New developments, promising science

[Redbrangus]

They seem to have since fallen out of favor.

I don't think they ever were truly IN favor. Modern driver technology has produced motors with sufficient strength that makes the concept of using drivers in tandem more or less obsolete. IMHO, anyway.

 

[abarson]

I like this idea! Similar to the benefits of a parts bass, as you mention. Imagine plug-and-play electronics, e.g. different options for pre-amp and power-amp, e.g. SS vs. Tube pre-amp for either section etc.; different options for speakers, and.... the option of unfinished raw materials for the cab so you can paint it, stain it, put textured vinyl wrap, the wooly "fur", whatever... Don't know if such a thing exists, but you may have just found your "side hustle"!!!

Markbass did introduce a modular system (MoMark) with interchangable preamps, etc. It didn't sell well and was soon discontinued. I think once you find your sound you aren't going to be swapping modules, especially not mid-gig.
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They are attempting a modular cabinet approach with the new AMS line, but I think many players aren't going to like the deep format, as it will eat up stage footprint quickly. I know that's my disincentive.
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[agedhorse]

The parts to make a platform still still available. I'm not so sure the "Buttkicker" brand pre assembled ones I was using is still being sold. It's also a little pricey because not only do you need a platform with a driver, mine had a 1,000 watt amp to drive it.

The first time I was aware of this technology was at the movies in the late 60s-early 70s that used
"SenSurround". I can't remember if Earthquake or Towering Inferno was the first.

Except that Sensurround did not use that technology, or anything similar even.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Except that Sensurround did not use that technology, or anything similar even.

'Huh. Learn something new every day. Thanks. Again…LOL!!

 

[two fingers]

I think bass amps days are numbered. The continuation of line array / digital mixers at lower prices and you'll see AI in the digital mixer. Just identify what each channel is, bass, vocal, guitar, kick, etc and you'll have the equivalent of an individual sound engineer on each channel and an AI "bot" to monitor the overall mix and sub mixes a thousand times per second.

This. Backline will be a thing of the past in relative few years.

 

[Bassamatic]

Interesting thread.

• The "Speakerless PA" with wireless headphones has been done. There are several demos at NAMM that do this so they are not competing with the noise.
  
• The servo speakers were too limited in frequency response and only really did sine waves well. Sensurround from Cerwin-Vega used giant horn type subwoofers that used the walls of the theater as the final part of the horn. Incredible lows and used HUGE amps. Gene was certainly the master of the low end.
  
• Speakers have certainly evolved well with low-weight and tremendous output levels. There are some makers of small (3")amazingly high output drivers that when put in a line array make a nearly invisible PA. Like those used in the Bose L1 system. JBL makes a fantastic all-in one battery powered PA for busking etc. that has a sub, line array, 6-channel mixer and Bluetooth. And it all folds up and rolls away after 6 hours of performing. I have heard it in action and it's incredible (JBL EON One)
  
• Our amps are doing really well with technology. We now have digital power supplies that work well with Class D outputs giving us really tiny powerful amps, and modeling and all kinds of digital processing. One of my engineers designs pedals for some of the biggies. He does it ALL in a single DSP chip with input and output drives included! He just does the software to suit.
  
• So what happened to the light wave non-magnetic pickups? Reading the string vibration with a photocell, etc.?
  
• The Idea of AI in an amp or mixer is not too far off. Since complex processing can be done in a single DSP stage, it would involve some further automation of the control circuits. I do think that some of the new smart speakers do this now, monitoring the room to adapt as the crowd changes.
  
• It will be interesting to see what develops in the future. Maybe a stringless bass that reads your hand movements like a Theremin?

 

[DJ Bebop]

Oooh, how about an entire dance floor of buttkickers and headphones. Then I wonder why though.....

