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New developments, promising science
- Thread starter basscooker
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,094
- 5
- 221,224
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, iirc the low frequency sensitivity was pretty terrible and while the mids were ok singly, there was plenty of lobing and directivity issues when combined with multiple panels. As a line array, the lobing artifacts might be less offensive, but a 12' array with low sensitivity has limited appeal (IMO)
I'm pretty sure that's totally different (electrostatic) technology (going from hazy memory here)
Yep, your right, my mistake. Whenever I hear flat panel speakers I think of these. I had an old friend that had a set.
The big Magnapans sound wonderful -- incredibly transparent. No crossovers. The only possible problem with them (unless your significant-other objects to the appearance 
) is they won't quite do loud rock-and-roll levels. Plus, they need a huge amp unless you use a transformer to get the output voltage up high enough. But they're full-range electrostatic panels -- that's completely different from the Styrofoam panels, which had conventional dynamic, voice-coil type drivers that used the Styrofoam as the radiator instead of a paper cone. Those really didn't work at all; I mean, they made sound, but had pretty pathetic response, as Andy correctly recalls. The appeal was they were relatively cheap and could be easily built into a wall or ceiling and painted to match.
) is they won't quite do loud rock-and-roll levels. Plus, they need a huge amp unless you use a transformer to get the output voltage up high enough. But they're full-range electrostatic panels -- that's completely different from the Styrofoam panels, which had conventional dynamic, voice-coil type drivers that used the Styrofoam as the radiator instead of a paper cone. Those really didn't work at all; I mean, they made sound, but had pretty pathetic response, as Andy correctly recalls. The appeal was they were relatively cheap and could be easily built into a wall or ceiling and painted to match.
This kinda thing...The big Magnapans sound wonderful -- incredibly transparent. No crossovers. The only possible problem with them (unless your significant-other objects to the appearance
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Or...
Do you mean these Yamahas?
Or the KEF B139?
Both the Yamaha and the KEF have a styro core.
The Magneplanars are a quasi-ribbon.
Bluetooth teeth?It would be cool if I could just open my mouth and sound would come out.
Not speaking as we currently have but real "Sound" like a PA or cab.
Maybe somehow also utilize our eyeballs as speakers or passive radiators like all the Bluetooth speakers do.
I think I'll be dead once something truly earth shattering comes along in the way of amplification again, but who knows? At any rate, technology is only impressive if it's useful IMHO. I don't like "because I can" tech at all.
I'm a recently formed sound-tech and for all I know and have seen, most technical advances had happen when there was an obvious problem to solve, and we can see that statement during the human history, but sometimes tradition keeps thing from propperly evolving tho.
But before talking about amps and speakers, let's preface some context about the instruments themselves, because it makes thing even more interesting.
I always say that basses are more up for improvement and technical advantages than guitars on a general basis (and we can see that on the amps too, but let's talk a thing at a time). And we can see that throught modern music history. The main reason for that I think it's because the guitars reached a cultural iconic status throught the 2nd half of the XX century (in other words, tradition), since the bass always where kind of a supporting role in music (but very, very important), let me explain, for almost all the guitar-based music throught the years, the guitar sound where the center of attention (there ar exceptions I know), so the sound of the bass always had to be adaptative to those changes (even in other genres) that made more likely to appear technical improvements on the instrument and the people actually using them on a regular basis, I can write some examples but this reply can get really long tho.
On the amp depparment things are not as different, since the guitarist are still using valve technology on a regular basis (or valve-sound emulation), for obvious reasons. But I've seen bass amp brands making smaller and smaller amp heads also lighter, of all kinds, from solid state to valve or hybrids, I seen that on the guitar world but without such success (I think because of what I mentioned), so google and compare by yourself, there are a lot more small high-quality amp heads than on guitars. But that's in my opion is a big advance, from a fridge-size amp to table-size, being able to fit a 800W bass head on a big enought pedalboard! (look what GK is doing nowadays, it's so cool).
For the bass cabs there are also physical size reasons, you need a big enought speaker to produce the lowest frequencies naturally, and also the enclosure has to be designed very carefully, to help the speaker into going even lower, there are a very complex science behind that, also several decades ago there where actual labs testing whatever speaker design, so the speaker cones with the membrain we have now are the ones that performed the best, where the safest and can be made more easily than other designs. And I think unless we discover another type of technology that can make sound more efficiently and effectively that electromagnetism, we will be staying with it for a very long time.
