New mesa subway amps and cabs!

[_Some Dude]

I wish the Parametric EQ had a more defined guide (at least in the owners manual) of its Frequency points. I found my self busting out a calculator using division to calculate halfway/quarter points between the listed frequencies trying to find out where certain frequencies were when i was in the early stages of mixing the amp. I tune by ear but a guide to were the general points are in between would have been MUCH more user friendly. I understand the amp face needs to look clean, but a Page in the Manual with the mapped out Frequencies points would have been nice.

I’d love it if they drew some pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Haroldo]

Assuming the span of the parametric knobs goes from 30 -> 330 degrees (0 degrees straight down) and the frequency response is linear, here are some graphs. Note the substantial overlap between the three knobs.

 

[agedhorse]

The curve is pretty close to a straight line between the two end point frequencies, rotation is about 300 degrees.

 

[Coughdrops]

Is there anyone here with experience with the V4b and the WD800 that can guide me?

So to follow up a little, I made a racket this morning for a bit comparing the WD to the V4B. I still think the WD gets much closer to the feel of the V4B than the D800 did. With both amp eqs "nooned" the WD is a little brighter so I had to knock back the the treble and high mids a little to approximate the same eq. They still aren't exactly the same as the V4B just has that signature ampeg sound. But I think most importantly the feel of the WD does a much better job getting the feel of a full tube amp. There is that certain 3D thing about tube heads that I'm not sure will ever be fully captured in micro heads but it's better than its ever been. The beauty of the WD is the versatility in control over nearly every parameter. The EQ can get darn close to the V4 and the damping feature, particularly at higher volumes, really helps in the feel department.

Now, I tried to push volume a bit but it still wasn't a full on gig/show comparison so some of those nuances might be more noticeable at higher volumes.

If I had one knock on the WD, and it's purely personal preference, is I wish it wasn't quite so bright in its neutral position. But it wasn't intended to be that way and knobs move for a reason. I will agree with a previous comment that the WD has a woody character to it which I always thought was the case with the original Walkabout. The Ampeg has more of its signature grunt.

I think you'd enjoy using the WD in place of the V4 and certainly more than the D800, given your stated preference. YMMV of course and if you can audition one, that's always the best way to go. It's not a high powered V4B but I've been gigging the WD for nearly two months or whenever it came out and just really like it. It gets plenty close enough to make me happy. And I really think you can't beat the feature set for a gigging musician.

 

[grimmchaos]

So to follow up a little, I made a racket this morning for a bit comparing the WD to the V4B. I still think the WD gets much closer to the feel of the V4B than the D800 did. With both amp eqs "nooned" the WD is a little brighter so I had to knock back the the treble and high mids a little to approximate the same eq. They still aren't exactly the same as the V4B just has that signature ampeg sound. But I think most importantly the feel of the WD does a much better job getting the feel of a full tube amp. There is that certain 3D thing about tube heads that I'm not sure will ever be fully captured in micro heads but it's better than its ever been. The beauty of the WD is the versatility in control over nearly every parameter. The EQ can get darn close to the V4 and the damping feature, particularly at higher volumes, really helps in the feel department.

Now, I tried to push volume a bit but it still wasn't a full on gig/show comparison so some of those nuances might be more noticeable at higher volumes.

If I had one knock on the WD, and it's purely personal preference, is I wish it wasn't quite so bright in its neutral position. But it wasn't intended to be that way and knobs move for a reason. I will agree with a previous comment that the WD has a woody character to it which I always thought was the case with the original Walkabout. The Ampeg has more of its signature grunt.

I think you'd enjoy using the WD in place of the V4 and certainly more than the D800, given your stated preference. YMMV of course and if you can audition one, that's always the best way to go. It's not a high powered V4B but I've been gigging the WD for nearly two months or whenever it came out and just really like it. It gets plenty close enough to make me happy. And I really think you can't beat the feature set for a gigging musician.

I previously owned a reissue V4B, and your experience with the WD800 is quite similar to mine. For me, the WD800 gets a lot closer to the feel of the all tube V4B than any other class D I've tried so far. The WD800 in combo with a couple pedals on my board gets me probably 90% of the way towards the sound/feel of a tube amp, with much less weight and maintenance.

 

[donahue]

Hey WD owners, I've been posting over in the Carbine thread, as I'm interested in an M6/9. I thought I would ask how close is the WD to the Carbine series?

Would it be safe to say that the WD800 falls between a high-powered Walkabout and a lightweight Carbine?

