New GK Lead Sleds

[TonyP-]

Wow, lots of arm chair quarterback comments.

Let me say that I'm one of the first to play it and nothing sounds like it…It's has a thick sounding beast.

I love my Legacy's but I love this guy as well.
It is there for those who want it. There was a demand for those who wanted a RB based amplifier again and GK provided it.

For those who have been waiting for this, you are going to love it.

 

[Slevage]

Interesting that GK released the new Legacy RB1001 and 2001. It'll be more interesting to see if they sell any! 1001 weighs in at 26 lbs?!?!

My Grandmother can lift 26 pounds and plays clarinet.

 

[mouthmw]

If that's the tone you are after, and you don't have to lug the amp around everywhere I don't see why the weight would be a deal breaker.

Oh I lug my GK 2001RB everywhere I play. I usually lug my whole rig from my basement to my car by myself too. That's GK2001RB and 410RBH. Not light weight cab either. I'm not in peak condition either, not the youngest anymore (39) either. Gotta have some workout, right?

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm getting serious GAS for the 1001 model, the sound samples are great and I really dig the look.

I had a GK MB500 that died, sound cut out. No luck with any local techs wanting to deal with class D, and out of warranty, so off to landfill it went. Ditto with a Peavey MiniMax 500, went bang and became a fancy paperweight. My Terror Bass is still kicking but has been repaired by a local tech, and gone back to Orange twice for repairs. Meanwhile my Hartke LH500 never skipped a beat and even a cheap Harley Benton class A/B head has kept on without hassle for years.

I don't think Class D is inherently less reliable or sounds worse or anything, but I've had enough hassle putting them in the van and playing gigs in various dives to feel completely comfortable with them. I'd much rather get one of these and be done with it.

My Harley Benton head is 25lb and is a one handed carry. I could buy two 1001s, put each in a decent rack case, and combined they'd still weigh less than our guitarist's Triple Rec in its flight case.

 

[el murdoque]

What I really fail to understand is where, in this modern world, you would ever need an amp that puts out 1200 Class H watts (which are supposedly much louder than Class-D watts, but not as loud as tube watts) on a stage.
I mean, we're talking about a minimum of an 8x10 speaker setup to take all that heat. What incredibly hostile environment are we talking about here?

 

[HeavyJazz]

Hmmm... I do welcome more "heavy" bass heads to the party, by all means. The feather-weight stuff is all well and good, but sometimes I jones for a traditional, take-no-prisoners, block of glorious tone. I'll look forward to trying one out at some point.

 

[rojo412]

Had an 800RB, it worked and sounded great, I loved it.
Had a 1001RB, it worked and sounded great, I loved it.
Had a MB2-500, it worked and sounded great, I loved it.
Had a 400RB, it worked and sounded great, I loved it.
Had a BL600, it worked and sounded great, I loved it.
Currently have an MB200 head, as well as an MB210 combo, they work and sound great, and I love them.

GK is my go-to bass amp company. I've tried many other brands in my years and they have matched what I wanted in amp sound, reliability, function, and I honestly don't find a need to look at anyone else. So as a devoted user, I'm quite sure these new amps are amazing.

As for 26 lbs being scary? Wow... I just don't have acceptable words for TB for that one.
Maybe the companies that make those darling little folding hand carts are in for a boost in sales, perhaps?

 

[MaxCellExcelWon]

As long as you are within rated clean power, Class H and Class D should sound pretty much identical (shouldn't that be eardentical? That should be a word!). However, the difference is when you push the amps into slight soft overdrive; i.e., power amp clipping.

Class D power amps don't like to clip. At all. It sounds horrible, then they shut down to prevent catastrophic failure if you keep pushing them too hard.

A big part of the GK "sound" and why some players prefer the lower-powered 400RB is because of how good driving the power amp into soft clipping overdrive sounds and feels (or "riding the rails" as GK calls it).

Class D can't do that. It's not designed for it, and has all sorts of big brother protections built-in to prevent such operation, as prolonged clipping simply destroys them if they don't shut down first.

