New Design In Development-Completely Reimagined Sitting Posture

[scolaney91]

Hello everyone, I'll start with a disclaimer about my "commercial user" status. I have read the rules very carefully and believe I am within the exception listed at the bottom of the rules:
"
Exceptions
--Threads may be created in order to solicit user input and opinions regarding a product in development. Any abuse of this exception will not be tolerated.
"

I'm just a guy. I don't work for a company, my product is in development, not for sale. I bought a 3d printer to modify a bass in a way that I've had in mind for years. I've been playing for nearly 20 and teaching for about 5. BA in music, serious musician blah blah blah.

I am looking primarily for feedback, opinions, etc. for my idea and design. I have made a video explaining it which you can watch here:


Everything is explained in the video, but the short of it is that my design achieves the same posture when you are sitting as when you are standing. It is extremely comfortable and ergonomic, and that is my priority before aesthetics. I address other ergonomic issues such as balance, neck dive, right arm posture/wrist bend. Please check out the video. Thank you for your time and attention.

 

[mellowgerman]

Hats off to you for thinking outside of the box and taking on some legitimate problems that bassists absolutely wrestle with. I'm sure some folks here on the forum will throw shade at the concept, probably just due to the aesthetics or because they're cranky, but there's no doubt in my mind that a number of full-time musicians I know could benefit from this. Really anyone who's playing seated, while practicing or logging sessions for multiple hours daily. Even if the aesthetics don't work for them, an affordable version of this design could make an excellent practice or recording tool. I also know players young and old who have existing physical ailments and choose their basses specifically for ergonomics, with little regard for aesthetics. So I think you're totally onto something here that has the potential to help a lot of people.

I've given ergonomics a lot of thought too, mainly finding that my lanky stature doesn't really gel with basses that have narrow bodies, from treble-bout to bass-bout, because of the same wrist angle issue you mention and because they tend to make me slouch. So I love my wide semi-hollows like Guild Starfires and the custom in my profile photo. That's just been my experience though. In my late 30s, my shoulders and back are still fine and I no longer play 3-4hour gigs, so I'm not very sensitive to weight and playing standing with a good strap keep weight from being a big issue for me. At this point in my life, I don't think your design would be for me, but that's mainly because I don't play music full-time anymore, just a free-time creative outlet these days. That's fine though, I'm just not your target demographic... or at least not yet. Maybe that will change as I get older and start developing pains in my wrists.

Again though, I admire the time and effort you've put into it and always appreciate seeing things that can be a big help to people!

 

[Watchootognbout]

Sit using "classical style"and use a strap.
Sit on the edge of the seat so that the lower edge of your bass is below the seat.

 

[scolaney91]

Hats off to you for thinking outside of the box and taking on some legitimate problems that bassists absolutely wrestle with. I'm sure some folks here on the forum will throw shade at the concept, probably just due to the aesthetics or because they're cranky, but there's no doubt in my mind that a number of full-time musicians I know could benefit from this. Really anyone who's playing seated, while practicing or logging sessions for multiple hours daily. Even if the aesthetics don't work for them, an affordable version of this design could make an excellent practice or recording tool. I also know players young and old who have existing physical ailments and choose their basses specifically for ergonomics, with little regard for aesthetics. So I think you're totally onto something here that has the potential to help a lot of people.

I've given ergonomics a lot of thought too, mainly finding that my lanky stature doesn't really gel with basses that have narrow bodies, from treble-bout to bass-bout, because of the same wrist angle issue you mention and because they tend to make me slouch. So I love my wide semi-hollows like Guild Starfires and the custom in my profile photo. That's just been my experience though. In my late 30s, my shoulders and back are still fine and I no longer play 3-4hour gigs, so I'm not very sensitive to weight and playing standing with a good strap keep weight from being a big issue for me. At this point in my life, I don't think your design would be for me, but that's mainly because I don't play music full-time anymore, just a free-time creative outlet these days. That's fine though, I'm just not your target demographic... or at least not yet. Maybe that will change as I get older and start developing pains in my wrists.

Again though, I admire the time and effort you've put into it and always appreciate seeing things that can be a big help to people!

Thank you for the thoughtful feedback. I do feel that I'm going to face the most resistance from tradition itself. Hopefully I will be able to make more prototypes for people to try, because it's tough to fully understand how it feels to play just by looking at it.

 

[scolaney91]

Sit using "classical style"and use a strap.
Sit on the edge of the seat so that the lower edge of your bass is below the seat.
View attachment 7482925

I understand what you are showing me, and I have seen this technique before. Is it comfortable for you to play on the 1st fret in that position? Do you regularly play that way daily? Your right hand technique looks like free stroke, not rest stroke. There's nothing wrong with that, but it also isn't what I'm addressing. My design is about halfway between what your picture is, and where a normal sitting posture tends to be. Both are too extreme. Both are different from a standing posture. In this picture your back is leaning to the side to compensate for the neck being way too far that way. I address the idea of classical guitar technique directly in my video, please watch it so you understand my reasoning better.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Bargain at that price (sold, I know).

