New Mike Adler TWELVE STRING BASS????

[Garry Goodman]

After testing the new G4 and Ab4 string for several weeks,I discovered that the new string wire allows for something I never expected.If I fret the highest string when tuned to G4 at the pickup cover,I can play the note C8(around 4Khz). The distance from the the 36th fret to the pickup cover is roughly 1/2".Now I just discovered that just by touching the string in that 1/2" space, I am able to play Ab7,A7,Bb7 and B7 just by touching the string without having a fretboard or frets underneath. There is no change in timbre or tone from the G7 on fret 36 to the C8 on the edge of the pickup cover.

So the range of this Adler 12-string is from C0-C8,the same as the 97 note Bosendorfer grand piano.Tuning C#0-C#8 gives me one note higher but I loose the C0 and miss having the E-A-D-G tuning for my 4 highest strings. So I can safely say this "Concert Grand Bass Guitar" has the widest range of any electric guitar or bass guitar.

Audio recordings will be available in the future.We will know soon if a 13-string can be made without fanning the scale 34"-25" .The only reason for 13 strings is to have a second location to play these high notes closer to the 24th fret. I am waiting for the final batch of test strings to see if we've reached the limit.

 

[elros]

Wow! I can't really imagine how those super high notes sound - how they sustain etc. I am really looking forward to some sound clips even more now.

Cool, very cool.

I had a funny thought yesterday though: perhaps with new technology you'll be able to have even thinner strings. I am thinking of nanotubes.

 

[Garry Goodman]

Wow! I can't really imagine how those super high notes sound - how they sustain etc. I am really looking forward to some sound clips even more now.

Cool, very cool.

I had a funny thought yesterday though: perhaps with new technology you'll be able to have even thinner strings. I am thinking of nanotubes.

a very cool suggestion. As it is, the current Ab4 string is (drumroll followed by 10" cymbal crash) as thin as a human hair,so I certainly am open to new technology.

 

[knuckle_head]

< snip > .... We will know soon if a 13-string can be made without fanning the scale 34"-25" .The only reason for 13 strings is to have a second location to play these high notes closer to the 24th fret. I am waiting for the final batch of test strings to see if we've reached the limit.

I delights me to see you keeping Mike (I assume) on his game. He shines when challenged and I do so admire his work.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

Wow! I can't really imagine how those super high notes sound - how they sustain etc. I am really looking forward to some sound clips even more now.

Cool, very cool.

I had a funny thought yesterday though: perhaps with new technology you'll be able to have even thinner strings. I am thinking of nanotubes.

Yeah, that'd be interesting, but the longest conducting carbon nanotube produced to date was 4mm long. I guess if you're going for that short of a scale it might be ok .

 

[Jay Terrien]

God, you guys are all bass crazy and it's all Garry's fault!!

So, if I head down to Adler's Shop, will there be a work in progress 13 there? Will it be pink?

Yeah, that'd be interesting, but the longest conducting carbon nanotube produced to date was 4mm long. I guess if you're going for that short of a scale it might be ok .

 

[ixlramp]

Now I just discovered that just by touching the string in that 1/2" space, I am able to play Ab7,A7,Bb7 and B7 just by touching the string without having a fretboard or frets underneath.

interesting... so your finger acts like a fret when held against the string?

how about 5 more frets?

 

[ixlramp]

elros wrote:

"I had a funny thought yesterday though: perhaps with new technology you'll be able to have even thinner strings."

i meant to post this a while back:
metallic glass
a new type of metal with a tensile strength 3 times that of normal:
Invalid Link Removed

ideal for ERB top strings. i guess the limit will be found when the string cuts your finger when fretting!
i can see 13 and 14 strings in the future...

 

[Garry Goodman]

Yes,I will tell you that the Ab string I am currently using is.....

an .003 ! Over the past two weeks, I've been playing the S#@* out of it, and it hasn't broken . It is actually stronger than an .007 string.It is the 9th attempt at getting an .003 wire made that will tune up to Ab4 at 32".

This is pretty much the only way to get a flexible string on a 32" scale bass. My custom made .007 is the only .007 string I've used that will tune to the same Ab on a short scale,30" scale bass. I tried pretty much every string company's .007 that will reach the tuners,and they all break at F#,G4 at best.Guitarists tell me they can't get an .007 ( a high E string) to tune up to Ab4 on a 25" scale guitar.

I am waiting for a Db5 string hopeful to arrive soon.How come ERb guys are always having to wait for things,stuff and items?

If anybody knows of a bass guitar,other than the Adler 12-string that has an Ab4 string on a 32-34" scale, please contact me.

Also - there is really not a need to add 5 frets to the fretboard except for visual confirmation of the top 5 notes,so the next bass will probably have that extension.

