• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

New mesa subway amps and cabs!

And the folks, including some that play with me had the D800 then the + came out in no time and that was devalued, now the WD800 and the + is devalued. Not to be snarky but, short sighted engineering, brilliant marketing strategy, or greed driven? I am sorry but I just don't get it. The D800 was and is great but the addition of the high pass filter (which should be on every amp on the market imho and use to be on many; ie 80Hz switch on my GK800RB that's 20+ years old) was added to the + then the WD800 with a tube in it's pre and a designated 2 ohm switch and parametric. That said, I have always loved Mesa eq and general build quality of their amps but the sequential release of products in such a short time frame with minor additional features does not make me applaud.
I can confirm that the WD concept started years ago and I recall many discussions on TB and via PM with agedhorse about how to tackle the design challenge associated with satisfying all the pleas and requests for a higher powered WA. Unfortunately it simply took some time to fully appreciate the unique system dynamics/interactions responsible for the WA tone at a level that even brainstorming on how to reasonably scale it up could begin. And most will recall that nothing else with more power in the M-Pulse line sounded like a more powerful WA - which one would have logically expected. If it was an easy nut to crack, Mesa had lots of monetary incentive to do it a long, long time ago.

Mesa wanted to give us what we all asked for, but the path to doing that was anything but clear - in fact it was considered by most to somewhere between impossible and impracticable. After a lot thinking and experimenting, agedhorse finally formulated a design approach that brought some new puzzle pieces into the equation to replace pieces that would not scale up. Unfortunately they were not exactly a one for one replacement because it was an un-scalable interaction that was producing the unique WA tone. Wanting to stay totally analog and not use digital modelling or emulation (which IME would have fallen short of customer expectations) simply required time. As I said, most assumed the problem was not solvable and the WA results could not be replicated at higher power.

Since invention and innovation are rarely instantaneous, and even miracles often take time, it just took a while. Many of us were in conversations with agedhorse along the way, and I was one of those folks. He would have loved to be the hero who delivered this the moment it was asked for. And I suspect he would have rather not read all my wild suggestions and comments along the way.

The new architecture here IMO is more of WA+/second generation WA design than it is simply a Subway with different controls and a tube pre-amp. While agedhorse may have told the story differently (and usually hits the facts more accurately than me), I wanted to provide my perspective as someone who was an occasional participant along the entire process.

As someone who trusts Mesa's ethics and an engineer myself, I'm pretty comfortable that if Mesa could have produced this even one day earlier, they would have. They have had folks clamoring for it for many years easily bordering on a decade. Just look at the response here! Who in business would have kept this hidden in the backroom with demand like this knocking on the front door? Good engineering takes time, especially when the problem is considered unsolvable. IMO the real question in my mind should be how was this even possible, not whether the timing is suspect.

A final thought from someone who has played the prototype head along side my WA and my SW. This head didn't make my D-800 obsolete (or shorten my 5 year transferable warranty if I want to sell it) and neither did the 800+. The WD-800 does eclipse my old WA, but that was what we had all been screaming we wanted for 10 years or more. I like my D-800 as much as the day I bought it. As people played that head and expressed interest in new features and capabilities, Mesa responded to that demand with a D-800+. We can either accuse them of listening too closely to customer demand and responding too rapidly, or of having ulterior motives,...I think the answer to this one is obvious!

Very respectfully,
-Al
 
Last edited:
What else was announced?!?!?
On the website there are new SW cabs that cover all the discontinued PH cabs and a new Subway+ DI-Preamp that incorporates the D-800+ feature set. I think that covers us bass folks.

Edit: Part of my post went missing, so I repaired it
 
Last edited:
image.jpg
The Mesa gear I see listed still sells close to original price.. there’s always that hit you take when buying new gear.

My take on what happened here with these MESA amps is it’s just world class R&D. More companies should take notes.

