Ok, RD D&G on their way, I miss that sound. I'm going to pair them with Spiro E and Jazzer A this time.
Cheers everyone!
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Double Bass New Gamut Red Diamond Gut Strings
- Thread starter Earl
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Ok, RD D&G on their way, I miss that sound. I'm going to pair them with Spiro E and Jazzer A this time.
Cheers everyone!
Gamut had 1 pack of Red Diamond G & D combo available at the start of June... So I bought them. Just received them today. Got them set up with old spiro weichs E & A. I've been fiddling around with a full set of Chorda Carlos Henriquez for a few years, swapping with Spiro Mittel E, A & D, Spiro weich E&A, Helicore Hybrid E, A & D, Oliv D & G..... I've tried all sorts of combos. Love the full Chordas but sick of tuning all the time, and possibly not the most versatile sound.
These Red Diamonds work beautifully with the Spiro weich on my bass. Higher tension than Chorda DG so work well at a lower string height (7mm G, 9mm E), good sustain (somewhere between Chorda and Oliv), and sound useable straight away. They are surprisingly 'gutty' still, basically sound like the chordas but with a bit more sustain, I was expecting them to sound more 'nylon'. I've played a set of Genssler wraps and they didn't seem as 'gutty' as these. D string is pretty fat next to the weich A string. Stoked!
These Red Diamonds work beautifully with the Spiro weich on my bass. Higher tension than Chorda DG so work well at a lower string height (7mm G, 9mm E), good sustain (somewhere between Chorda and Oliv), and sound useable straight away. They are surprisingly 'gutty' still, basically sound like the chordas but with a bit more sustain, I was expecting them to sound more 'nylon'. I've played a set of Genssler wraps and they didn't seem as 'gutty' as these. D string is pretty fat next to the weich A string. Stoked!
I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but I was reading in an article that you can raise your saddle height, and get much lighter string tension.
I think by raising the saddle, you in effect reduce the break over angle of the strings over the bridge, which reduces the loading of the top table of your bass, which (potentially) affects the response/volume of the instrument. The strings still have to be stretched to the same "tension" in order to tune them up.
yes but this can have an effect on how you perceive the tension of the string although the actual tension of the string does not change. I only know this because I have a bass with an adjustable saddle
If you had frets, you would hear your intonation change for specific locations on the fingerboard as you raise the action, because the distance to press the strings down to the fingerboard is increased, also increasing tension. So raising the saddle does affect tension for exact fingering locations, it's just that on a fretless fingerboard, played by an intonation-sensitive player, the intonation is automatically corrected.
raising the action and raising the saddle are two different things. Raising the saddle has no effect on the action, or string height.
Ahhh, sorry, my mistake... The saddle on the rest of my instruments is the height-adjustable part of the bridge. I didn't realize it's the part of the double bass that the tailpiece hanger rests on (since my double bass doesn't have a separate piece for that part).
So ... What is the advantage of having an adjustable saddle? I am aware I am aware of intonation, and positioning to correct it if it is a tad off in places when playing. I have very good pitch, and have experienced it on fretless instruments for years. I am new to DB, but have been playing stringed instruments for many years. Intonation is affected when the bridge is moved by different factors on different stringed instruments, but not from raising or lowering on a fretted instrument. if your bridge shifts position for whatever reason on a DB it would make sense to me that the intonation would change. From what I have read raising or lowering the saddle height increases or decreases the angle of the part of the strings after the bridge. So with that in mind geometrically thinking, as long as the bridge position on the on the table of the DB doesn't move from where it has previously been set for good intonation, then the intonation wouldn't change. However also geometrically thinking, decreasing the angle in which the string crosses the crosses the bridge from the saddle should decrease the string tension a bit?
I'm not sure all my terminology is correct with DB yet, but I have been playing stringed instruments for over 50 years. And that makes sense to me. So that being said, what is the point of raising or lowering the saddle if not string tension? In my understanding of stringed instruments the string length from the nut to the bridge is what changes intonation of the positioning. Hence fretted instruments have a saddle for each string to correct any intonation issues the player might encounter, and on fretted instruments the saddle and bridge position are controlled by the same what is known as the saddle. Raising the saddle does not change intonation, but moving it forward or backward the intonation is affected.
