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new mesa all tube amp ?????

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#81
I was fortunate to own a Mesa M6 at the same time as my Mesa D-180 and 400+ and experimented with the M6 preamp into the power sections of both of the tube amps (and vice versa)- I found the M6 pre into the D-180 preamp to be the best of both worlds personally! A clarity and depth to the tone that wasn't inherent in the 400+ preamp, but still retaining that powerful midrange voicing. I mentioned this experiment in one of the early M6 threads and another TB'er PM'ed me with the info that Mesa was actually toying with this combination (I'm glad to see they followed through). Having the selectable output power will likely give you plenty of control as far as gainy tones are concerned (drop down to 150 watts for the D-180 grind). I much preferred the sound of my 400+ with the amp cranked than I did with just the preamp cranked and my experimentation with the M6 pre into the 400+ power amp was honestly even better for the short time I used it (and certainly easier to dial in for me- and this is coming from someone who holds the 400+ as just about the "holy grail" of bass amps!).

As far as 12 6L6s vs. 6 6550s- I ran my 400+ for years with no problems whatsoever with tubes or heat, and I can't say the same for either of the SVTs I've owned (each for shorter periods of time than the 400+ for that matter, not ragging on the SVTs though as I loved both of them as well). The 400+ was also lighter than either of those amps, even in a rack case! I definitely don't understand their reasoning for it (unless it is simply that they don't care to redesign a power section and have to deal with road-testing a new design), but it doesn't really bother me having been plenty happy with that design in the past.
 
#82
I have to clarify the only part of my disappointment...
I was disappointed they only stopped at 300w. :eyebrow: I wanted and have been waiting for a 400 watter from Mesa!
Verellen, Peavey, Marshall, Laney all came out with them. Why not come out with a big gun too, if you're also filling in a low-wattage void? The Mesa ~300 watt tuber has already been done and thousands upon thousands still exist in circulation.
 
#83
Also- regarding the Walkabout vs. M9 preamps- that shouldn't be an issue with this tube amp, as it has three preamp tubes, one of which I am assuming is a driver tube (the driver being the "magic" behind the Walkabout) vs the M9 which only has the one preamp tube. Also, the Walkabout sounds awesome in as much as it acts similar to a tube amp power section dynamically, which would be inherent in an all-tube amp to begin with (especially paired with the choice of low/high power output).
 
#84
The "old" Basis M2000 has 3 preamp tubes, one is in fact acting as a driver for the power stage. I can't wait to try the new one. I actually have a modified D180 running KT88s in the poweramp, sounds good, breaks up late and has lots of clarity. Maybe hotrodding a new amp is the way to go?
I mean they haven't been released yet, so lets get a list of mods together before we hear it so then we can laugh at ourselves when they're not needed or already included! I for one am going to mod mine to include a quarter inch input! ;p
 
#86
Calaverasgrande said:
sometimes I think the current era of Mesa's bass amps (post bass 400+) are more focused on having a symmetrical panel layout than having features that are actually in demand.
Click to expand...

What features are you talking about specifically? Throughout their solid-state amplifier lines they have offered all manner of features- onboard compressor, footswitchable EQ/Mute, 2 ohm operation, dual EQ'able channels, onboard overdrive, actual useable tube preamp overdrive, multiple bands of semi-parametric EQ, global midrange/character shape, boost channel, amps with different/ very distinct tonal profiles (modern/vintage), etcetera. They have yet to release a Class D uber-tiny amp (and that seems unlikely), but the Walkabout is close enough for me. They have also yet to release a mega-amp that somehow jampacks all those features into one, but that would inevitably be too heavy, large, and altogether unwieldy for most people's interest (the Titan is a good example of a Mesa amp that should have been the end-all for alot of people, but just didn't seem to catch on for the reasons stated among others). The M6/M9 heads seem to have hit on exactly what was in demand for many given how popular they have become (and for many people that never would have even considered a Mesa previously).

Now they are about to release an all tube amp that should potentially be able to hit on both modern and vintage tones with ease (which is not exactly common among tube amps), as well as power tube overdrive at any volume with the power output selection switch. Given that its preamp has three tubes vs. the one in the M6/M9, I think its reasonable to believe that it will be more capable of preamp overdrive than the M series as well, though we won't know that for sure until it is released. What more could you want?
 
#87
I spoke with a rep from Mesa this week and he has personally been using the new Bass amp for the last month on gigs. He said it is very reminiscent of the the SVT but with the familiar Mesa sound and grind. He said it looks amazing, it has most of the front panel of the M9 and a little more and feels Randal has hit it out of the park with the all inclosed metal case design and handles on every angle you can imagine. I was told it weighs 40 lbs. and as far as the watts go, everyone who is crying about more, more, more... He said, "It will rip your head off if you dare to push it", so I would not be to concerned with the number of watts that they are conservatively using for the public... It sounds like they are going for the vintage market on this one.. I also got a very strong sense that Mesa is not at all concerned with trying to appease the Micro Amp section of the market and that they know who their customer is and are building what they feel represents both Mesa and its loyal user... The End!
 
