Double Bass New! Pirastro Perpetual Double Bass strings

[Fran Diaz]

I was NOT separated from the other instruments. The drummer even requested that we NOT put the gobos in front of his drums because he likes to hear the drums resonate. We were all in a room that is about 10 x 20 with acoustical treatment on the walls but no separation.

To demonstrate, below is the bass track from the recording. You can hear for yourself how little bleed there is.
Some time ago, Peter Axelson (the designer of the Chuck Israels mic) suggested I try blending a piezo with the mic to add some extra high-frequency material. Well, like a dummy I never did anything about that until today when I remembered his suggestion and tried it in my studio. I think this is a MUCH BETTER sound in that it keeps the rich natural sound of the mic but adds some crispness and high end from the piezo. I run each into a separate channel of my 'Genzlihur' amp and I cut the highs on the mic channel to avoid feedback. Then I cut the lows on the piezo channel to get rid of that 'rubber band sound'. I also cut a bit around 600 hz on the piezo channel to get rid of the dreaded 'piezo quack'. I think the result is going to be really nice, both live and recording. The second clip is with the Zoom recorder about a foot in front of the Genzler Acoustic Pro amp with the mic and piezo blended as described above.

What the piezo adds in this clip is what I don't like to hear; It may sound better in the final mix with the rest of the instruments, but isolated not so much.

 

[rickwolff]

What the piezo adds in this clip is what I don't like to hear; It may sound better in the final mix with the rest of the instruments, but isolated not so much.

Fran, I can't disagree. I think that clip had too much piezo. I remixed it with about 80% microphone and 20% piezo just to give it a little more definition. I'll also include the original Chuck Israels Mic Alone from the Pre-EQ DI for comparison.

The difference is pretty subtle now, I think either one would work fine, the little bit of piezo perhaps brightens it up a bit.

For recording I can run the Mic Pre-EQ DI, but for live I have to cut the Highs (above 5K on the Genzler) to avoid feedback. The piezo can be used to add some of those highs back in without causing feedback.

 

[Sam Dingle]

I experienced a drastic drop in sound last night on a gig. start of the 3rd set bass was suddenly darker. Not as much sustain. I checked my left hand technique and that got slightly better. Now the growl on the E string is not there like it once was. The strings feel a little stiffer. I switched from my realist to my full circle to get a little more highs to hear myself. This sadly reminds me a little of the drop in sound I used to get from Evahs. Time will tell. Ill upload a video to show it.

Some may like this, but I was just really getting into the sound of these. Bright but not overbearing. Not about to jump ship but that was annoying.

 

[Sam Dingle]

just feel like i need to work harder for more sustain. Hmmmm

 

[rickwolff]

Sam,

That seems really bizarre. "a drastic drop in sound last night on a gig. start of the 3rd set bass was suddenly darker.

I've never heard of, nor experienced a sudden change in strings, but rather a very gradual change over time.

Did your Evahs used to change suddenly like that also??

Is it possible anything changed on the bass? Like it got bumped and the bridge moved or something???

 

[Sam Dingle]

Sam,

That seems really bizarre. "a drastic drop in sound last night on a gig. start of the 3rd set bass was suddenly darker.

I've never heard of, nor experienced a sudden change in strings, but rather a very gradual change over time.

Did your Evahs used to change suddenly like that also??

Is it possible anything changed on the bass? Like it got bumped and the bridge moved or something???

nope bass is fine. nothing else changed. i'll keep an eye on it i guess

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I listened through a tiny phone speaker but I didn’t hear any difference. They still sound like Spiros minus the low-mid wool to me.

 

[Sam Dingle]

I listened through a tiny phone speaker but I didn’t hear any difference. They still sound like Spiros minus the low-mid wool to me.

this is true. But these sound like OLDER sprios if that makes sense. more broken in than a few days ago. It just seemed drastic.

Evahs always felt more stiff and lost brightness after 2 months when I used them, then they opened up again. Thats all to report.

 

[Sam Dingle]

AND this is coming from the drivers seat. All could be different to the listener.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Perhaps something happened to you ears. (A change in air pressure, ear wax. sinus issue, etc)

 

[Sam Dingle]

Perhaps something happened to you ears. (A change in air pressure, ear wax. sinus issue, etc)

All possible!