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No. The three variables of pitch of a string are mass, length, and tension. Since raising or lowering the saddle does not change mass or length, then tension must necessarily remain the same as well.
Well I guess I learn something every day AG. thanks! however you are stating that raising or lowering the saddle on a DB does change the string tension, which I agree with. So that being said, once you raise the saddle height you need to change the bridge position to correct any intonation issues? So if you raise the saddle height, you would need to lengthen the string length to correct the intonation hence tightening the tension back up on as DB? If that is correct wouldn't that make raising the bridge a moot point?
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No, you misunderstand me, so let me explain it another way.
We have a string which needs to be tuned a specific pitch. We do that by adjusting its tension. We do not change its mass or its speaking length.
Pitch is a function of mass, length, and tension. Raising the tailgut saddle does not change the string's mass or its speaking length. So if mass, length, and pitch do not change, then for the function to still yield our pitch, tension cannot change. This is math.
The bridge does not need to be moved.
So AG... Let me get this straight. I'm a little slower with DB technology still. does raising the saddle height alter the tension on the strings? If yes wouldn't this affect the intonation, and if yes how do you adjust the tonation on a DB? Thanks in advance!
You adjust intonation on double bass by moving your hand.
I have an adjustable saddle on my bass. The reason I did it it's because I wanted to experiment with the exact tension that this particular bass needed to speak most optimally. it turns out this base needs less tension downward on the top in order to vibrate freely. Now that I have the angle that I need the adjustable saddle is not useful anymore. It's going to stay where it is forever. in my experiments with raising and lowering the saddle I said that the perceived tension of the string does indeed change. I didn't say the tension changes I said the perceived tension changes. How it feels to the player. If you don't believe me get an adjustable saddle and try it
I have an adjustable saddle on my bass. The reason I did it it's because I wanted to experiment with the exact tension that this particular bass needed to speak most optimally. it turns out this base needs less tension downward on the top in order to vibrate freely. Now that I have the angle that I need the adjustable saddle is not useful anymore. It's going to stay where it is forever. in my experiments with raising and lowering the saddle I said that the perceived tension of the string does indeed change. I didn't say the tension changes I said the perceived tension changes. How it feels to the player. If you don't believe me get an adjustable saddle and try it
I'm not disputing anything in this conversation. I understand that position changes can correct the intonation of the instrument. I was just trying to understand how you if there is a way:
1. To adjust the intonation mechanically?
2. does the raised actually change the tension on the strings?
I have read articles stating it does, and as I said earlier I am new to DB, so I want to educate myself not only on the playing of the instrument, but also the mechanics of the instrument.
Thanks for your input!
No. The only way to adjust intonation - other than moving your left-hand fingers - is by moving the bridge; and even that is not really adjusting intonation - it only adjusts scale length. Moving the bridge will only shorten or lengthen the scale ("mensure"). Because there are no frets, there is no reason to do this. There is structurally one correct spot for a bridge on a bass.
No. As @shwashwa stated, it may change the perceived tension - how the strings feel to your hands. Actual tension is not changed.
On an electric bass guitar both ends of the vibrating string are acoustically clamped (by tension and string angle).
On an acoustic DB only the nut end is completely clamped. The bridge moves with the top, so the coupling with the top (which is influenced by the pressure to the top which is a function of the string angle at the bridge) influences the players perception of tension (which does not change with different saddle heights). So the moving string end at the bridge which can be different for different saddle heights because of the response of the top moving due to the pressure.
On an acoustic DB only the nut end is completely clamped. The bridge moves with the top, so the coupling with the top (which is influenced by the pressure to the top which is a function of the string angle at the bridge) influences the players perception of tension (which does not change with different saddle heights). So the moving string end at the bridge which can be different for different saddle heights because of the response of the top moving due to the pressure.
On a fretted instrument, higher string height will result in increased stretching of the string = increased tension = higher pitch when you press the string down. So adjustment of string length (mensur) could be called for to keep intonation best possible. I agree that it does not make sense on db. On a fretless with markers, it does however.
