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Double Bass New Gamut Red Diamond Gut Strings

#261
Povl Carstensen said:
On a fretted instrument, higher string height will result in increased stretching of the string = increased tension = higher pitch when you press the string down. So adjustment of string length (mensur) could be called for to keep intonation best possible. I agree that it does not make sense on db. On a fretless with markers, it does however.
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Yes I know. I do understand that different left hand finger position corrects any minor intonation issues on DB. I have a 6 string fretless that I have been playing for many years now. I have markers on the side of the fingerboard on that bass, and know how to set the intonation by moving each saddle either up or back to set the intonation for open, fourth and the harmonic on the fourth of that string, etc all the way to the 12th fret. I was just a bit confused about the raising or lowering the saddle height on the DB. It still doesn’t really make sense to me, but I will figure out a way to understand it once I have got more time on the acoustic DB. Even though even though I have been playing a 3/4 size EUB for several years, the acoustic DB is still a whole new animal for me. I’ll catch on, or drive you guys nuts picking your brains for information in this forum!
 
#262
DoubleMIDI said:
On an electric bass guitar both ends of the vibrating string are acoustically clamped (by tension and string angle).
On an acoustic DB only the nut end is completely clamped. The bridge moves with the top, so the coupling with the top (which is influenced by the pressure to the top which is a function of the string angle at the bridge) influences the players perception of tension (which does not change with different saddle heights). So the moving string end at the bridge which can be different for different saddle heights because of the response of the top moving due to the pressure.
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I just re-read your post DoubleMIDI!! The lightbulb lit up! I get it now. But let me make sure. In raising or lowering raises the pressure to the Bridge increases or decreases. So that makes sense it doesn’t have anything to do with string tension. It’s a resonance thing and you are looking for the sweet spot?
 
#264
AGCurry said:
The three variables of pitch of a string are mass, length, and tension. Since raising or lowering the saddle does not change mass or length, then tension must necessarily remain the same as well.
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Povl Carstensen said:
On a fretted instrument, higher string height will result in increased stretching of the string = increased tension = higher pitch when you press the string down. So adjustment of string length (mensur) could be called for to keep intonation best possible. ...
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Both of these discussions need each other to be correct...

The mass, length and tension relationship is correct as it relates to pitch, except that the tension portion does not take elasticity into consideration (Hooke's law, tension corresponds to elasticity in a linear progression). Together they work, separately they don't completely apply to real life stringed and necked musical instruments.

And, as I've learned here, this was actually a discussion about a double bass saddle, a very different thing from the bridge-saddle of many fretted instruments (except perhaps for those double bassists who tune their after-lengths). I confused the two saddle concepts, which led to a discussion of bridge parts, nuts, fingerboards and strings -- also an interesting discussion, but not the one posed by @SMollock in post #243. Sorry for the unnecessary confusion!
 
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#265
Don Hergert said:
Both of these discussions need each other to be correct...

The mass, length and tension relationship is correct as it relates to pitch, except that the tension portion does not take elasticity into consideration (Hooke's law, tension corresponds to elasticity in a linear progression). Together they work, separately they don't completely apply to real life stringed and necked musical instruments.
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You are correct in that the amount of string deflection required to stop a note has an effect on pitch, i.e., higher action would tend to sharp the pitch at a given exact position (because the greater deflection results in higher tension momentarily). But we have two options for string clearance from the fingerboard: Bridge and nut. I don't recall that either of those is under discussion.
 
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#266
AGCurry said:
... But we have two options for string clearance from the fingerboard: Bridge and nut. I don't recall that either of those are under discussion.
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This is true for the original discussion about a double bass saddle. If it wasn't for my confusion we probably wouldn't have even brought up fingerboards in the subsequent derail, but they did come up in discussion there. Btw, thanks to @shwashwa for the clarification!
 
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#267
Don Hergert said:
This is true for the original discussion about a double bass saddle. If it wasn't for my confusion we probably wouldn't have even brought up fingerboards in the subsequent derail, but they did come up in discussion there. Btw, thanks to @shwashwa for the clarification!
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Yes, and we have come far from "Red Diamond Gut Strings" ...:laugh:
 
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#268
2 shots of my adjustable saddle, which now is basically just a raised saddle, unless I completely change my setup someday
 

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#271
SMollock said:
I just re-read your post DoubleMIDI!! The lightbulb lit up! I get it now. But let me make sure. In raising or lowering raises the pressure to the Bridge increases or decreases. So that makes sense it doesn’t have anything to do with string tension. It’s a resonance thing and you are looking for the sweet spot?
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I would call it maximum vibrational transfer from bridge to top. Anything more and the top gets clamped by the high pressure From the bridge. If the bridge pressure is lower, the sound will be more quiet but not choked.

Elasticity has an influence how much mass will be present in the vibrational part as some mass vanishes into the pegbox during tuneing up.
But with the same string mensure, there is no difference in tension. It just makes a difference if you detune or use a different mensure.
 
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#274
Thomas88 said:
So are red diamonds any good?
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I have had them on my Kay for a few months now. I’ve had many types of gut string on, and these are very different. The wrap on the E and A string might be a little too coarse. Fundamental tone is nice, but I get a lot of metallic rasp on top of that, and they “creak” in the nut. I like a noisy bass myself, but most people I play with don’t have ears as advanced as mine, and prefer a cleaner bass. I have no complaints at all of the D and G, those are what guts strings are supposed to be.
 
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#279
Thomas88 said:
I really want to buy them but this thread seems to be a story of trying them and then fairly soon to classifieds
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From my experience, they are nice strings with all you can expect from gut strings and more. They are more stable and have a little less flexibility which I consider to be a good point, so are easy to match with more common strings on E&A. I put mine on the classified because of my actual project; I play a lot of bow and harmonics.
 
#280
Thomas88 said:
I really want to buy them but this thread seems to be a story of trying them and then fairly soon to classifieds
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they're nice but higher tenison strings than most gut strings. IMO these are a great gut pair for spiro mediums. I THINK I had them with evah lights and spiro mediums. Bow was what it was. I say try them. we got all this time to see if we like things. plus Slod has a good deal on the DG
 
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