And this might sound silly but .. Walkabout Head is my main head for a long time. I actually traded a D800 for a Walkabout.
I’ve had many chats with agedhorse here on TB both public and private.. After all these chats I feel like this head was custom made for me.
I bet many feel the same.
When the Subway 800 came out everyone was excited and a lot were making the comment that they should make a Walkabout with 800 watts, the WA tone is just so special like that,a lot of players wanted a more powerful WA, I’m happy with my little WA and kinda regret selling the cab it came with but it’s been my main amp for a couple years now with the Subway Cabs. This just arrived today it’s a D800+ I’m sure I’m gonna love it too but I’m all confused now about the WD800, I jumped on this because PayPal offered me 24 payments plan which they don’t offer very much..to open or not open??? The WD800 is only 100.00 more..lol why do we get so obsessed over gear it’s craazy!!
 
As someone who owns a lot of amps and cabs I can assure you that the 800+ (or my 800) didn't just become obsolete! We bought them because we liked the features and the way they sounded. If your WA has been serving you well with two cabs running at a combined 4 Ohm load you now have the best of both worlds. I know a 4 Ohm Berg CN212 gave my WA's a whole new lease on life.

The WD-800 is the best, higher-powered WA solution (or as close as we come in my lifetime) Mesa could produce. It hits the mark for me, but in no way makes me feel bad about my D-800 (and I don't even have the plus). The WD-800 is a great head IMO, but it's a different head, not a better one than the D-800 or D-800+. It's all about having options and choices in the Mesa bass line-up to find a sound that's best for your needs, or not.
 
Last edited:
Nice! I love the WA. I also own and dig the D800. I will own the WD as well and I am thankful the master volume doesn't control the DI level. As a FOH guy, did that design feature on the WA concern you at all Andy?

Absolutely!

I disagree with the analogy of a new phone although that was probably part of what sparked this response:) My last I phone suddenly became a dinosaur. It was more the short time line between model changes that had me thinking. Again, as I stated they make a solid amp that I like very much. Yes, R&D takes time but forethought does not.

Some of the phone changes are necessary for technology reasons, evolving to comply with new regulations, newly available RF bandwidth, new data and voice protocols, etc. none of these are reasons for new amp models, they were to address the desires and needs of different players.

Oh man, that 212 definitely ticks all the boxes for me! I have no doubt that it would outperform my 4 ohm powerhouse 210 and the portability and weight definitely are a plus!

By quite a wide margin too.

If Andy (agedhorse) is behind this, you know it will be bullet proof. I like the looks of the "damping" feature.

Thanks Roger!

Any plans for making an 8 ohm version of the Vertical 2-12"? I would prefer running a pair of them.

No, all of our new amps fully support 2 ohm operation.

Agedhorse - what are the specs for the fixed HPF on the D-800? I've had mine for a couple of years now and am happy, but was thinking of going the the + for the variable HPF.

I think it's right around 30Hz

I power my pair of 8 ohm PH212 cabinets with a Crest CA9. I was hoping to run 2 more 8 ohm 212" cabinets. I also see the Subway 4-10" is also 4 ohms only. Bummer. I'm going to have to find another pair of PH212's on the used market.
Dual mono, your amp supports 2 ohm loads on each channel. Put the Powerhouse on one channel and the Subway on the other channel, balance the levels with the amp's sensitivity controls and you are good to go.
 
I can confirm that the WD concept started years ago and I recall many discussions on TB and via PM with agedhorse about how to tackle the design challenge associated with satisfying all the pleas and requests for a higher powered WA. Unfortunately it simply took some time to fully appreciate the unique system dynamics/interactions responsible for the WA tone at a level that even brainstorming on how to reasonably scale it up could begin. And most will recall that nothing else with more power in the M-Pulse line sounded like a more powerful WA - which one would have logically expected. If it was an easy nut to crack, Mesa had lots of monetary incentive to do it a long, long time ago.