 

[Blazer]

Original message deleted in the wishes of Garry Because apparently I don't have a clue.

Anyway, as for why I ditched my six string. I used my sixer in a Metal band and apart from Maybe Jason Newstead there aren't many metal bassplayers who are using six string basses.

The second reason why I ditched my six string was because of the high tempo the songs we played were in. That wide neck caused injuries in my left thumb. To overcome the pain of the stretch, I had to hang my bass really high but that made it tough to play fingerstyle for me.

I realised that the sixer was too much for me and so I did away with it.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

Good grief, no offense reading all of this makes me wonder what that type of instrument has in common with gigging a good-ol'-off-the-shelf bassguitar (regardless what brand)

Because, you'll need specially made strings and when they break during a gig it'll be hell trying to find replacements not mention how costly it is to keep a supply of strings around to compensate for that.

And on the gigs themselves you'll need seperate amps and cabs for the highs and lows, two seperate PA systems at gigs, so you'll need an enormous backline everytime you'll play live and leaving not much space on stage when doing so.

And (And I know of this by personal experience) regardless on how much you're eventually gonna master the instrument, people will always see you as kind of freak. When I had my six string, I always was referred to as "that kid playing the ironing board" or "The freak with the stringed aircraftcarrier deck" seeing how ticked off you guys get when somebody calls an ERB a name like that I take it that you guys have had your share of titles too. I eventually decided for myself that I wanted people to judge me on my playing NOT my bass and that's why I abandoned the six string and went back to playing four string basses which suited me fine.

Again no offense but for me personally it's not worth the hussle

You know some weird people. I've played my Dingwall 6 string out tons with my band and the only comments I've had were positive. I've watched all sorts of acts with the bass player playing a 6 string and I've never heard any such comments... straight ahead rock, funk and metal. People tend not to care what you're playing so much as what you sound like IME.

That said, based on what you're talking about you're playing for some fairly immature people (maybe teenagers predominantly, no offence intended). Anyway, Garry's playing in a very different environment.

 

[Meehaw]

I play my sixer for almost three years now and I can't recall myself being called names.

 

[Garry Goodman]

Thanks Geoff, Meehaw!
Blazer: You haven't been following this thread,have you?

I started playing 6-string bass in 1964.I bought my Chapman Stick in 1975 and that led to me having a 7-string bass made in the 80's.I purchased the Adler 11-string in 2004 and before that bass was completed this Adler 12-string was already in the planning stages.

Yes,I've been playing 4-string and 6-string bass for about 41 years now.
The 12-string was a work in progress for many years.Not just as a bass,but in it's application. At this point in time ,I have an approach to solo bass guitar that I am pretty sure no one else has.
This instrument,just like the 7-string, evolved out of that concept and those many years of playing.

This wasn't a case of just slapping(n.p.i.) a bass together just to see how many strings we could get on a bass.Every aspect has been carefully reviewed.
It took Jauqo III-X and S.I.T. a while to perfect the .195 string and myself(trying reading some of the posts on this thread) time and effort to be able to have strings so Mike could build a bass with an 8 octave range with a neck that is less than 3/4" thick.

Basson Sound specially designed speakers and cabs for the 11 and 12-string basses.

I hope that you will just take my word for it,I have an idea of what I am doing.


"That is just silly. I'm sorry, but 12 strings is just wrong. More range than a grand piano aye? That's no longer a bass, is a monster, that should be killed off as quickly as possible."-Weeding

 

[oversoul]

And (And I know of this by personal experience) regardless on how much you're eventually gonna master the instrument, people will always see you as kind of freak. When I had my six string, I always was referred to as "that kid playing the ironing board" or "The freak with the stringed aircraftcarrier deck" seeing how ticked off you guys get when somebody calls an ERB a name like that I take it that you guys have had your share of titles too.
I eventually decided for myself that I wanted people to judge me on my playing NOT my bass and that's why I abandoned the six string and went back to playing four string basses which suited me fine.

Again no offense but for me personally it's not worth the hussle

Seems to me you care too much about what other people say, if you ditched the sixer because of a bunch of bad jokes from your homies...

oh, and we only get really pissed of when someone pulls the harp joke for the 15045000000001 time....

 

[Lokire]

Because, you'll need specially made strings and when they break during a gig it'll be hell trying to find replacements not mention how costly it is to keep a supply of strings around to compensate for that.

And on the gigs themselves you'll need seperate amps and cabs for the highs and lows, two seperate PA systems at gigs, so you'll need an enormous backline everytime you'll play live and leaving not much space on stage when doing so.

I guess you haven't read all the posts about how much R&D went into creating these strings. Generally, when you have a quality instrument, with quality strings, and a player who knows what he's doing - strings don't just break.


