New mesa subway amps and cabs!

[ezstep]

I bought a Subway 15 back in the early summer, then bought a second one and the D800+ head. Killer rig. Absolute killer. But I play in two separate groups - one works 3-4 times a month and I take the big rig. The second plays churches, outdoor festivals, etc., so I don't need all that power.

I read all the mega-thread posts, especially about the new 2x12. I had owned a great SWR 2x12 back around 98 and used it for over a decade. I sold it not too long ago, but I have missed that sound.

I picked up the Subway 2x12 this week and will use it with the smaller band. A single 2x12 sounds HUGE. In my opinion (and nothing scientific about my opinion) it sounds larger than a single 1x15. The lows are tight and focused and the lower and upper mids and highs are all there. No "scoop" (for lack of a better word). I have always felt that the 15's have a slight, natural "scoop" in the high mid region, but the 2x12 doesn't seem to have that. Again, in my opinion, 2x12's are more straight forward across the spectrum of frequency. I know it sounds stupid, but the 2x12 sounds better than a single 15, and in fact sounds very close to two 15's, but I am sure will not carry the volume of two 15's. Again, the two 15's are the best rig I have ever owned in my rather long life. I am very satisfied with the 2x12.

I am a happy camper.

 

[Al Kraft]

The lows are tight and focused and the lower and upper mids and highs are all there. No "scoop" (for lack of a better word). I have always felt that the 15's have a slight, natural "scoop" in the high mid region, but the 2x12 doesn't seem to have that. Again, in my opinion, 2x12's are more straight forward across the spectrum of frequency. I know it sounds stupid, but the 2x12 sounds better than a single 15, and in fact sounds very close to two 15's, but I am sure will not carry the volume of two 15's.

I wonder if what you're detecting/hearing here is the reason so many of us found the 112/115 cab combination to be such a complementary match-up and so well balanced. I could imagine a 212 being quite excellent while just a bit less present/forceful in the deepest lows. I'd bet overall perceived volume might be close though with so much focus in the 212 cab coming through from low to upper mids - the frequency range we often associate with loudness and projection.

 

[ezstep]

Good point. I used two Bergie 12's for quite a while, but only with p.a. support. I am familiar with how two 12's should sound, and I was certainly not disappointed with the Subway. It's gonna be great. I don't expect it to have the same overall volume as two 15's, but it handles everything I have thrown at it quite well.

I guess now I have TWO 115/112 combos I just cannot split 'em up. lol

 

[Emanuel]

I used the 112/115 cab combination the other night with my D800 and it sounded phenomenal. It was a jam band with some really great players so lots of musicians show up and I got so many questions and compliments regarding my tone. I had been pining for my old Carbine tone but that night I spent a little extra time tweaking the knobs, nothing major just small adjustments but I was really pleased with the results. Muscular tone with a sense of immediacy and lots of tight low end. Man that was fun!

 

[shadven]

Yes it is!

I just picked up the 2x15 cab too. I am really impressed! It sounds great with a variety of bass heads. I need a cab that I can feel on stage, and the 2x15 fits the bill. And it is pretty light. It has wheels and comes with a cover.

 

[Al Kraft]

I had been pining for my old Carbine tone but that night I spent a little extra time tweaking the knobs, nothing major just small adjustments but I was really pleased with the results. Muscular tone with a sense of immediacy and lots of tight low end.

I find the same thing in terms of the similarity to the Carbine's best traits with my 112/115 and D-800 rig. What I really like is that I get the Carbine articulation and crispness without that sharp/biting top end the Carbine has. It's like the rig is a little more polite, but just as capable.

 

[npbassman]

I had a great gig with my WD-800 last night. Signal chain was my Ken Smith White Tiger 5>WD-800>Berg CN212 with no PA support. I asked my BL how I sounded out in front and he said "great tone but it's kinda muddy". I dial the HPF to about 11 o' clock "how about now?". BL - "that's it! damn that rig sounds good!"

The Smith sounded amazing through this rig.

 

[agedhorse]

I had a great gig with my WD-800 last night. Signal chain was my Ken Smith White Tiger 5>WD-800>Berg CN212 with no PA support. I asked my BL how I sounded out in front and he said "great tone but it's kinda muddy". I dial the HPF to about 11 o' clock "how about now?". BL - "that's it! damn that rig sounds good!"