Mesa wanted to give us what we all asked for, but the path to doing that was anything but clear - in fact it was considered by most to somewhere between impossible and impracticable. After a lot thinking and experimenting, agedhorse finally formulated a design approach that brought some new puzzle pieces into the equation to replace pieces that would not scale up. Unfortunately they were not exactly a one for one replacement because it was an un-scalable interaction that was producing the unique WA tone. Wanting to stay totally analog and not use digital modelling or emulation (which IME would have fallen short of customer expectations) simply required time. As I said, most assumed the problem was not solvable and the WA results could not be replicated at higher power.

Since invention and innovation are rarely instantaneous, and even miracles often take time, it just took a while. Many of us were in conversations with agedhorse along the way, and I was one of those folks. He would have loved to be the hero who delivered this the moment it was asked for. And I suspect he would have rather not read all my wild suggestions and comments along the way.

The new architecture here IMO is more of WA+/second generation WA design than it is simply a Subway with different controls and a tube pre-amp. While agedhorse may have told the story differently (and usually hits the facts more accurately than me), I wanted to provide my perspective as someone who was an occasional participant along the entire process.

As someone who trusts Mesa's ethics and an engineer myself, I'm pretty comfortable that if Mesa could have produced this even one day earlier, they would have. They have had folks clamoring for it for many years easily bordering on a decade. Just look at the response here! Who in business would have kept this hidden in the backroom with demand like this knocking on the front door? Good engineering takes time, especially when the problem is considered unsolvable. IMO the real question in my mind should be how was this even possible, not whether the timing is suspect.

A final thought from someone who has played the prototype head along side my WA and my SW. This head didn't make my D-800 obsolete (or shorten my 5 year transferable warranty if I want to sell it) and neither did the 800+. The WD-800 does eclipse my old WA, but that was what we had all been screaming we wanted for 10 years or more. I like my D-800 as much as the day I bought it. As people played that head and expressed interest in new features and capabilities, Mesa responded to that demand with a D-800+. We can either accuse them of listening too closely to customer demand and responding too rapidly, or of having ulterior motives,...I think the answer to this one is obvious!

Very respectfully,
-Al
Excellent explanation Al. Thank you!

David
 
not the 4x12,6x10, & 8x10 though
You are 100% correct - I was thinking of it from different perspective though.

I answered in the mind set of lighter weight, easy to transport gear where I typically build those set-ups in a modular way with heads that support stable 2 Ohm operation. I should have been more clear, and will agree that many folks find handling just a single larger cab much easier and more convenient than using multiple cabs to build a similar configuration.

I actually like my PH212 cabs as a modular 412 even though they are not particularly small or light. When I need a 412 it's more convenient for me (with my vehicles) to take the two cabs. It also allows me to use my PH410 and one PH212 in combination which is a surprisingly nice combination that even the mixed cab police seem happy to give me a pass on.
 
Last edited:
View attachment 3230769
When the Subway 800 came out everyone was excited and a lot were making the comment that they should make a Walkabout with 800 watts, the WA tone is just so special like that,a lot of players wanted a more powerful WA, I’m happy with my little WA and kinda regret selling the cab it came with but it’s been my main amp for a couple years now with the Subway Cabs. This just arrived today it’s a D800+ I’m sure I’m gonna love it too but I’m all confused now about the WD800, I jumped on this because PayPal offered me 24 payments plan which they don’t offer very much..to open or not open??? The WD800 is only 100.00 more..lol why do we get so obsessed over gear it’s craazy!!
I couldn't resist!!!!20181129_143728.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: BOOG and Al Kraft
without seeking trade secrets or IP, is the Class D power amp on the WD-800 the same as the one found in the D800/D800+ ?
Even if they are the same, I'm certain there are differences in the interface/design of the preamps and the power amp.
mostly just curiosity

From Mesa website.
This Head combines the warm, soulful sounding magic of the WalkAbout tube preamp section with the musical Class D Output Power used in our Subway Line (D-800™ and D-800+™), to create the ultimate lightweight hybrid.
 

Latest posts