But I have to say this too, the future on the stages seems to be no amps, just the PA system and a very well made monitoring system (IEM or not). Of course we love our amps, having them on stage and feel the growl comming out from the speakers but I'm seeing nowadays clean / no-amp stages more often, and there are some technical reasons behind that. First, less noise on stage can make the PA mix way more clean and flexible across the venue, being better for the audience, also there is a general rule to have less volume on the actual stage than the rest of the venue, so you can make a clean PA mix without muddiness, some say -10dB difference.
Also with all this new amp simulation and DSP technology being heavily improved for the last 20 years, you can run a single amp simulator directly to the stagebox withou any cab, also I can tell that the shows I've worked on that used ampsims, and just some kind of monitoring systems (IEM or not) where pretty clean and straight-forward sounding shows. But I totally agree that there's nothing like the actual real thing, even the best amp simulator can't give the experience of having whatever amps you like, but certainly more people are choosing amp sims nowdays for their go to choice for many different reasons. But I have to say, I've seen a lot of bands working with those kemper thing lately on a live enviroment, but when it comes to studio sessions, the real thing is still the go to option for obvious reasons.
I remember a bunch of years ago somebody was working on inflatable speaker cabs, the idea being you could haul what amounted to a compact package of driver cones in plastic bags, inflate them on-site and hey presto a PA system.
Since the cabinets would by definition be flexible, they were designed to radiate sound on all sides. But I guess among other problems that would make them hard to stack.
Since the cabinets would by definition be flexible, they were designed to radiate sound on all sides. But I guess among other problems that would make them hard to stack.
They were BES speakers, came as full standalone units or smaller drive units for ceiling/wall mounting. My mum had a pair that she got from an employer as back-pay owed. This employer was importing them at the time. They were quite large ( although not deep ) and sounded a bit "compressed" and un-detailed. I had a pair of dynaudio 21w54 based speakers that I'd built that blew them away, made them sound like an old 3in1.
It would be cool if I could just open my mouth and sound would come out.
Not speaking as we currently have but real "Sound" like a PA or cab.
Maybe somehow also utilize our eyeballs as speakers or passive radiators like all the Bluetooth speakers do.
And the Bass Face is born!
I like this idea! Similar to the benefits of a parts bass, as you mention. Imagine plug-and-play electronics, e.g. different options for pre-amp and power-amp, e.g. SS vs. Tube pre-amp for either section etc.; different options for speakers, and.... the option of unfinished raw materials for the cab so you can paint it, stain it, put textured vinyl wrap, the wooly "fur", whatever... Don't know if such a thing exists, but you may have just found your "side hustle"!!!
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Oooh, how about an entire dance floor of buttkickers and headphones. Then I wonder why though.....
I dunno, maybe I'm not as forward thinking. The latest tech for me is using a preamp/pedalboard and IEMs. And I'm liking analog pedalboard gear over digital, too. There's enough digital in the instrument wireless, digital mixer, and wireless IEM system--all of which is a great use of digital tech. The one thing that lacks for me in that setup is the physical thump factor--usually I try to find a subwoofer to stand on, but maybe I should look for a buttkicker board for that purpose.
The parts to make a platform still still available. I'm not so sure the "Buttkicker" brand pre assembled ones I was using is still being sold. It's also a little pricey because not only do you need a platform with a driver, mine had a 1,000 watt amp to drive it.
The first time I was aware of this technology was at the movies in the late 60s-early 70s that used
"SenSurround". I can't remember if Earthquake or Towering Inferno was the first.
The first time I was aware of this technology was at the movies in the late 60s-early 70s that used
"SenSurround". I can't remember if Earthquake or Towering Inferno was the first.
I just grabbed a drummer stool with a buttkicker in it. It does the trick and I don't have to stand while practicing.
Somewhat related question: what was the verdict on "isobaric" cabs (e.g. Orange OBC212), which IIRC had some buzz 5-10 years ago? They seem to have since fallen out of favor.
Well looking at developments in materials, maybe some application of graphene, carbon fibre or aerogel?
Electronics - can't really change classical physics, so a new Class "X" topology? Or perhaps quantum electronics so we can have Ampeg and/or Mesa at any given moment?
Signal processing - how might AI be applied to bass amp? Could an amp "learn" how you play and adapt its power/tone accordingly?
Electronics - can't really change classical physics, so a new Class "X" topology? Or perhaps quantum electronics so we can have Ampeg and/or Mesa at any given moment?
Signal processing - how might AI be applied to bass amp? Could an amp "learn" how you play and adapt its power/tone accordingly?