The Smith sounded amazing through this rig.

For all the folks that swear they need DC to light frequency response and high pass filters are evil, your experience is EXACTLY why high pass filters are useful and serve to improve clarity by reducing subsonic non-musically related noise plus low frequency information that gets in the way of a useful bass tone in the context of a mix.

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

Has anyone played a WD800 over a 2x15 Diesel?

 

[dbase]

Just got a MESA WD800. I heard it can be rack mounted but it has no ears. SKB doesn't have a case for it.

 

[BasturdBlaster]

WD800 does have rack ears available separately.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Just got a MESA WD800. I heard it can be rack mounted but it has no ears. SKB doesn't have a case for it.

Ears can be ordered from Mesa.
I have mine in a 4 space SKB roto (newer style) tuner and wireless.

 

[Andy Walhor]

Just got a MESA WD800. I heard it can be rack mounted but it has no ears. SKB doesn't have a case for it.

Rackmount Kit - Subway WD-800

 

[rictrose]

Could anyone comment on the transient response of this amp? Is it very quick? Does it respond to dynamics well? Ive read that this is what the DAMPING control effects, but I've also read that this effect is subtle. Can anyone explain the passive mid control? with PARA EQ dialled in, is passive mid a control over the entire PARA EQ level? Does this amp have the same ICE power module as the Berg Forte amp? A general question about class D amps, but does the preamp effect how much headroom an amp has? Or it is just the power amp? So many Class D amps use the same ICE power module which is why I'm asking. How much CLEAN headroom does this amp have? Thanks in advance for any responses!

 

[Al Kraft]

Could anyone comment on the transient response of this amp? Is it very quick? Does it respond to dynamics well? Ive read that this is what the DAMPING control effects, but I've also read that this effect is subtle. Can anyone explain the passive mid control? with PARA EQ dialled in, is passive mid a control over the entire PARA EQ level? Does this amp have the same ICE power module as the Berg Forte amp? A general question about class D amps, but does the preamp effect how much headroom an amp has? Or it is just the power amp? So many Class D amps use the same ICE power module which is why I'm asking. How much CLEAN headroom does this amp have? Thanks in advance for any responses!

I would say only agedhorse is qualified to answer all your questions. What I can tell you is that the WD does have a tight quick feel to it with the damping setting on high - a touch of Carbine inspiration is evident to me. As you move to progressively lower damping settings (med and then low) you get a little looser feel with slightly less distinct edges on your notes - think WA and tube amp. The change is most noticeable to me in the lower notes on the bass and varies greatly from cab to cab. It also seems to me as if lower impedance (running at 2 or 4 Ohms vs 8), and higher power settings tend to bring out the differences a bit more.

The passive mid is a bit of a misnomer in my mind, but probably accurate when talking about the EQ filter itself which is passive. However, the tricky part is that the passive mid circuit includes some make-up gain that actually gives you more of a hybrid overall filter circuit. The EQ filter behavior mirrors a passive mid control, but the make-up gain allows you to get some amount of boost and attenuation over the filter's effective range.

I am not sure what frequencies the mid affects or to what degree, but given the range of the frequencies you can touch with the semi-parametric mid controls I can't even begin to imagine there is a 100% overlap at every possible setting. Clearly there will be frequencies where they could easily overlap, but I suspect the passive mid may have a broader more subtle effect. Usually semi-parametric controls are designed with a slightly narrower Q (albeit still musically seamless) for more tactical tone shaping to attenuate specific problem areas or where you want to accentuate something.

As for the ICE power module, using the same module doesn't mean you get the identical result. The module is a single component in system design - it's admittedly a bad analogy, but it's a little like assuming strings that sound good on one bass will make every other bass you put them on sound the same way. One of the unique things the WD has going for it is that the designer (agedhorse) has a lot of experience working with the power module designers and in using those components in many different bass and pro-sound applications over the years.

The amp was designed to offer plenty of clean headroom in the pre and power amp sections. The power amp circuit provides some tube emulation in its circuit design so it overdrives musically. As with any system you have the ability through the input you feed it and the controls to take it wherever you want. IME it's an honest 800 Watt head (at 2 or 4 Ohms) and produces an output that doesn't sound weak/thin or like it's struggling to keep up without distorting. You can push the pre or power amps to the point where you will get some break-up if you want that and the head is designed to do that musically. For a specific type of distortion, overdrive, crunch, dirt whatever, the head plays well with effects.