 

[daveobieone]

So to follow up a little, I made a racket this morning for a bit comparing the WD to the V4B.

I think you'd enjoy using the WD in place of the V4 and certainly more than the D800, given your stated preference. YMMV of course and if you can audition one, that's always the best way to go. It's not a high powered V4B but I've been gigging the WD for nearly two months or whenever it came out and just really like it. It gets plenty close enough to make me happy. And I really think you can't beat the feature set for a gigging musician.

Many thanks to Coughdrops and Grimmchaos for all the V4b feedback/comparisons here!!!

I guess before plunking-down a grand, I need to mess with a WD first-hand (or first-eared), but it's certainly at the top of the list of heads I wanna try.

If you guys were to guess, with the Ampeg EQ "nooned", where do you think you needed to set the EQ on the WD800 to match the sound of the V4b most closely? Are you using the damping at minimum? I'd think that would be closer to the tube amp.

On my D800, I usually need to roll back the Treble control to around 10:00 to get rid of too much pick-click. Then I push the High Mid up a bit to around 1:00. I also add a little Bass, and more Mid on the Ampeg SCR-DI that I feed the D800 with. The attached pics shows my normal settings on both. I play with a pick about 40% of the tunes we do, and these settings work pretty well with both that and finger-style. There's no time between songs to fiddle with re-setting the tone controls on the amp. I just pull back the tone on my bass a little (about half) when I grab the pick.

Thanks again very much,
Dave O.

 

[daveobieone]

Speaking of the damping...
I was wondering if the Aged One would give us a little insight as to what Mesa is doing to achieve the lesser damping?
In the world of HiFi, Bob Carver figured out many years ago that he could make a solid-state amp sound/feel much like a tube amp by simply lowering the damping factor. I don't remember now exactly what his approach was, but I believe it had to do with some simple, series resistance in the output lines. I'm probably over-simplifying here, but the amp designer in me is curious what the Mesa approach might be with a Class D.?. Is there much of a power penalty for switching to minimum damping on the WD800?
Dave O.

 

[Coughdrops]

Here's a photo of the WD eq to roughly match. Ample room to adjust further if you'd like.

And also, here's a little sound clip. First pass is V4 at noon, second pass is WD at noon, Third pass is WD with pictured EQ. Recorded into a Tascam and through a Subway 112. Quick and dirty. It's worth noting that the V4 is a bit scratchy sounding and that's not an issue on the WD

 

[agedhorse]

Speaking of the damping...
I was wondering if the Aged One would give us a little insight as to what Mesa is doing to achieve the lesser damping?
In the world of HiFi, Bob Carver figured out many years ago that he could make a solid-state amp sound/feel much like a tube amp by simply lowering the damping factor. I don't remember now exactly what his approach was, but I believe it had to do with some simple, series resistance in the output lines. I'm probably over-simplifying here, but the amp designer in me is curious what the Mesa approach might be with a Class D.?. Is there much of a power penalty for switching to minimum damping on the WD800?
Dave O.

I have followed much of Bob's work since the late 1970's, he has been a strong proponent of modestly lower damping factor for several reasons (including a looser feel and greater amp stability when overdriven). There are other benefits as well, especially when driving highly reactive crossovers (common in the high end hi-fi works).

There are a variety of ways to alter damping factor, and it should be noted that damping factor can vary greatly with frequency.

 

[daveobieone]

I have followed much of Bob's work since the late 1970's, he has been a strong proponent of modestly lower damping factor for several reasons (including a looser feel and greater amp stability when overdriven). There are other benefits as well, especially when driving highly reactive crossovers (common in the high end hi-fi works).

There are a variety of ways to alter damping factor, and it should be noted that damping factor can vary greatly with frequency.

I seem to prefer it as well. My favorite sounding bass amps seem to have tubes outputs, and my favorite HiFi amps either have tubes, or (McIntosh) autoformer outputs, which by nature loosen up the damping (increase the output impedance) a bit. I shouldn't like them better. They don't spec/measure quite as well. But I do prefer the sound.

Thanks for giving us that option on the WD800 O Aged One!!! Can't wait to try one out.
Dave O.

 

[daveobieone]

Here's a photo of the WD eq to roughly match. Ample room to adjust further if you'd like.

And also, here's a little sound clip. First pass is V4 at noon, second pass is WD at noon, Third pass is WD with pictured EQ. Recorded into a Tascam and through a Subway 112. Quick and dirty. It's worth noting that the V4 is a bit scratchy sounding and that's not an issue on the WD



View attachment 3318722

Thanks Coughdrops!
I find it fascinating that if you (sort-of) aggregate the settings on my D800 and SCR-DI, you come up with something similar to what your settings are showing on your WD800 to simulate the V4b. There is a little EQ going on in the SCR-DI even when it's set flat btw.

