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New Demeter bass power amp.

#26
rmars said:
Demeter is really missing the boat not putting their pre together with a lightweight class D poweramp, not sure why they don't want to make that jump with many people moving away from heavy rack systems.
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Because not everyone cares for class D. If this is based off the prototype that James had at NAMM, this amp is really, really good.
 
#27
I inquired, got an email back from James D saying that the amp is "class H amp with a linear power supply. It is not a class D it is class A/B for the first 300 watts and class H for the rest. We are waiting for chassis design. It will take about another 6 months before production."

I'm definitely interested, especially now that I've read Roger's comment above.
 
#28
R Baer said:
Because not everyone cares for class D. If this is based off the prototype that James had at NAMM, this amp is really, really good.
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I can understand that and appreciate that James is doing his own thing. No doubt the new amp will sound great.

That doesn't change the fact that as a long time Demeter 201(s) user (18yrs) and someone who recently jumped on the micro head bandwagon I would love that tone, simplicity and portability in something the size of a Shuttle.

I know, I know, you can't have your cake and eat it too..... darn those old proverbs!
 
#29
It's also a matter of some designers wanting to create new designs vs. just dropping in a $50 off the shelf class D module into their product. A ground up class D is a very expensive undertaking due to all the certifications it has to pass, including FCC.
 
#30
I remember Jim Bergantino and Bob Lee going at it. IIRC the topic of conversation was Lead Sleds and Gain Matching. They would argue for days on end. I think you can find most of the battle in Crest CA9 threads.
 
#31
R Baer said:
It's also a matter of some designers wanting to create new designs vs. just dropping in a $50 off the shelf class D module into their product. A ground up class D is a very expensive undertaking due to all the certifications it has to pass, including FCC.
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Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. I'm sure there wouldn't be much satisfaction for James in just dropping an off the shelf power unit in something he puts his name on.

Did I mention I love my VTBP-201s? LOL! I guess for now if I want light I will just have to power it with my Shuttlemax or pickup a QSC GX7 or Peavey IPR....
 
#32
Red Planet said:
I remember Jim Bergantino and Bob Lee going at it. IIRC the topic of conversation was Lead Sleds and Gain Matching. They would argue for days on end. I think you can find most of the battle in Crest CA9 threads.
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"days on end" is right...... I wonder if I would get a perverse sense of satisfaction powering my Berg cab with a QSC amp after having read thru pages of those arguments.... FWIW I have a lot respect for both those guys and I like the irony.
 
#33
Big toroidal transformer like this bad boy
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with the amp in this picture. But it is not revolutionary. It's old technology. It's just brute force old design. It totally rings of marketing focus group of asking a bunch of players what they think they want. "White box" design that thinking what's inside somehow matters over actual real world performance.

Demeter proclaiming "Linear Power Supply" :rollno:
What's so linear about rectifying 60hz using rectifiers and extra big caps to try and smooth the bumps out? There's better ways of producing solid DC power from AC input than assuming it takes a big transformer.

There is no major power amp maker that is researching to build new models of class-ab with chunky transformers. It's over. And it's all quality, top quality. Real world performance. They will still sell the class-ab huge transformer models they already have as long as people buy them. The cost is going to get higher and higher. Weight, copper, and wasted power are not getting cheaper.

It get's a little tired by the class-d misinformed, but some of the amp head makers smart enough to pick up off the shelf PWM modules are adding plenty of value like very musical limiting of signature sound quality. It's not just picking up an amp and stuffing it in a box.
 
#34
:rollno:
seamonkey said:
Big toroidal transformer like this bad boy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the amp in this picture. But it is not revolutionary. It's old technology. It's just brute force old design. It totally rings of marketing focus group of asking a bunch of players what they think they want. "White box" design that thinking what's inside somehow matters over actual real world performance.

Demeter proclaiming "Linear Power Supply" :rollno:
What's so linear about rectifying 60hz using rectifiers and extra big caps to try and smooth the bumps out? There's better ways of producing solid DC power from AC input than assuming it takes a big transformer.

There is no major power amp maker that is researching to build new models of class-ab with chunky transformers. It's over. And it's all quality, top quality. Real world performance. They will still sell the class-ab huge transformer models they already have as long as people buy them. The cost is going to get higher and higher. Weight, copper, and wasted power are not getting cheaper.

It get's a little tired by the class-d misinformed, but some of the amp head makers smart enough to pick up off the shelf PWM modules are adding plenty of value like very musical limiting of signature sound quality. It's not just picking up an amp and stuffing it in a box.
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Didn't see that coming. ;) If you had actually heard the Demeter amp, rather than just knocking it based on your perception of the technology's limitations, then you would know that it is a pretty impressive sounding amp. Believe it or not, not every bass player is obsessed with the weight of their gear. Sure, dropping in a class D modules is a great way to dramatically lower the cost of your product and up your bottom line, but not every company out there has that as their main focus. Hats off to guys like James and Dave Funk for sticking to their designs beliefs and building the type of amps that they want to build!
 
#35
R Baer said:
Because not everyone cares for class D. If this is based off the prototype that James had at NAMM, this amp is really, really good.
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Can't speak for others, but I was not denying that the amp sounded good - it probably does. What I take issue with are the marketing claims.

FWIW, I have yet to spend any quality time with Class D amps. One of these days I would like to do some listening tests.
 
#36
R Baer said:
Believe it or not, not every bass player is obsessed with the weight of their gear.
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+1

What I am concerned about is long term reliability/durability. Time will tell, but I wonder if a lot of the new lightweight stuff will still be going strong 5-10 years from now, and how manufactuers are planning (hopefully) to support their current products with spare parts since a lot of it can't be repaired at the component level. I'm not a fan of the throwaway mentality that has become so prevelant in the last few years, and I hope the lightweight stuff doesn't end up in that camp.
 
#37
JGR said:
+1

What I am concerned about is long term reliability/durability. Time will tell, but I wonder if a lot of the new lightweight stuff will still be going strong 5-10 years from now, and how manufactuers are planning (hopefully) to support their current products with spare parts since a lot of it can't be repaired at the component level. I'm not a fan of the throwaway mentality that has become so prevelant in the last few years, and I hope the lightweight stuff doesn't end up in that camp.
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Is there really any connection between class of amplifier and longevity though? Acoustic Image stuff has been around a long time (15 years or so?)...Walter Woods even longer. I don't know that their failure rates are any different than other amps out there?

OTOH, I'd love to see more point-to-point circuitry in newer, more affordable amps, if that's what you're saying.
 
#38
Aram said:
Is there really any connection between class of amplifier and longevity though? Acoustic Image stuff has been around a long time (15 years or so?)...Walter Woods even longer. I don't know that their failure rates are any different than other amps out there?

OTOH, I'd love to see more point-to-point circuitry in newer, more affordable amps, if that's what you're saying.
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Not to de-rail the Demeter thread, but I don't see why reliability of class D should be an issue. I would expect these amps to be very reliable in the long run. SMT is certainly never going to be as easy to repair as a board with through hole components by your local tech, though.
 
#39
Aram said:
Is there really any connection between class of amplifier and longevity though? Acoustic Image stuff has been around a long time (15 years or so?)...Walter Woods even longer. I don't know that their failure rates are any different than other amps out there?

OTOH, I'd love to see more point-to-point circuitry in newer, more affordable amps, if that's what you're saying.
Click to expand...

I honestly have no idea - I've seen some claims that they may have a somewhat limited lifespan, but I have no idea if there is any merit to it. I hope they end up lasting a good long time and that manufactuers have some way of supporting them if they need to be repaired down the road.
 

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