I dunno, maybe I'm not as forward thinking. The latest tech for me is using a preamp/pedalboard and IEMs. And I'm liking analog pedalboard gear over digital, too. There's enough digital in the instrument wireless, digital mixer, and wireless IEM system--all of which is a great use of digital tech. The one thing that lacks for me in that setup is the physical thump factor--usually I try to find a subwoofer to stand on, but maybe I should look for a buttkicker board for that purpose.

I had thought about a jazz club with little to no central on the edge of the stage PA. All point to point at the table. Some kind of small speaker system on or over each table, with a volume control. Then a communal sub for the room.
After I figure out time delay from table to table. If close enough, maybe not so much. Then the background sound....

But the idea of more smaller speakers around than one big PA. Almost like IEM for the guest, but not the headphone iPhone thing.


Just a thought...

 

[ThudThudThud]

I'd perhaps be curious about speaker cone material. I think that right now, most are made of kevlar or something similar (metal cones notwithstanding). Lighter cone material with the same strength would feasibly lead to more precise cone travel (overcoming inertia), leading to less distortion.

However, I haven't read anything about new advancements in audio in terms of speaker design or building materials.

I seem to remember watching a British show called "Tomorrow's World" back in the 70s. Brits of a certain age may remember the show. Latest 70s technology showcase (things like "portable phones" the size of a suitcase, or cars with navigation systems on a tape...).
Anyway, one show featured a pair of stereo speakers where the 'cone' was actually a flame. Aside from all the obvious reasons (fire, death, overheating equipment, gas), I have no idea why this particular technology isn't extant. They'd certainly be lightweight!

 

[DJ Bebop]

I had thought about a jazz club with little to no central on the edge of the stage PA. All point to point at the table. Some kind of small speaker system on or over each table, with a volume control. Then a communal sub for the room.
After I figure out time delay from table to table. If close enough, maybe not so much. Then the background sound....

But the idea of more smaller speakers around than one big PA. Almost like IEM for the guest, but not the headphone iPhone thing.


Just a thought...

Back to the Future...

 

[smtp4me]

Markbass did introduce a modular system (MoMark) with interchangable preamps, etc. It didn't sell well and was soon discontinued. I think once you find your sound you aren't going to be swapping modules, especially not mid-gig.
[This invalid link has been removed]

They are attempting a modular cabinet approach with the new AMS line, but I think many players aren't going to like the deep format, as it will eat up stage footprint quickly. I know that's my disincentive.
[This invalid link has been removed]

Agreed. I'm thinking in terms of building an amp that has exactly what you want, from parts, but without having to make your own electronics. Again similar to a parts bass - you choose the woods, body shape, .... etc. ,and then you add tuners/bridge,pickups that someone else made. You can get the body pre-finished (stained/painted) or you can DIY. Granted, a separate head and cab(s) will give more options, but even then you are "stuck" with the specifics of that particular brand/model of head and cab.

 

[MVE]

I think the Kemper and Bergantino model of DSP based amps are really going to take of in the next few years.

DAW plugins are getting so good, why are we not all using them live for our instrument amps?

 

[fast slapper]

I've just ordered 2 versions of an about to be released driver in both paper and Al diaphragms to test for a commissioned speaker design and might get the Be's later. I suspect, based upon pre-release data that the Al version may be very difficult to make a passive xover for.

Are we talking about the Bliesma mid dome?

A couple Purifi woofers and Bliesma mids/tweeters....doesn't get much better for the size.

 

[juggahnaught]

They are attempting a modular cabinet approach with the new AMS line, but I think many players aren't going to like the deep format, as it will eat up stage footprint quickly. I know that's my disincentive.
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I personally think that the AMS line is an excellent idea (and I like the way the tweeter is integrated compared to their other offerings like the CMD121H). Although I can understand why users would dislike the depth, I also don't think the cabs are all that deep - they're three inches deeper than an Ampeg 410HLF. (Edit: The 12-inch cabs are that size. The 10-inch cabs are a couple of inches smaller, depth-wise, than the 410.)

