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New mesa subway amps and cabs!

You are 100% correct - I was thinking of it from different perspective though.

I answered in the mind set of lighter weight, easy to transport gear where I typically build those set-ups in a modular way with heads that support stable 2 Ohm operation. I should have been more clear, and will agree that many folks find handling just a single larger cab much easier and more convenient than using multiple cabs to build a similar configuration.

I actually like my PH212 cabs as a modular 412 even though they are particularly not small or light. When I need a 412 it's more convenient for me (with my vehicles) to take the two cabs. It also allows me to use my PH410 and one PH212 in combination which is a surprisingly nice combination that even the mixed cab police seem happy to give me a pass on.

I was on the fence for a while on whether to get 2 PH 2x12's, and always wondered if it would sound/feel different than a single PH 4x12. I went with the 4x12 mostly because of the tilt back and roll, while the "fulcrum" on that cab lines up with the height of my tailgate.... so its easier to get it in and out solo (need to still use proper ergonomics though!). The PH 1000 was shorter and a pain in the @$$, and simply did not compare in sound to my 4x12.
 
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I was on the fence for a while on whether to get 2 PH 2x12's, and always wondered if it would sound/feel different than a single PH 4x12. I went with the 4x12 mostly because of the tilt back and roll, while the "fulcrum" on that cab lines up with the height of my tailgate.... so its easier to get it in and out solo (need to still use proper ergonomics though!). The PH 1000 was shorter and a pain in the @$$, and simply did not compare in sound to my 4x12.
No question that if you have the right vehicle, a 412 can actually be easier to handle as you said, plus there's just a cool factor of rolling in 412 cab that you can't put a price on! I suspect other than having an additional HF element (which you could turn down) the actual performance sound/tone-wise would be pretty much the same.

I never found the 1000 to be a appealing either and suspect it's because I was never a 410/115 combination cab set-up fan. IMO the PH212's/412's were the sweetest sounding PH cabs. I also like the 410 for it's powerful bass, but those multiple 12" loaded PH cabs had a rich Steinway grand kind of tone to the notes to my ear - very full and round, and very musical!
 
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without seeking trade secrets or IP, is the Class D power amp on the WD-800 the same as the one found in the D800/D800+ ?
Even if they are the same, I'm certain there are differences in the interface/design of the preamps and the power amp.
mostly just curiosity

Yes, same module with the same reliability

The Wd-800 project took about 3 years of intermittent work.
 
I can confirm that the WD concept started years ago and I recall many discussions on TB and via PM with agedhorse about how to tackle the design challenge associated with satisfying all the pleas and requests for a higher powered WA. Unfortunately it simply took some time to fully appreciate the unique system dynamics/interactions responsible for the WA tone at a level that even brainstorming on how to reasonably scale it up could begin. And most will recall that nothing else with more power in the M-Pulse line sounded like a more powerful WA - which one would have logically expected. If it was an easy nut to crack, Mesa had lots of monetary incentive to do it a long, long time ago.

Mesa wanted to give us what we all asked for, but the path to doing that was anything but clear - in fact it was considered by most to somewhere between impossible and impracticable. After a lot thinking and experimenting, agedhorse finally formulated a design approach that brought some new puzzle pieces into the equation to replace pieces that would not scale up. Unfortunately they were not exactly a one for one replacement because it was an un-scalable interaction that was producing the unique WA tone. Wanting to stay totally analog and not use digital modelling or emulation (which IME would have fallen short of customer expectations) simply required time. As I said, most assumed the problem was not solvable and the WA results could not be replicated at higher power.

Since invention and innovation are rarely instantaneous, and even miracles often take time, it just took a while. Many of us were in conversations with agedhorse along the way, and I was one of those folks. He would have loved to be the hero who delivered this the moment it was asked for. And I suspect he would have rather not read all my wild suggestions and comments along the way.

The new architecture here IMO is more of WA+/second generation WA design than it is simply a Subway with different controls and a tube pre-amp. While agedhorse may have told the story differently (and usually hits the facts more accurately than me), I wanted to provide my perspective as someone who was an occasional participant along the entire process.

As someone who trusts Mesa's ethics and an engineer myself, I'm pretty comfortable that if Mesa could have produced this even one day earlier, they would have. They have had folks clamoring for it for many years easily bordering on a decade. Just look at the response here! Who in business would have kept this hidden in the backroom with demand like this knocking on the front door? Good engineering takes time, especially when the problem is considered unsolvable. IMO the real question in my mind should be how was this even possible, not whether the timing is suspect.

A final thought from someone who has played the prototype head along side my WA and my SW. This head didn't make my D-800 obsolete (or shorten my 5 year transferable warranty if I want to sell it) and neither did the 800+. The WD-800 does eclipse my old WA, but that was what we had all been screaming we wanted for 10 years or more. I like my D-800 as much as the day I bought it. As people played that head and expressed interest in new features and capabilities, Mesa responded to that demand with a D-800+. We can either accuse them of listening too closely to customer demand and responding too rapidly, or of having ulterior motives,...I think the answer to this one is obvious!

Very respectfully,
-Al
Agedhorse is a freaking genius, his knowledge is more valuable than we know, everything Mesa puts out is in a class all its own, only complaint i i have is playing so many years with other brands although they were good but not as good as the later, I have 3 Mesa heads now a WA, Mpulse 600 and now the 800+ I'm having a hard time deciding which one i like best..they are all so different but in a good way!!
 