#88
Kinda what you would expect to hear from a sales rep, but I'm sure it will be solid and I'm glad they are doing something all tube again.
 
#89
L.A. BASS said:
I spoke with a rep from Mesa this week and he has personally been using the new Bass amp for the last month on gigs. He said it is very reminiscent of the the SVT but with the familiar Mesa sound and grind. He said it looks amazing, it has most of the front panel of the M9 and a little more and feels Randal has hit it out of the park with the all inclosed metal case design and handles on every angle you can imagine. I was told it weighs 40 lbs. and as far as the watts go, everyone who is crying about more, more, more... He said, "It will rip your head off if you dare to push it", so I would not be to concerned with the number of watts that they are conservatively using for the public... It sounds like they are going for the vintage market on this one.. I also got a very strong sense that Mesa is not at all concerned with trying to appease the Micro Amp section of the market and that they know who their customer is and are building what they feel represents both Mesa and its loyal user... The End!
Click to expand...

That sounds like everything I would want in a tube amp....however, I will believe it when I see it. Mesa has not let down yet.
 
#90
L.A. BASS said:
I spoke with a rep from Mesa this week and he has personally been using the new Bass amp for the last month on gigs. He said it is very reminiscent of the the SVT but with the familiar Mesa sound and grind. He said it looks amazing, it has most of the front panel of the M9 and a little more and feels Randal has hit it out of the park with the all inclosed metal case design and handles on every angle you can imagine. I was told it weighs 40 lbs. and as far as the watts go, everyone who is crying about more, more, more... He said, "It will rip your head off if you dare to push it", so I would not be to concerned with the number of watts that they are conservatively using for the public... It sounds like they are going for the vintage market on this one.. I also got a very strong sense that Mesa is not at all concerned with trying to appease the Micro Amp section of the market and that they know who their customer is and are building what they feel represents both Mesa and its loyal user... The End!
Click to expand...
I'm glad Mesa appears to be quoting RMS watts this time, as opposed to the peak rating used for the 400 and 400+. 300 is plenty for me. Just wish they'd gone to KT88s/6550s so there are 6 tubes instead of 12.

That said, if the tonal description is accurate and the amp has Mesa's usual solid build quality, I'll be very interested.
 
#92
sunbeast said:
What features are you talking about specifically?
Click to expand...

How about a bass amp designed for gain instead of a bass amp that has a one or two knob "gain effect". There are a couple companies that almost do this, but they all fall short.
That is what makes the 400/400+ such a monster. It isnt that it has two EQ's. It is that the graphic is entirely after the whole preamp and just before the power amp. So essentially it is the power amps EQ. This allows you to eq however you need to in order to get sustain or grind etc. Than use the graphic to cut out the mud, or bring up some sizzle.
I actually DONT use it that way, but it is nice to have the capability.
Of the newer MESA bass amps I do not feel that they live up to the Mesa heritage of being super flexible amps with a lot of different tones. Mesa amps (on the guitar side esp) have been known to have kind of learning curve, with a lot of available good tones and glaring pitfalls of bad tone if you dont use them well. The newer bass amps seem to want to take away the possibility of ever sounding bad, but in doing so also take away that flexibility. But darn if the front panels arent pretty as a daisy.

I really wish they would make essentially a recto bass amp. Something that needs no fuzz pedals to get you into grind. But that also uses some kind of internal parallel effects loop to preserve the low end solidity, much the way the B:Assmaster pedal works. Of course with channel switching and some kind of gain compensation so that the clean and grind can be matched.
thats all I ask. Make it so Randall.
 
#93
Calaverasgrande said:
How about a bass amp designed for gain instead of a bass amp that has a one or two knob "gain effect". There are a couple companies that almost do this, but they all fall short.
That is what makes the 400/400+ such a monster. It isnt that it has two EQ's. It is that the graphic is entirely after the whole preamp and just before the power amp. So essentially it is the power amps EQ. This allows you to eq however you need to in order to get sustain or grind etc. Than use the graphic to cut out the mud, or bring up some sizzle.
I actually DONT use it that way, but it is nice to have the capability.
Of the newer MESA bass amps I do not feel that they live up to the Mesa heritage of being super flexible amps with a lot of different tones. Mesa amps (on the guitar side esp) have been known to have kind of learning curve, with a lot of available good tones and glaring pitfalls of bad tone if you dont use them well. The newer bass amps seem to want to take away the possibility of ever sounding bad, but in doing so also take away that flexibility. But darn if the front panels arent pretty as a daisy.