Different design philosophies and different aural results.

 

[Stingray5]

I can't imagine GK didn't do their homework before investing in this, for example looking at sales of the Trace Elliot 1200/Pro line released a few years back (20lb head, 90lb cabs). If there's a market for that then there should be a market for this?

 

[2saddleslab]

These new RB's are a great addition to the GK lineup. Some will love them, some will prefer the class D weight convenience. Just nice to have options, well done GK!.

Still enjoy & love my original "lightweight" amp alternative, the 1001RBII.

 

[MaxCellExcelWon]

I can't imagine GK didn't do their homework before investing in this, for example looking at sales of the Trace Elliot 1200/Pro line released a few years back (20lb head, 90lb cabs). If there's a market for that then there should be a market for this?

I see your point, but the Trace 1200 (Class D) head itself weighs 11.5lbs; the shipping "dimensional weight" is indeed about 20lbs however.

 

[shoot-r]

I'm currently looking into new gigging amp/heads.

Gonna put some research into the new 2001.

 

[Michedelic]

Can't lift 26 lbs.? Time to hit the gym.

 

[agedhorse]

Class D power amps don't like to clip. At all. It sounds horrible, then they shut down to prevent catastrophic failure if you keep pushing them too hard.

This is simply not true. Class D amps, when properly designed, do not suffer from any of this.

A big part of the GK "sound" and why some players prefer the lower-powered 400RB is because of how good driving the power amp into soft clipping overdrive sounds and feels (or "riding the rails" as GK calls it).

Class D can't do that. It's not designed for it, and has all sorts of big brother protections built-in to prevent such operation, as prolonged clipping simply destroys them if they don't shut down first.

This too isn't correct (2nd paragraph). It most certainly can be designed for this if that's the designer's intent and the designer has the necessary skills.

Class AB/G/H amps can also be destroyed by prolonged clipping, and often were back in the good 'ol days. Designers had to protect their amps from that as well.

In actuality, class D amps are now more reliable than class AB/G/H amps ever were, though the best class D amps and the higher quality class AB/G/H amps are closer in reliability than the mid quality comparisons.

Different design philosophies and different aural results.

Of course, that applies to all amps regardless of operating class.

 

[agedhorse]

All these comments about class D amps being unrepairable are incorrect. I have been successfully repairing class D amps for 18 years now without any problems.

Leach of repairability falls into 3 distinct categories:

1. A lack of manufacturer commitment, the manufacturer chooses not to support their product and/or technology.

2. Technicians simply do not have the necessary skill set to be able to troubleshoot and repair the amp. (this most certainly applies to class AB/G/H amps as well, I've seen plenty of butcher repair attempts on both types)

3. It makes no economical sense to repair an amp that was originally designed to be disposable. This is generally at the lower end of the market, when the amp can be replaced new for $199 with a new warranty, it doesn't really make sense to attempt a repair (especially when many techs these days struggle to tie their own shoes).

Regarding cost of repair, it generally costs less to repair a class D amp than it does a class AB/G/H amps of a similar power rating. Not always, but almost always… especially if any shipping is involved.

I've designed all classes of amp, I know very well the pros and cons of design, performance and support of these different product types. If class D amps are failing at a higher rate, there's a design issue not a technology issue.

 

[GKid]

Jokes and irony aside, I understand. You're not a weirdos, you just have different taste and needs.
If that's the tone you are after, and you don't have to lug the amp around everywhere I don't see why the weight would be a deal breaker.

But I'm curious though: did you try the GK class D heads and didn't care for them?

It's generally admitted that the power section don't have an inherent tone, so in theory the same preamp into a class D or class H power section should sound identical. Is there a real difference, maybe in dynamics more than tone?

