Double Bass New! Pirastro Perpetual Double Bass strings

[Sam Dingle]

Like...it doesn't feel like they aren't mediums. Really more like Weich strings.

 

[bassfiddlesteve]

What would be the advantage of playing down-tuned Perpetual solos? The regular set is already fairly low tension and thin in gauge.

- Steve

 

[Sam Dingle]

What would be the advantage of playing down-tuned Perpetual solos? The regular set is already fairly low tension and thin in gauge.

- Steve

Thats what I'm wondering haha. They are a little looser but not by a ton...

 

[john-boro]

initial impression for me is the jury is out. On my bass they are significantly thinner and looser than 3/4 Spirocore Weich. It may that they’re just on the low side of the threshold tension where the bass opens up, or maybe I need to play with string height.

Anyway, they’re lovely play and I like the sound and feel— reminds me a bit of Thomastik InFeld jazz roundwound BG strings. The nice ‘click’ from evahs is there.

Just lacking a little bit of guts and low-mids-richness on my bass and in contrast to others I do find myself overplaying them. Maybe they don’t choke out as such but I reach a volume limit and find hands tiring from slamming them a bit too hard.


All may change as I get used to them, but first impressions are that they actually did a lot to show me just how well the 3/4 Weichs work on my bass. So we’ll see!

 

[Sam Dingle]

I'm going back to this with the mediums:

Spiro 4/4 mediums on my juzek just felt tight, spiro 4/4 weich felt great but didn't cut through the band and the perpetuals feel like slightly higher 4/4 weich but with the cutting power of mediums...maybe SLIGHTLY less but the reward of feel and tone quality make up for it.

 

[Francois Blais]

initial impression for me is the jury is out. On my bass they are significantly thinner and looser than 3/4 Spirocore Weich. It may that they’re just on the low side of the threshold tension where the bass opens up, or maybe I need to play with string height.

Are you talking of the solos or regulars?

 

[john-boro]

Are you talking of the solos or regulars?

Regulars. Going to give them a longer go but keeping my 3/4 weich E in place maybe. They seem lovely and to be fair I haven’t given them long to break in yet. It was just interesting to me that a lot of the nice properties: punch, ‘puff’ and even some click were there already with the weichs, at least on my bass.

 

[TroyK]

Sweichs work very well on my bass too. Sonically, arco and pizz they are fantastic. I did feel with them that I had to hold back with my right hand a bit. A little thin and a little soft. Unfortunately, Smittles feel stiff on my bass, even the S42s.

So gauges and tension data aside, I don't feel that about the feel of the Perpetuals. There is enough there that I can just lay into them and not think about it.

I left Spirocore Weichs for Jazzers for feel more than sound, though I did like the sound of Jazzers, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't use their G string and wasn't always as happy with the D as the lower strings.

I never mixed Spirocores with Jazzers because as much as we like to compare them to each other, side by side they sound very different to me. You might say hamburgers and hot dogs are the same type of food, but they actually don't taste anything alike. That's Spirocores and Jazzers to me.

Perpetuals are more like Jazzers than Spirocores, but I think they just got this set right.

 

[john-boro]

Sweichs work very well on my bass too. Sonically, arco and pizz they are fantastic. I did feel with them that I had to hold back with my right hand a bit. A little thin and a little soft. Unfortunately, Smittles feel stiff on my bass, even the S42s.

So gauges and tension data aside, I don't feel that about the feel of the Perpetuals. There is enough there that I can just lay into them and not think about it.

I left Spirocore Weichs for Jazzers for feel more than sound, though I did like the sound of Jazzers, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't use their G string and wasn't always as happy with the D as the lower strings.

I never mixed Spirocores with Jazzers because as much as we like to compare them to each other, side by side they sound very different to me. You might say hamburgers and hot dogs are the same type of food, but they actually don't taste anything alike. That's Spirocores and Jazzers to me.

Perpetuals are more like Jazzers than Spirocores, but I think they just got this set right.

well described TroyK . I do wonder if it might be a transatlantic thing partly — I gather that 3/4 Weichs are rare in the US but over in the UK they are more common, and that’s the set I mean felt stiffer than the Perpetuals. Just wanted to clarify that so we don’t confuse anyone browsing

 

[TroyK]

My bass has a longish mensure and a thin table, so it just doesn't handle even normal tension all that well. I've played basses with Spirocore Mittles that felt great, but it's just not how it is with my instrument.

I don't know for sure, but I think I was using S42 Weich back when I did...and they were great. If S42 Mittles felt and sounded like that, I'd be happy. But, Pirastro has produced better choices for my bass.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

well described TroyK . I do wonder if it might be a transatlantic thing partly — I gather that 3/4 Weichs are rare in the US but over in the UK they are more common, and that’s the set I mean felt stiffer than the Perpetuals. Just wanted to clarify that so we don’t confuse anyone browsing

I compared the Spirocores both 3/4 and 4/4 Weichs to the Perpetuals. Perpetuals are more flexible than both...if you hold the string over your finger, the Perpetuals drape over like a fully cooked wet noodle, Spirocores do not give as much. That said, J agree that the perceived tension is slightly higher on 3/4 Weichs compared to Perps, whereas the 4/4 Weichs might be a bit lighter. That said, Perpetuals did not give me the sound I wanted on my plywood King Mortone (back to the Spiro/Obligato mix) but they are nicer on my fully carved Kolstein Guarneri.