But I'm wondering (working for a live-sound company myself) - what kind of PA do you usually play through, Garry? I know the Bassoons are made to handle the ultra-low notes of the Adler, but most Subs in a PA rig don't go much lower than 25-30Hz. Do you rely on the Bassoon cabs alone to get those notes out to the audience or do the subs in the PA reproduce enough of the harmonics to make it work?

 

[Garry Goodman]

I guess you haven't read all the posts about how much R&D went into creating these strings. Generally, when you have a quality instrument, with quality strings, and a player who knows what he's doing - strings don't just break.


But I'm wondering (working for a live-sound company myself) - what kind of PA do you usually play through, Garry? I know the Bassoons are made to handle the ultra-low notes of the Adler, but most Subs in a PA rig don't go much lower than 25-30Hz. Do you rely on the Bassoon cabs alone to get those notes out to the audience or do the subs in the PA reproduce enough of the harmonics to make it work?

The Basson b310sc (700w)has 3 tens and a switchable piezo .The B510sc (1300w) has 5 10's and a 1" compression driver, and utilizes a 3 -way cross over. The Bh15's are P.A. cabs with 1' drivers and a 15 in each cab. The bh15(300w) cabs have a transient quality with the human voice that sound guys seem to like.

I've played the 12 through the b510 at winter NAMM. I was tuned to Bb00-F4 then and it seemed to have a nice clean even timbre across the 10 bands.

I practice the bass monitoring with headphones or through a Hartkey "kickback". The C0 string doesn't come through that amp.

For most live playing,the b310sc seems to handle C0-C8 and have good quality.I like the sound of the Piezo compared to the compression drivers, They seem a little "Harsh" to me. The 510 and 310 have low end specs @18 Hz,the bh15's bottom out at 40Hz. The 510 and 310 carry the subs well and have great high end response.

I have a good friend who has been designing amps for Basson,so I am still waiting for their Bass head to be finished.The 110watt guitar amp is killer.

As you know this is a long,on going process ,so I haven't really gotten into fine tuning the sound system because the bass is still a prototype.
If I think of the bass,amp and speakers as one thing, I still have a ways to go. If I had to play right now,the Basson B310SC handles this bass and it is relatively small (like 1/2 a Marshall stack).

Thanks for your post!

 

[ixlramp]

So, if I head down to Adler's Shop, will there be a work in progress 13 there? Will it be pink?

i'm still waiting for the 13 string hello kitty bass, that sounds like a cute idea...

 

[Garry Goodman]

well if you tune down lower than the original 12-string tuning of Bb00-F
to Ab00-Ab4 ,you could have a 13 string just for the sake of having 13 strings. You'd probably have to pay an additional licensing fee to Hello Kitty (TM)

 

[ixlramp]

just thought this was a pleasing tuning idea:

13 string bass, 36 frets, tuned from C0

C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G C

the top string C5 will be 5 octaves above the lowest C0 string. 5 octaves of range is thus created across the strings. 3 extra octaves C5 to C8 is created by the 36 frets. a lovely parallel with the extended range bosendorfer piano

that top string is going to be difficult though. good luck Garry and Mr. Adler!

 

[Garry Goodman]

just thought this was a pleasing tuning idea:

13 string bass, 36 frets, tuned from C0

C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G C

the top string C5 will be 5 octaves above the lowest C0 string. 5 octaves of range is thus created across the strings. 3 extra octaves C5 to C8 is created by the 36 frets. a lovely parallel with the extended range bosendorfer piano

that top string is going to be difficult though. good luck Garry and Mr. Adler!

Thanks
Well as it is we have the Bosendorfer C0-C8 with 12-strings . The highest I have been able to tune any of the strings to is Ab4 at 32" and the same string to Bb4 on a 24-1/2" scale guitar. So we shall see if the final batch of wire will yield C5.

Unfortunately there are only a small group of us who see the potential of having a bass guitar with this 8 octave range. I have seen many forums on the internet with threads devoted to bashing this bass.
Some are intimidated by what they think is a huge,unplayable guitar. Some think that Bass guitar can only be a 4-string.Some think it's a guitar or a "tapping" instrument. The term Extended Range Bass would seem to indicate that we took a limited range instrument and extended it. The basic physical properties are the same ,but all basses-4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 6 string guitars fit somewher within the 8 octave range of the Adler 12.
This instrument began as a 12-string,so it is not extended.It has lower bass notes than a 4 or 5-string and higher notes than a guitar or any touch style instrument. It is it's own entity,and extreme range guitar or bass. A Concert Grand Bass/Guitar might be appropriate.

It is just that for the bassist or guitarist or the touch instrumentalist who wants the entire range at his/her finger tips.

Demo recordings are on the way.