 

[Sam Dingle]

They lost a bit of whine IMO but it could just be me. Take that video as a 3 month update then

 

[Fran Diaz]

Fran, I can't disagree. I think that clip had too much piezo. I remixed it with about 80% microphone and 20% piezo just to give it a little more definition. I'll also include the original Chuck Israels Mic Alone from the Pre-EQ DI for comparison.

The difference is pretty subtle now, I think either one would work fine, the little bit of piezo perhaps brightens it up a bit.

For recording I can run the Mic Pre-EQ DI, but for live I have to cut the Highs (above 5K on the Genzler) to avoid feedback. The piezo can be used to add some of those highs back in without causing feedback.

Much better now but I still find the mic only track a piece of beauty, especially in the mix; are the stereo mics of the H6 also in the final mix? and do they also captured the DB?

 

[DaveAceofBass]

just feel like i need to work harder for more sustain. Hmmmm

All strings get old. Yours still sound bright to me. Maybe your body chemistry or your location is more prone to acidity / humidity / sweat and they are just getting worn out quicker.

 

[basss]

They lost a bit of whine IMO but it could just be me. Take that video as a 3 month update then

I went back and compared the sound on your 3 week clip to the newest one and it's much darker now to my ears - although still what I'd call a bright growly broken in spiro-like sound. It sounds like I'd expect after a few months of play time, no string sounds new for ever, but kinda weird that it happened all at once.

I replaced some 1.5 y.o. spiros with perps and agree with the general consensus - very spiro like, maybe a little more thump in the low mids and less upper mids than spiros. Spiro S42W's were a bit softer feeling on my bass. The Perp E sounds more open and growly than I remember the spiro E sounding when new. I am getting some twang from the G but it seems to be calming down a bit after a couple weeks. The perps sound better in thumb position to me and bowing is maybe slightly easier/less scratchy than spiros but not a huge difference. I like them a lot. If they last and don't degrade to a dull thud like obligatos did on my bass I may buy them again.

 

[rickwolff]

Much better now but I still find the mic only track a piece of beauty, especially in the mix; are the stereo mics of the H6 also in the final mix? and do they also captured the DB?

Fran, I was only recording the two DI's to the XLR inputs on the recorder. The attached XY mic on the H6 was not active.

I'll have to do another recording and use the onboard XY mics placed about a foot in front of the bridge. That is still the very best recorded sound I get from my bass.

I appreciate your input!

 

[Fran Diaz]

Fran, I was only recording the two DI's to the XLR inputs on the recorder. The attached XY mic on the H6 was not active.

I'll have to do another recording and use the onboard XY mics placed about a foot in front of the bridge. That is still the very best recorded sound I get from my bass.

I appreciate your input!

All your detailed recordings are greatly appreciated. I have to thank you for test driving some of the gear that I use at the moment: the DB-1 pickup, the Upshot,...who knows whatelse in the future.

 

[rickwolff]

Much better now but I still find the mic only track a piece of beauty, especially in the mix; are the stereo mics of the H6 also in the final mix? and do they also captured the DB?

Fran, you were asking whether I had used the onboard mics with the H6. I did not, BUT I just recorded a little clip with the Q8 using the onboard mics, as well as the Pre-EQ DI for the Chuck Israels mic, and the Post DI with blending the 'Chuck' with a little piezo from the KNA.

All your detailed recordings are greatly appreciated. I have to thank you for test driving some of the gear that I use at the moment: the DB-1 pickup, the Upshot,...who knows what else in the future.

Here's another for you, Fran,

I did another little recording with the Perpetuals. I did 3 tracks:

1. The Pre-EQ DI from the Chuck Israels Mic channel (so this is flat)
2. The Post-EQ DI from the Chuck blended with a little bit of KNA piezo. I cut the Chuck above 5k which I do to prevent feedback in a live situation, and I cut some low end from the KNA so it was just adding back some of the highs.
3. The onboard XY mic on the Zoom Q8

The video is a blending of all three signals.

 

[Fran Diaz]

Thanks Rick, I really like the sound in the video. I also can hear the Input 2 blended with the KNA piezo being excellent in a band setting, and not far from the all acoustic sound of the XY mics; a very natural tone with articulation, body and warmth...anyway, I'd be happy getting the tone in any of these tracks for myself.

 

[dylanjohnson]

just feel like i need to work harder for more sustain. Hmmmm

Is it raining there off and on? Every time the humidity goes up here in California, my bass seems to have less sustain, feels stiffer, and is generally harder to play. I guess if you are in Florida the air is probably like a wet blanket right now.