I understand what you are showing me, and I have seen this technique before. Is it comfortable for you to play on the 1st fret in that position? Do you regularly play that way daily? Your right hand technique looks like free stroke, not rest stroke. There's nothing wrong with that, but it also isn't what I'm addressing. My design is about halfway between what your picture is, and where a normal sitting posture tends to be. Both are too extreme. Both are different from a standing posture. In this picture your back is leaning to the side to compensate for the neck being way too far that way. I address the idea of classical guitar technique directly in my video, please watch it so you understand my reasoning better.

Yes.I can reach the first fret.I raise the neck up a bit more.
Yes.This is the way I play all the time.
Right leg playing is unnatural for Me.
I'm leaning because the human body is flexible .
I don't sit with bolt straight posture every single time.
I am not a girder.

As for plucking,I don't use the same technique for everything.
Free stroke.Yes.
Rest stroke.Yes.
Slap.Yes.
Four finger technique.Yes.
Pick.Yes.

 

[Ellery]

Oh yes, this is just what the ‘62 P-bass w/ tort & flats crowd have been waiting for.

 

[scolaney91]

Yes.I can reach the first fret.I raise the neck up a bit more.
Yes.This is the way I play all the time.
Right leg playing is unnatural for Me.
I'm leaning because the human body is flexible .
I don't sit with bolt straight posture every single time.
I am not a girder.

As for plucking,I don't use the same technique for everything.
Free stroke.Yes.
Rest stroke.Yes.
Slap.Yes.
Four finger technique.Yes.
Pick.Yes.

I appreciate your feedback. Respectfully I find the in between leg posture very uncomfortable/unbalanced, and it messes with the technique I have practiced and gotten used to over my life. I have seen some pros such as Hadrien Feraud who play like this so it is definitely viable. But we will have to agree to disagree. There are plenty of pros (and non pros) who play sitting with a standard right leg posture, and my design is primarily targeted towards them. Either way I do appreciate hearing from you, truly. Thank you.

 

[J_Bass]

Hi, this looks like a good idea!

I play a lot seated, and I always play with the bass resting on my right leg. I never liked the classical position, always felt very uncomfortable to me. Not to mention the angle that it puts the neck in, with the first frets very high and far away.

Is this design intended to be a new bass body design, or a device you could attach to a regular bass? I think the latter would be the only way for the product to be viable.

Also, I think that the lever that rests on the left thigh should be adjustable. The player should be able to choose the angle of the neck. I play with the neck more parallel to the ground, for instance.

That upper right arm rest should allow for the player to play in various right hand positions. Not only behind the pickup, but also on top of it, and closer to the neck. I couldn’t understand if that is possible with the current design.


I think this is a cool idea and I congratulate you for thinking outside of the box and trying to improve our playing!

Cheers!

 

[monsterthompson]

As someone who exclusively plays while sitting, this is interesting. My preference is for the neck to be lower because of issues with my left shoulder. The angle of the model here wouldn't work for me, but I'm an outlier.

Aesthetics will be a challenge. I almost wonder if doing something like using a Steinberger shape and mounting a framework to it with the desired contact points would be a way to leverage an existing (though still unconventional) shape and get the positioning desired..

I want to see where this goes.

 

[winegamd]

The classical style pictured, I feel, is still the most ergonomic. You can avoid having to turn your body if you just let the neck angle away from you. When you are playing lower on the neck, you dont have to angle since you're not making room to access the upper frets. Classical position also doesn't shift much if you transition to standing if your strap is adjusted correctly.

In the video example, the right wrist was still bending and the neck access isn't any better. The standing posture was also different than the seated posture because your strap isn't adjusted for the instrument position to stay the same.

To me, classical has been developed, tested, and proven ergonomic over hundreds of years, but its not rock and roll. It seems you are trying to make a hybrid position that isn't going to solve ergonomics as well as the classical position, and requires a bunch of goofy looking mechanic assistance that isn't any where near esthetically pleasing.

 

[Why Nautilus‽]

I’m going to say this would be something I’d want

I would recommend making the lower horn fit a bit more…design wise with the rest of the instrument.

Conversely, make the rest of the instrument more minimalist to match your lower horn.

 

[scolaney91]

Hi, this looks like a good idea!

I play a lot seated, and I always play with the bass resting on my right leg. I never liked the classical position, always felt very uncomfortable to me. Not to mention the angle that it puts the neck in, with the first frets very high and far away.

Is this design intended to be a new bass body design, or a device you could attach to a regular bass? I think the latter would be the only way for the product to be viable.

Also, I think that the lever that rests on the left thigh should be adjustable. The player should be able to choose the angle of the neck. I play with the neck more parallel to the ground, for instance.

That upper right arm rest should allow for the player to play in various right hand positions. Not only behind the pickup, but also on top of it, and closer to the neck. I couldn’t understand if that is possible with the current design.