However, I do think that the execution of the idea is fundamentally flawed. A line array of cabs like these only really makes sense if the cabs are powered. The way things are now, you are confined to a setup that measures 8 or 4 ohms (or maybe 2 depending on your amp), and you have to have a custom Speakon cable to make it all work.

The fundamental concept of a modular cabinet system is great, but I think they missed the mark. Powered cabs - chainable like a line array by using Neutrik PowerCon cables and XLRs - would have simply made much more sense and been much more flexible (and scalable). It also seems like it'd help make it a worthwhile purchase in the long run. I can't help but feel that in its current iteration, it feels a bit dumb and gimmicky.

 

[A9X]

Anyway, one show featured a pair of stereo speakers where the 'cone' was actually a flame. Aside from all the obvious reasons (fire, death, overheating equipment, gas), I have no idea why this particular technology isn't extant. They'd certainly be lightweight!

You can buy them now. They're just limited to HF and they don't have much SPL capability. The diaphragm might be low mass, but the electronics aren't.
Sit down when you ask what they cost.
Acapella Audio Arts | Acapella Classics

 

[ThudThudThud]

You can buy them now. They're just limited to HF and they don't have much SPL capability. The diaphragm might be low mass, but the electronics aren't.
Sit down when you ask what they cost.
Acapella Audio Arts | Acapella Classics

German audiophile stuff? Yes. Pricey.

 

[A9X]

Are we talking about the Bliesma mid dome?

A couple Purifi woofers and Bliesma mids/tweeters....doesn't get much better for the size.

Yep, but I was tired when I posted and meant the silk and the Al. I'll probably get a pair of the Be for my own build.
I've been designing with the Volts and ATC for years, and one of my systems is based around my SM75-150S, I'm just hoping these measure in the same ballpark and are a bit less expensive. Mine will be active with my new DSP.
I haven't decided on what drivers to use below yet, and have a few options.
Delivery is expected around April.

 

[CryingBass]

OLED displays are getting more-common and thinner these days.

Just add a rotating selector and change the color of your pickguard on the fly!

RotoTort anyone?

 

[fast slapper]

Yep, but I was tired when I posted and meant the silk and the Al. I'll probably get a pair of the Be for my own build.
I've been designing with the Volts and ATC for years, and one of my systems is based around my SM75-150S, I'm just hoping these measure in the same ballpark and are a bit less expensive. Mine will be active with my new DSP.
I haven't decided on what drivers to use below yet, and have a few options.
Delivery is expected around April.

I've always wanted to hear the ATC in action. Regretted not buying them when they were more accessible.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Bliesma's if they're anything like the T34A I tried.
Too many nice drivers to play with these days.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

OLED displays are getting more-common and thinner these days.

Just add a rotating selector and change the color of your pickguard on the fly!

RotoTort anyone?

Now there's an idea I could relate to, the light show could be actually coming off the guitars controlled by a laptop. Or even the band could wear OLED suits and face masks. That kind of thing would make me want to become a lighting engineer.

 

[A9X]

I've always wanted to hear the ATC in action.

They're pretty damn good and it's amazing that they're probably the best measuring mid driver and it's a 40yo design.

Regretted not buying them when they were more accessible.

I lucked onto the non S pair by chance and then was offered the S, and even though I didn't have a project for them, I had to buy. The Volts are about as good as the non S in many ways and still available. Not cheap though.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Bliesma's if they're anything like the T34A I tried.

I have some T25A, but haven't had a chance to play with them yet. If I get some of the M75B for myself, I'll get the T25B as well and make my idea of the Yamaha NS1000M, but active and with much, much better enclosures. As I already have the amps, cost looks like being not much more than a mint set of the Yammies.

What in my dreams I'd like to see would be the Bleisma dome with the Link Removed motor. I just don't want to have to pay for it.

I want some of the Accutons too, but I'm trying to fund a Klippel rig.