As for specific technical details in each of these areas I'm out of my depth, but as a user of the WD and someone involved during its development, hopefully you'll find my answers at least accurate.

 

[agedhorse]

The manual is downloadable at the website. I suggest reading through it as many of the questions have been discussed in some detail in the manual.

 

[rictrose]

I would say only agedhorse is qualified to answer all your questions. What I can tell you is that the WD does have a tight quick feel to it with the damping setting on high - a touch of Carbine inspiration is evident to me. As you move to progressively lower damping settings (med and then low) you get a little looser feel with slightly less distinct edges on your notes - think WA and tube amp. The change is most noticeable to me in the lower notes on the bass and varies greatly from cab to cab. It also seems to me as if lower impedance (running at 2 or 4 Ohms vs 8), and higher power settings tend to bring out the differences a bit more.

The passive mid is a bit of a misnomer in my mind, but probably accurate when talking about the EQ filter itself which is passive. However, the tricky part is that the passive mid circuit includes some make-up gain that actually gives you more of a hybrid overall filter circuit. The EQ filter behavior mirrors a passive mid control, but the make-up gain allows you to get some amount of boost and attenuation over the filter's effective range.

I am not sure what frequencies the mid affects or to what degree, but given the range of the frequencies you can touch with the semi-parametric mid controls I can't even begin to imagine there is a 100% overlap at every possible setting. Clearly there will be frequencies where they could easily overlap, but I suspect the passive mid may have a broader more subtle effect. Usually semi-parametric controls are designed with a slightly narrower Q (albeit still musically seamless) for more tactical tone shaping to attenuate specific problem areas or where you want to accentuate something.

As for the ICE power module, using the same module doesn't mean you get the identical result. The module is a single component in system design - it's admittedly a bad analogy, but it's a little like assuming strings that sound good on one bass will make every other bass you put them on sound the same way. One of the unique things the WD has going for it is that the designer (agedhorse) has a lot of experience working with the power module designers and in using those components in many different bass and pro-sound applications over the years.

The amp was designed to offer plenty of clean headroom in the pre and power amp sections. The power amp circuit provides some tube emulation in its circuit design so it overdrives musically. As with any system you have the ability through the input you feed it and the controls to take it wherever you want. IME it's an honest 800 Watt head (at 2 or 4 Ohms) and produces an output that doesn't sound weak/thin or like it's struggling to keep up without distorting. You can push the pre or power amps to the point where you will get some break-up if you want that and the head is designed to do that musically. For a specific type of distortion, overdrive, crunch, dirt whatever, the head plays well with effects.

As for specific technical details in each of these areas I'm out of my depth, but as a user of the WD and someone involved during its development, hopefully you'll find my answers at least accurate.

Thanks very much for your descriptive response Al!

 

[rictrose]

The manual is downloadable at the website. I suggest reading through it as many of the questions have been discussed in some detail in the manual.

Cheers! I’ve read the manual and you are right. I’m patiently waiting for an amp to be available to demo where I live in Australia.

 

[pfschim]

I've recently had my WD800 roaring thru a Berg "CN312" rig (CN212+CN112). Pre around 12-1:00 with the OD light just coming on a bit on the E and A strings .. Master at 1:00, but not hitting the Power Amp Limiting circuit. Huge, warm and clear punch all night long with such a great tone that my long time guitar player gave a huge thumbs up mid gig (he rarely comments on the bass tone but loves the sound of the WD).

I will echo what Al said above about the Para EQ, Mid control and Damping. I don't hear the Damping Control impact very much at lower volumes, but I feel like its more apparent at higher volume, and having used it with ported cabs (Berg CN's) and sealed cabs (Berg NV610), I feel like I get more of a distinguishable impact at higher volumes thru the sealed cab.

The WD is a great amp, hard to make it sound bad, although I was able to with a failing mini-toggle switch in my Fender Roscoe Beck IV (which has an unusually complex wiring scheme - particularly for a passive bass). I was freaking out until I realized it was the bass and not the amp.

 

[Element Zero]

... hard to make it sound bad...

Hold my beer...