I think this is a cool idea and I congratulate you for thinking outside of the box and trying to improve our playing!

Cheers!

Thank you so much for this feedback and here are the answers to your questions:
1) Q: Is this intended to be a new bass body design, or an attachment? A: Unfortunately due to the placement of the right leg cutout, the design overall is mostly subtractive. Meaning I cut off a huge chunk of wood from a cheap pbass and then printed minimal parts to go in that spot to make this. I understand this is a huge limitation and it's one of the first things I've been asked by other people. I'm not sure how to solve it because it is so central to the design. Any ideas appreciated.

2) Q: Adjustable levers? A: Yes, the length and also the angle of the bass neck are already adjustable in my current design. This is addressed briefly towards the later half of the video.

3) Q: Arm rest allows for various playing positions? A: It does, thank you for asking for clarification. It has a nice tapered angle that has a wide playable range. More pictures attached showing that.

You get a behind the scenes preview of how I balanced the weight of this cheap Amazon bass, see if you can spot it and enjoy haha

Thanks again so much for your interest.

 

[scolaney91]

As someone who exclusively plays while sitting, this is interesting. My preference is for the neck to be lower because of issues with my left shoulder. The angle of the model here wouldn't work for me, but I'm an outlier.

Aesthetics will be a challenge. I almost wonder if doing something like using a Steinberger shape and mounting a framework to it with the desired contact points would be a way to leverage an existing (though still unconventional) shape and get the positioning desired..

I want to see where this goes.

Thank you so much for your input. Yes the aesthetics are something that needs to be addressed to make this marketable, thus viable at all. The way it looks now is a huge improvement from where it started lol. If anyone has any other ideas on aesthetic choices while keeping the same functionality please let me know

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The ergonomic benefits need to be greater than any perceived negatives in the looks department.

 

[scolaney91]

The classical style pictured, I feel, is still the most ergonomic. You can avoid having to turn your body if you just let the neck angle away from you. When you are playing lower on the neck, you dont have to angle since you're not making room to access the upper frets. Classical position also doesn't shift much if you transition to standing if your strap is adjusted correctly.

In the video example, the right wrist was still bending and the neck access isn't any better. The standing posture was also different than the seated posture because your strap isn't adjusted for the instrument position to stay the same.

To me, classical has been developed, tested, and proven ergonomic over hundreds of years, but its not rock and roll. It seems you are trying to make a hybrid position that isn't going to solve ergonomics as well as the classical position, and requires a bunch of goofy looking mechanic assistance that isn't any where near esthetically pleasing.

I agree that my strap and standing posture aren't perfect with the bass, which is addressed, it is out of the weight distribution being bad, which has nothing to do with the design itself and everything to do with it just being a prototype made of cheap parts.

I disagree completely and find it wrong for you to say that classical technique has been tested and proven ergonomic over hundreds of years. You are talking about guitar technique, an instrument that mostly uses free stroke and has a shorter scale length. My personal technique, and a lot of other bass players technique is based heavily off Jaco, for example, where I am using a lot of rest stroke, nearly all the time. Bass guitar technique is anarchy and seems to not have an agreed upon "correct" way like guitar does, because we have to make compromises due to the size one way or the other. I promise my design is the best posture I have personally found for playing bass guitar. But seeing is believing

 

[J_Bass]

 

[scolaney91]

The ergonomic benefits need to be greater than any perceived negatives in the looks department.

You are absolutely right as much as I hate to admit it. I am open to ideas on making it more aesthetic, and I am still brainstorming some myself. Perhaps the entire bottom part could be detachable and interchangeable with different parts if you don't want the fold out while you're standing in a performance.

 

[Fierzzaga]

Hey there, so I'm writing my comment BEFORE I read any other comment posted because I want to focus on my initial thoughts without any influence from naysayers that may pop up (it's social media, right?)

That being said, I think the idea you have is pretty freaking cool! You're right when you said you want to focus on playing your instrument rather than fighting it while you play it, which is a total waste of energy.

Additionally I agree that folks may look at what you've proposed and because of asthetics and/or tradition will write this off. Poppycock, I say! At the end of the day we are trying to make music and because something looks different or is really far outside the box of what has been accepted is no reason to deride alrernative designs. The mindset of "this is how we've always done it" does nothing but keep you where you've always been. I applaude you for putting the work in both mentally and mechanically to try something new.

I do hope someone out there reaches out to develop this with you, and I'd get in line to give it a shot if that happens. Heck, even before that, if you need testers. Glad to see innovation and forward thinking that could help people keep make music with less strain as they progress deeper into their lives. I'm impressed!

 

[scolaney91]

I’m going to say this would be something I’d want

I would recommend making the lower horn fit a bit more…design wise with the rest of the instrument.

Conversely, make the rest of the instrument more minimalist to match your lower horn.

Thank you so much for this feedback. To be honest the horn was like a quick first attempt curve without much thought put into it, still up to change aesthetically!