 

[TroyK]

We've talked about this before, tension and flexibility/stiffness as different things. We tend to perceive them as the same thing on the bass.
There are stiff, low tension strings and more flexible higher tension strings. Tension has an effect on how the table moves, stiffness/flexibility/suppleness probably doesn't, but it does change how the strings feel when you are playing them.

 

[john-boro]

indeed. from a physics point of view the strings have a rigidity against bending. Imagine a string which doesn’t have that, i.e. is infinitely flexible so could be bent with no resistance *if* the ends up the string were both free. when the strings are installed, the ends are not free so plucking the string means doing work against the tension of the string — you are effectively lengthening the string by plucking it (/also deforming the bass slightly, in reality).

so yes I agree tension and bending are different and I hope someone has done a really interesting study on how they both contribute to the resistance felt, and the force transmitted to the string and bass, when plucking. in the case of 3/4 Weichs versus perpetuals it appears both that the tension is higher and that the overall feel is tighter, on my bass anyway

 

[Sam Dingle]

Ok here is my thoughts on the solos:

I don't like them. They aren't horrible they are good strings and a solo string player should like them. I don't like the tension and on my backup bass I want something very much like my #1 bass.

So for now they come off and the mediums are going back on.

 

[TroyK]

Ok here is my thoughts on the solos:

I don't like them. They aren't horrible they are good strings and a solo string player should like them. I don't like the tension and on my backup bass I want something very much like my #1 bass.

So for now they come off and the mediums are going back on.

That checks out. Based on fooling with this a decade ago or whenever it was, tuning solo strings to orchestra pitch is potentially a good solution to a problem, like working through an injury or accommodating a special bass circumstance or maybe something to do with slap...which I don't really know anything about.

They certainly work as regular strings, but not as well as...wait for it... regular strings.

 

[Sam Dingle]

strange but today while playing for FSU auditions i noticed my D string slipping out of tune a bit. It seemed like every person played sentimental mood and each time I played it I had to adjust the d string as it had gone flat. My teacher pointed it out at first (i should have noticed, my bad) but it was strange. Never had that happen so often. Gonna keep an eye on it.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

That checks out. Based on fooling with this a decade ago or whenever it was, tuning solo strings to orchestra pitch is potentially a good solution to a problem, like working through an injury or accommodating a special bass circumstance or maybe something to do with slap...which I don't really know anything about.

They certainly work as regular strings, but not as well as...wait for it... regular strings.

On my King Mortone, which has a longer 43.5” scale, I have used Spiro S42 Weichs for years. I tried the 3885 Weichs but they were too tight, and I tried the Perps but they were too bright and just not a good match. I tried regular Obligatos, but they quickly wore out at the bridge and started “rolling” as they are known to do. The S42 Weichs were the best match, but the D and G were too shrill especially with the bow. So now I’m using solo gauge Obligatos on the D and G and Spiro S42 Weichs on the E and A...this has been the best sound and setup I have had on that bass.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Very interesting to read the varied reactions to these strings.

I sent away to Pirastro for some trial strings and recently mounted them on Maiken's bass. For those who don't know, its a lovely fifties bass from Bavaria, made by Johan Rauner, a cottage builder for the Wilfer family. The woods are fabulous - the external maple linings are so curly I can't believe he could bend the material without breaking!
I have done some work to it and it has been her main bass for five or six years now.

It started out post-restoration with 3/4 Spiro Weichs 3885.0W and a Lycon 'G' string but has ended up with Pirastro Jazzer E/A/D and a Lycon 'G'. It has plenty of bottom overlaid with a huge overtone series, a very present sound that can cut or caress, depending.

The Pirastro Perpetuals (which feel very soft and noodle-y in the hand off the bass, just like Lycons) feel very nice on the bass but don't have the harmonic range of the Jazzers. They are kinda like slightly quieter Evah Pirazzis without the awful stiffness of those strings. Its a very nice dark sound and would probably sound great amplified but Maiken had me take them off after one evening with full bluegrass band.

Edit: I forgot to say that the Perpetuals sound lovely with my German Rickard bow: and they start beautifully, even for me!!!

So if anyone in the Vancouver area wants to try these strings, email me: jake AT thebassspa.com.

 

[Don Hergert]

Jake, what did Maiken like or not like about the Perps related to bluegrass? Also, as a member of the band, what did you think of them for bluegrass?

 

[TroyK]

Wow, Jake, I'm surprised. I would never think of Evah Pirazzis in the context of Perpetuals. I agree that they are not quite like Jazzers sonically. The lower Jazzer set is much aggressive out of the gates, but they mellow out over the first month or so. I'd have to A/B them to really get a clean comparison, but I thought that they were more alike than different and a long way from EPs?

But I do trust your ear.