No question that if you have the right vehicle, a 412 can actually be easier to handle as you said, plus there's just a cool factor of rolling in 412 cab that you can't put a price on! I suspect other than having an additional HF element (which you could turn down) the actual performance sound/tone-wise would be pretty much the same.

I never found the 1000 to be a appealing either and suspect it's because I was never a 410/115 combination cab set-up fan. IMO the PH212's/412's were the sweetest sounding PH cabs. I also like the 410 for it's powerful bass, but those multiple 12" loaded PH cabs had a rich Steinway grand kind of tone to the notes to my ear - very full and round, and very musical!

I thought I was getting the best of both worlds when I used an SWR Triad, and as much as I wanted to love it, it really was a failure to my ears. I thought the PH 1000 would be a higher rated remedy for that, I liked it (sort of), but it was a louder and bigger failure. Now the 12's cover both those worlds perfectly to my ears! I only wonder, with the success of the SW amp line and I'm sure, eventually a larger successful WD version, that there could be a lower powered combo line of the three amps? Or is there even a market for those anymore, considering that the SW cabs are lighter and the volume increases linearly?
 
I think this is going to be my next amp, it has everything I need and the flexibility for later. The walkabout tone is one I loved for a long time, didn't dig the 800 as much as other amps, but this might bring me into the fold big time. I have a 2x12 that needs a new friend
 
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The voicing is inherent to the basic architecture of the Walkabout and the new WD-800. This serves a similar purpose as the voicing control on the D-800.

The WD-800 is much more similar to the Walkabout than the Carbine.

A very accurate characterization to my ear. I own the D-800, two WA's, and all three Carbines and when I had the opportunity to play the WD-800 prototype was able to do direct comparisons on different cabs. The WD-800 and Carbine feel about as closely related as the original WA and a Carbine do. The D-800 has some obvious Carbine DNA in it to my ear, but has a more refined/sophisticated tone especially on the top end.

While the WD-800 doesn't include a voicing control I found that the semi-parametric EQ and other EQ controls, along with the variable HPF and variable damping let me "voice the head" (working around the inherent and deliberate WA kind of starting point) in more ways than my D-800 voicing control can. Of course that D-800 voicing control is a sweet one knob tool, but the extra versatility of the WD-800 control set didn't have me wishing for a voicing control.

Many WA users will appreciate that we no longer have to to dedicate the first semi-parametric filter to compensating for the low end bloom that easily got out of control leaving us only two semi-parametric controls for real tone shaping duty. This new head doesn't get out of control/become unfocused down low and it has a variable HPF. That means all three semi-parametric EQ controls are available for tone shaping. You also have the damping control. This is definitely a player's head when it comes to being able to sculpt your own sound.
 
I thought I was getting the best of both worlds when I used an SWR Triad, and as much as I wanted to love it, it really was a failure to my ears. I thought the PH 1000 would be a higher rated remedy for that, I liked it (sort of), but it was a louder and bigger failure. Now the 12's cover both those worlds perfectly to my ears! I only wonder, with the success of the SW amp line and I'm sure, eventually a larger successful WD version, that there could be a lower powered combo line of the three amps? Or is there even a market for those anymore, considering that the SW cabs are lighter and the volume increases linearly?
IMHO ... The Triad was one of the worst cabinets I have ever used. I just couldn’t get a good sound from it.
 
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I've owned a 2x10 subway cab for 2 years,seems quite rugged!

My experience with poplar is it is considered a soft wood. I dunno, maybe Italian Polpar is a harder species. But if it is soft wood, thinking about how much abuse a bass cab goes through, through the bumps, bruises, not to mention concussive vibrations, leads me to believe it’s not going to be as durable over the long haul as void free plywood.

I don’t claim to an engineer, and I’m not trying to discourage anybody from buying or enjoying these cabs. That said, it is a point to consider, especially if you are gigging a lot, what is underneath the tolex is important.
 
My experience with poplar is it is considered a soft wood. I dunno, maybe Italian Polpar is a harder species. But if it is soft wood, thinking about how much abuse a bass cab goes through, through the bumps, bruises, not to mention concussive vibrations, leads me to believe it’s not going to be as durable over the long haul as void free plywood.

I don’t claim to an engineer, and I’m not trying to discourage anybody from buying or enjoying these cabs. That said, it is a point to consider, especially if you are gigging a lot, what is underneath the tolex is important.

Italian popular is fairly hard and it is void free.
 
Man that WD-800 really makes me wish the rest of my band would get off their butts and we could get back to gigging 10-12 times a year. I want one bad but just can't justify it right now. I don't even use my D800 much anymore as I use a small combo amp at our practice space whenever we do practice. But if we get back on it, rest assured if we get back in the swing of things I shall have one :)
 
My experience with poplar is it is considered a soft wood. I dunno, maybe Italian Polpar is a harder species. But if it is soft wood, thinking about how much abuse a bass cab goes through, through the bumps, bruises, not to mention concussive vibrations, leads me to believe it’s not going to be as durable over the long haul as void free plywood.

I don’t claim to an engineer, and I’m not trying to discourage anybody from buying or enjoying these cabs. That said, it is a point to consider, especially if you are gigging a lot, what is underneath the tolex is important.

You've obviously never seen a Subway cab in person. It's quite shocking how solid they are. Plus keep in mind, Mesa has built an amp or two over the years. They know what they're doing.
 

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