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New Efficient Cab for my V-4?

#22
For those of you with the old Ampeg cabs - they look very shallow. Mind sharing the external dimensions of the cabs?

(If I'm right, they'll be very close to Avatar's guitar cabs for the folks who are interested in the vintage sound, look, and a great price all new from a dealer.)
 
#24
johnk_10 said:
30Tx27Wx14D and built like a tank with four braces from the front baffle to the back of the cab.
Click to expand...

Avatar's 4x12 Traditional is listed at 29Tx28.5Wx12D.

Your Ampeg has a volume of 11,340in^3 minus all the space that's taken up by braces, baffles, speakers, etc.

The Avatar has a volume of 9,918in^3 minus roughly the same amount of space.

The Avatar has ~10% less space than the Ampeg. I'm not an expert so I can't say exactly how much of a difference that'll make (Bill or anyone mind helping me out with a rough guestimate?), but it'll give more of a mid-bump and a higher bass roll-off (ie less deep bass).

Plug in some DeltaLites into WinISD and you should be able to get a rough estimate of frequency response one could expect for under $600.
 
#26
Since this audio science thing is all new to me, I tend to geek over numbers a bit more than I used to, but numbers don't tell the whole story. They're great for predicting behavior with cab/driver interaction, but what counts is how you like the sound. It's not as important to go by the book when you're trying to create a tone, as opposed trying to reproduce a tone like a PA does. If you went strictly by numbers, they would show that the vintage Ampeg straightback 810's with the CTS speakers they used would be a poor choice for bass, when in fact it's the finest bass cab ever made.

However, doing the numbers can prevent you from buying a completely wrong-in-every-way driver for your cab, so it's not like they're not useful.
 
#27
JimmyM said:
numbers don't tell the whole story. .
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Actually, they do, when used correctly. The purpose of cab modeling is to know what a combination of drivers and cab will sound like without having to go to the time, effort and expense of building the cab to find out. For instance, if one wanted to precisely duplicate a '69 SVT using modern drivers one could do so, all they'd need is the 'numbers' of the original. Or you could build a box and load it with a few hundred drivers until you find what you're after. Those who complain that numbers don't matter tend to be those who have no understanding of what the numbers mean, or how to use them.
The Avatar has ~10% less space than the Ampeg. I'm not an expert so I can't say exactly how much of a difference that'll make
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I am an expert and I can't say either without knowing those pesky numbers. You can't compare box size alone, you need the driver specs to make an accurate assessment.
 
#29
dubstylee said:
Kappalite 3015's huh, any older enclosures that those are compatible with? I was even considering what johnk did and buy an old V-4 Cab and put Eminence Neo's in it. I bought my SVT-410HLF because I love low end, but I feel like the sound I really love is the low mids, and I think a sealed cab will do these better. I know the Ampeg 410HE doesn't get too much love around here, but I can't make an opinion because I've never used one.
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There are many, many old 215 cabs with internal dimensions appropriate for kappalite 3015s afaik. Measuring it is the easiest way to know.

I'd need to model it to see what it'd be like, but I think a 6cf ported enclosure tuned to around 55ish-hz would be the ideal for these drivers, maybe 58hz.
 
#30
billfitzmaurice said:
Actually, they do, when used correctly. The purpose of cab modeling is to know what a combination of drivers and cab will sound like without having to go to the time, effort and expense of building the cab to find out. For instance, if one wanted to precisely duplicate a '69 SVT using modern drivers one could do so, all they'd need is the 'numbers' of the original. Or you could build a box and load it with a few hundred drivers until you find what you're after. Those who complain that numbers don't matter tend to be those who have no understanding of what the numbers mean, or how to use them.
Click to expand...
OK, so they tell the whole story :D The one thing they can't predict is how a human will like the sound of a cab, unless of course they have a frame of reference to begin with. People like some oddball stuff sometimes, even cabs that have horrible numbers. But hey, you're the man when it comes to audio...didn't mean to make it sound like I was disagreeing.
 
#31
JimmyM said:
OK, so they tell the whole story :D The one thing they can't predict is how a human will like the sound of a cab,
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Of course not, that being a subjective assessment. That's not the point of modeling; the point is an objective method of achieving a desired subjective result, whatever that may be. I wouldn't use a modeling program to duplicate a POS cab, but the point is that I could if I wanted to.
 
#32
rpsands said:
There are many, many old 215 cabs with internal dimensions appropriate for kappalite 3015s afaik. Measuring it is the easiest way to know.

I'd need to model it to see what it'd be like, but I think a 6cf ported enclosure tuned to around 55ish-hz would be the ideal for these drivers, maybe 58hz.
Click to expand...

i agree, except that i kinda doubt that anyone would be able to tell the difference between a cab tuned to 55Hz and one tuned to 58 Hz unless there was a huge bump at that frequency.
 
#33
Well no, no one could tell the difference most likely but there's optimal and then there's not optimal, y'know? If you can add a half inch to your port and get better performance, why the heck not? :)
 
#36
johnk_10 said:
i agree, except that i kinda doubt that anyone would be able to tell the difference between a cab tuned to 55Hz and one tuned to 58 Hz unless there was a huge bump at that frequency.
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A few Hz can optimize things so that you are less likely to be able to bottom drivers. You have to balance unloading below fs and power demands above that.

Also, those bumps sound a little slow, so if you tune to minimize them or maximize them you are affecting the character of the enclosure somewhat.
 
#37
billfitzmaurice said:
I am an expert and I can't say either without knowing those pesky numbers. You can't compare box size alone, you need the driver specs to make an accurate assessment.
Click to expand...

Certainly. If one's goal is an accurate assessment, then all the parameters must be known and the variables accounted for.

However, the goal of a rough estimate is [IMO] to set the parameters close and allow for a range of variables. Will it be accurate? Certainly not 100% unless you get incredibly lucky. I wouldn't even call this an assessment. But it gets the general idea across - not with absolute accuracy, and depending on how strict one is, without any accuracy.
 
#38
dubstylee said:
Johnk, how is the low end with your V-4 cab? I'm really considering going that route, but I'm having a hard time finding one.
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the low end is full, smooth, tight and punchy. i couldn't be happier with it, and i prefer to use it over my SVT-810E and my SVT-610HLF. and the cab never even comes close to farting out no matter what i throw at it (i.e. even when cranking the bass control). not to mention that its ALOT lighter. i use a collapsible dolly with large wheels to schelp it.
 
#39
illidian said:
Bergantino? I know Tom Bowlus has raved about several of Jim's designs with tube amps.

I do love the NV series cabs with tube output stages. They are sealed enclosures, and they really sound great when driven by tubes (or SS for that matter). With regard to Jim's other designs, it's been somewhat hit or miss for me as to which ones work well with tube amps (and some do well with low-powered tube heads, but get a bit too much cone excursion with higher-powered tube heads).
Click to expand...

The NV series (610/215/425/412) are just great with tubes, though.

Doesn't Markbass offer some sealed cabs? They may even be Neos as well…
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Yes, the CL line are all sealed enclosures, and they do feature neodymium-based drivers. I reviewed the CL108 (8x10), along with the Classic 300, in issue #2. These are my favorite Markbass cabs, and they do of course work well with tube heads.

Tom.
 

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