I really wish they would make essentially a recto bass amp. Something that needs no fuzz pedals to get you into grind. But that also uses some kind of internal parallel effects loop to preserve the low end solidity, much the way the B:Assmaster pedal works. Of course with channel switching and some kind of gain compensation so that the clean and grind can be matched.
thats all I ask. Make it so Randall.
Click to expand...
Unless you're happy with grind from the preamp you'll need a choke on your power amp or some kind of magic switcheroo into the d-180 master volume system for your grind channel, or two whole power amp sections. Which would you prefer?
 
#94
Calaverasgrande said:
How about a bass amp designed for gain instead of a bass amp that has a one or two knob "gain effect". There are a couple companies that almost do this, but they all fall short.
That is what makes the 400/400+ such a monster. It isnt that it has two EQ's. It is that the graphic is entirely after the whole preamp and just before the power amp. So essentially it is the power amps EQ. This allows you to eq however you need to in order to get sustain or grind etc. Than use the graphic to cut out the mud, or bring up some sizzle.
I actually DONT use it that way, but it is nice to have the capability.
Of the newer MESA bass amps I do not feel that they live up to the Mesa heritage of being super flexible amps with a lot of different tones. Mesa amps (on the guitar side esp) have been known to have kind of learning curve, with a lot of available good tones and glaring pitfalls of bad tone if you dont use them well. The newer bass amps seem to want to take away the possibility of ever sounding bad, but in doing so also take away that flexibility. But darn if the front panels arent pretty as a daisy.

I really wish they would make essentially a recto bass amp. Something that needs no fuzz pedals to get you into grind. But that also uses some kind of internal parallel effects loop to preserve the low end solidity, much the way the B:Assmaster pedal works. Of course with channel switching and some kind of gain compensation so that the clean and grind can be matched.
thats all I ask. Make it so Randall.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are looking for (and I am also a freak for tweakability), but I wouldn't really call that particular something "in demand" for a large bass-playing market. Even most gain-loving bassists I see these days (which are most of them that I see in Portland) seem to be plenty happy to plug into a cranked SVT, with or without the addition of a boost/overdrive/fuzz pedal- and it is still one hell of a sound! I personally preferred my 400+ to my SVTs for gainy sounds as I was able to get more articulation/clarity to my driven sound than I was ever able to with the SVTs (without external EQ'ing). The reality is though that I have read more complaints here about how difficult or counter-intuitive the 400+ is to dial in than I have heard people who prefer it for its flexibility over an SVT. The Fender-style EQ definitely didn't leave a whole lot of room for tweaking the midrange unless you spent a fair amount of time experimenting with it, where an SVT pretty much predictably gives you what it gives you right out of the box. Most bassists still prefer simple...

Anyway- I am fairly confident that if this new amp is really a tweaked M9 pre into a 400+ power amp that it will be able to get me all that the 400+ could and more (having already played and loved the M6 preamp into the 400+ power amp). Being able to drop the power into a psuedo-D180 will just be icing on the cake!
 
#95
RootNoteRadical said:
The AMPEG V4BH is a 100 watts with 4 6L6 tubes
Click to expand...

No, the reissues were; the originals used 7027A tubes, and IMO sounded different and better.

From the Mesa link:
Choose from: 4 power tubes, producing 120 Tube-Watts (*Sounds like 300!)

These guys have defineately jumped the shark; can they be that out of touch with what players really want?

Other than the WA, M6, and M9; they have nothing available or planned that is any different or better than what is already available in both the new and used bass amp markets.
At this rate all they will have is found memories of better days gone by for bass players.
 
#96
A higher powered Walkabout would make me smile.

A very clean tube amp with 400 watts would make me smile.

I had one 400, and two 400+, and never could get enough clean gain out of those to be happy, despite all kinds of tube jockeying...I realize I'm likely alone with that particular issue.
 
#97
Seriously,...When did all these manufacturers get it into their heads that working musicians have money? $2300 for a brand new amp is Steep. Hopefully the street price is lower than MSRP (I can only assume) but unless these come with free ******* and a drinks cabinet with lifetime refills of Scotch,....I'll be sticking to the used market.
 
#98
Chef said:
A higher powered Walkabout would make me smile.

A very clean tube amp with 400 watts would make me smile.

I had one 400, and two 400+, and never could get enough clean gain out of those to be happy, despite all kinds of tube jockeying...I realize I'm likely alone with that particular issue.
Click to expand...

There are a few of us that want clean and warm and tubey.
Never bought the 400+ as the SVT (when set clean) was better for me. From what Tom has said and what Mesa does, it seems very unlikely that a high powered WA will ever see the light of day.
Perhaps they can't make it work; that would at least be a good explanation.

Also agreed that even a 300 watt tube bass amp would have to be light and sound like God at over $2K, considering the SVT choices both new and used.

Kinda want to seem them dump tons of R&D money, corporate energy, and manufacturing dollars to build and market something that is not wanted or needed by players.

If I'm right, then egomania would be the only explanation.
 
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