I'll put that pic of your "V4b emulation" settings in my phone, and start with those when I'm test-driving a WD800. Whenever that opportunity arrives.

Later, when I'm home and have access to a good set of headphones, I'll spend some time with the sound-file.

Thanks very much for this!
Dave O.

 

[Coughdrops]

Thanks Coughdrops!
I find it fascinating that if you (sort-of) aggregate the settings on my D800 and SCR-DI, you come up with something similar to what your settings are showing on your WD800 to simulate the V4b. There is a little EQ going on in the SCR-DI even when it's set flat btw.

I'll put that pic of your "V4b emulation" settings in my phone, and start with those when I'm test-driving a WD800. Whenever that opportunity arrives.

Later, when I'm home and have access to a good set of headphones, I'll spend some time with the sound-file.

Thanks very much for this!
Dave O.

Cool, you're welcome. I hope you like the WD when you get to try it.

 

[bklee]

modest question.
does anyone know if the new Subway WD-800 will fit into the original Walkabout headcase ?
I believe I read that the width and height of the new amp is the same as the Walkabout and can use the WA rack ears, but the WD-800 is not as deep.

It would be really cool if I could put the WD-800 into my Walkabout headcase.

It apparently will fit into the WA Scout head space, so I'm sure it will fit the case.

 

[agedhorse]

The WD is identical to the WA other than being 2" less deep.

 

[fig]

I wish the Parametric EQ had a more defined guide (at least in the owners manual) of its Frequency points.

I’d love it if they drew some pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Is something like this what you're talking about (the dot reference points around the HPF, Low and High Mid freq knobs)?

I did this about 2 weeks ago for my D800+.

If this is what you're wanting, I'll post the generic chart I made and the math (easy) to calculate and plot the positions around the knob. This plotting and math also apply to the WD800 and Plus DI Preamp.

 

[ObsessiveArcher]

Nice reference - thanks!

 

[Stevorebob]

Is something like this what you're talking about (the dot reference points around the HPF, Low and High Mid freq knobs)?
View attachment 3319686
I did this about 2 weeks ago for my D800+.

If this is what you're wanting, I'll post the generic chart I made and the math (easy) to calculate and plot the positions around the knob. This plotting and math also apply to the WD800 and Plus DI Preamp.

Wish more manufacturers — amps and pedals — would do something like this. Just a few additional reference points.

 

[daveobieone]

Is something like this what you're talking about (the dot reference points around the HPF, Low and High Mid freq knobs)?
View attachment 3319686
I did this about 2 weeks ago for my D800+.

If this is what you're wanting, I'll post the generic chart I made and the math (easy) to calculate and plot the positions around the knob. This plotting and math also apply to the WD800 and Plus DI Preamp.

A VERY useful idea!
With a 4 string (which is just about all I play), I'd be curious where 40Hz point on the HPF falls. Very little point in having response below 40 for me, since open E fundamental is about 41Hz. Most of my cabs really won't get there anyway. Little point in boosting things that are just causing my cones to flap around, but not producing much sound.

Knowing were 50Hz is would also be good, since most of us won't get much of anything out of our cabs below that...at least on stage.

Nice work! I assume you are really measuring these things for the 3db down point.?.

Speaking of the High Pass, does that affect the direct out? on the WD/D800+...or just the feed to the power amp? I only have a D800, so I use a HPF pedal from Broughton. The markings on it are very informative.

Dave O.

 

[Haroldo]

A VERY useful idea!
With a 4 string (which is just about all I play), I'd be curious where 40Hz point on the HPF falls. Very little point in having response below 40 for me, since open E fundamental is about 41Hz. Most of my cabs really won't get there anyway. Little point in boosting things that are just causing my cones to flap around, but not producing much sound.

Knowing were 50Hz is would also be good, since most of us won't get much of anything out of our cabs below that...at least on stage.

Nice work! I assume you are really measuring these things for the 3db down point.?.

Speaking of the High Pass, does that affect the direct out? on the WD/D800+...or just the feed to the power amp? I only have a D800, so I use a HPF pedal from Broughton. The markings on it are very informative.
View attachment 3319965
Dave O.

40Hz is at ~55deg (with 0 deg straight down) or maybe 7:30; 50Hz is at 80deg or approximately 8:30 on the clock face.