direction for me.

 

[JoePP]

I would love to see a conventionally loaded (i.e., all front firing) sealed HD 310, stackable to become a modular sealed 610, or even a sealed vertical 410 + 210 with conventional loading. I just don't see the benefit of rear firing speakers on large outdoor stages with no back wall, or even large indoor stages where the backline is several feet off the wall. Although I'm sure the rear firing design provides great benefits on tight stages with close walls, the existing HG series just seems to be added expense/weight in extra drivers that aren't serving any purpose I those open back situations.