I've tried both and prefer the RB power section .. I A/B'd the Legacy 800 to the 700rb-II . the Legacy was a bit more "boxy" and stale to the RB , and the RB was a bit looser and slightly compressed compared to the Legacy . both had the heft and punch , but to my ears the RB was closer to a tube power section without the tube sag.
the Legacy 800 slices through a mix like a hot samurai sword through butter , gets edgy-er and angry-er than the RB , and I think thats in part due to that class D power section , because it was tighter and had more focus than the RB.
When i plugged the Legacy into the RB effects return to have the Legacy front end and RB back end, It was closer in comparison to the RB , which is exactly what this new Legacy RB is . but also , these differences were minimal

in agreeance with you , most power sections don't have an inherent tone , but to me account for half the amp ... plug a GK into the effects return of a tube amp and it becomes a whole different amp. which is why a lot of guys plug VT pedals into GK power sections ...its the best of both worlds

 

[MaxCellExcelWon]

This is simply not true. Class D amps, when properly designed, do not suffer from any of this.

This too isn't correct (2nd paragraph). It most certainly can be designed for overdrive if that's the designer's intent and the designer has the necessary skills.

Right.

As long as you only overdrive your Class D amp roughly 25% of the time:

I used to slam my 400RB into overdrive for entire 3hr sets and never worry about it. Same for my old Peavey Mark III...that DDT "soft limit compression" light was always on 100% of the time.

I never said, "Whoa, I better pull back to roughly 1 minute's worth of overdrive in this 4 minute song!"

Ridiculous.

 

[BaltBass5]

How times change! When the first RB amps came out, they were considered light because of the enclosure using metal rather than using wood. Today when we almost need to duct tape our class D heads to cabs, 26 pounds seems heavy by comparison.

My AI Coda and Contra combos each put out 400W RMS and weigh 20 pounds including a 10" woofer, 5" midrange and 1" tweeter, while GR Bass makes an 800W 1-12 combo that weighs only 20 pounds. My 450W Walter Woods head is 7 pounds, my 250W TC BH250 head is 4 pounds.

But 26 pounds isn't that heavy for an amp head. An SVT head is 85 pounds. A V4B is 41 pounds, etc.

I still own an SVT-CL, a V4B, and an Ashdown ABM 500….They all stay in the studio.

I play 100+ shows per year so I prefer my Mesa TT800 or D800+ which can get me pretty damned close to all 3 of my studio heads in tone.

Hell, I can bring both Mesa's and still be at about 40% of the weight of these new GK's! Lol.

 

[BaltBass5]

Not "anyone," though things are trending in that direction.


Conceptually that is correct hence the trends. But lots of bands still prefer old school and I expect it will stay that way for many. Check out Justin Chancellor's rig which is 3 GK 2001RBs. Flea's was the same before he moved to Ampeg (which he still uses). Plenty of smaller venue acts use the 2001's as well.

The class D amps are powerful but if they go down, you replace the amp. And they are fragile in the context of roadies moving/tossing gear around.

I would assume JC is using (1) 2001 that is hot and the other 2 are hot spares. He also uses IEM's so stage volume is most likely minimal. (In fact I saw Tool on this last tour from pretty close to the stage and couldn't pickup stage volume over the FOH).

Honestly, if someone else was hauling my gear around and setting it up for me I'd probably do the same but mostly just because I could. I'm sure that JC is really dependent upon those 2001's because that's what is part of his signature tone. He uses a TON of effects and doesn't want to deal with those reacting slightly different to different amps.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the 1001 and 2001 amps, I used a 1001 for a while. It was a killer amp! I just think that with the amount of choices out there it seems that a 26 lb head has a limited market. I can't imagine that it would do anything that my Mesa's won't that would make it worth the extra 20 lbs.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Right.

As long as you overdrive your Class D amp only 25% of the time:

View attachment 7133872

I used to slam my 400RB into overdrive for entire 3hr sets and never worry about it. Same for my old Peavey Mark III...that DDT "soft limit compression" light was always on 100% of the time.

I never said, "Whoa, I better pull back to only 1 minute's worth of overdrive in this 4 minute song!"

Ridiculous.

I think you altered "roughly 25%" to "only 25%" to meet your goals. It's a suggested setting to tell you that if the light flashes, you're ok. Don't over-read it.