Im really glad that everyone has a diverse opinion of songs they like or aren't too fond of. Different strokes for different folks.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
New Rush thread
- Thread starter fleabee
- Start date
If anything, it shows that Rush has suceeded in creating a strong and diverse album!
I'm seeing them live in October!
Forgive me if this story has been told already, but I just read something very interesting in Bass Guitar magazine. Geddy is on the cover, and in the story, he says that he recorded "Malignant Narcissism" with a fretless Fender Jaco Pastorius bass. Fender sent it to the studio where they were recording, and Geddy was messing around with it between vocal takes and came up with all the riffs. The vocal mic was picking it all up, so the engineer rolled tape and they wound up turning it into what we hear on the CD. Geddy says he used the fretless for the actual recording. He described the bass as "amazing" and said Fender has sent him a fretted version, and he'll be bringing both of them out on tour. Pretty cool, eh?
Is this the first fretless bass on a Rush album?
Is this the first fretless bass on a Rush album?
"Malignant Narcissism" recorded with a fretless??
it does not sounds like....
anyway, if geddy said that.....
it makes me wonder, what the hell this man has on his fingertips???
it does not sounds like....
anyway, if geddy said that.....
it makes me wonder, what the hell this man has on his fingertips???
Alvaro Martín Gómez A.
TalkBass' resident Bongo + cowbell player
"Malignant Narcissism" recorded with a fretless??
it does not sounds like....
anyway, if geddy said that.....
it makes me wonder, what the hell this man has on his fingertips???
Exactly my thoughts. The only clue of being a fretless is the final slide. Definitely, Geddy was born with a unique gift.
i just realized how cool the vocals are in the verses of "good news first"
it sounds almost as if hes hissing them.
it sounds almost as if hes hissing them.
"Malignant Narcissism" recorded with a fretless??
it does not sounds like....
If the story about Geddy messing around with a fretless is accurate, then this should be expected. Geddy's not a fretless player, so he likely played it like a fretted bass but adding a couple slides here and there. God knows that's all I do on my homemade fretless.
I've listened to Snakes & Arrows a few times now and, as a Rush fan since '74, I'm noticing an alarming trend developing with Vapor Trails and this album. The muddy production is frustrating! The whole album sounds mixed down and dynamically processed to the point where the brightness of the arrangements is dead.
Alex's guitar playing is incredible on the album. Neil's drumming is, of course, solid, if a bit predictable. Geddy's playing is fine and experimental, as usual. Geddy's voice has never sounded more lifeless, however, and his phrasing is mind-numbingly bad. It sounds as though the majority of the vocals are first runs, toying with ideas for a melody that never materializes. Like Vapor Trails, the lyrics seem to be forced into the verses and Geddy is merely reciting what Neil wrote. Really bad, in my opinion.
Snakes & Arrows is a diverse collection of riffs, rhythms and jamming with Peart's lyrics being tossed around inside barely existent melodies.
I don't believe we'll ever see the cohesive, superb songwriting found on albums like Presto, Grace Under Pressure or Counterparts ever again from Rush. I also believe some main ingredient is missing from their efforts, extremely evident in their lost sense of melody, terrible vocal phrasing and abominable production.
Can't wait to see them in September!!!
TOMANO
Alex's guitar playing is incredible on the album. Neil's drumming is, of course, solid, if a bit predictable. Geddy's playing is fine and experimental, as usual. Geddy's voice has never sounded more lifeless, however, and his phrasing is mind-numbingly bad. It sounds as though the majority of the vocals are first runs, toying with ideas for a melody that never materializes. Like Vapor Trails, the lyrics seem to be forced into the verses and Geddy is merely reciting what Neil wrote. Really bad, in my opinion.
Snakes & Arrows is a diverse collection of riffs, rhythms and jamming with Peart's lyrics being tossed around inside barely existent melodies.
I don't believe we'll ever see the cohesive, superb songwriting found on albums like Presto, Grace Under Pressure or Counterparts ever again from Rush. I also believe some main ingredient is missing from their efforts, extremely evident in their lost sense of melody, terrible vocal phrasing and abominable production.
Can't wait to see them in September!!!
TOMANO
As others have said, it's great that folks have diverse opinions on Rush. I'm impressed at how often people have polar opposite opinions of Rush things from what I have. The following provides a great example. IMO, I would use these words:
The song-writing on S&A, IMO, is cool because of the combination of dark lyrics, extremely different parts that nonetheless mesh.
With most criticisms of S&A I've heard, I've been able to say "I can see why someone would feel that way". When it comes to the "phrasing" issue, there are a couple of spots where my first impression was that the words were a bit cluttered. Honestly, none of them bother me now, but I did notice them.
Of course, all of this is my opinion. I respect yours, and indeed we might both feel differently than someone who pines for 70's Rush, but in the end we'd all be right -- Different strokes!
HooBass
To describe these albums:
And in particular I'd praise Snakes and Arrows because its production, IMO, is awesome. To me, it's not overprocessed, not overcompressed, not brittle (see Counterparts).
The song-writing on S&A, IMO, is cool because of the combination of dark lyrics, extremely different parts that nonetheless mesh.
And again, I felt his vox were superb. In those past albums i sensed each take was "passable", but not always empassioned. With Snakes and Arrows I sense more passion, like many takes were made before finding the right one.
With most criticisms of S&A I've heard, I've been able to say "I can see why someone would feel that way". When it comes to the "phrasing" issue, there are a couple of spots where my first impression was that the words were a bit cluttered. Honestly, none of them bother me now, but I did notice them.
Of course, all of this is my opinion. I respect yours, and indeed we might both feel differently than someone who pines for 70's Rush, but in the end we'd all be right -- Different strokes!
HooBass
What? After Roll The Bones, Presto, Hold Your Fire and Power Windows, Counterparts seems like the most ridiculously bitty album around. I blame Kevin Shirley for his bad influence on the band, having came from a hard rock background, he wasn't really equipped to deal with a band as talented as Rush. Plus, like Peter Collins said, he had moved away from the pop scene and was much more into producing for hard rock acts.
The result: a weak, uninteresting (at least for Rush) record with a misguided sense of direction. For the most part, the songs are lacklustre, the melodies largely non-existant and the production lacking. Whatever happened to brilliant sounding Rush albums? Even the cold, dry sounding production job on Presto courtesy of Rupert Hine couldn't spoil the brilliance of the songs, but on Counterparts, the production is weak and the songs are sub-par. "Leave that thing alone" is really the only track I'd listen to off that record for fun. Thank god they got their mojo back in time for Test For Echo!
Of course, I don't think there has ever been a better band than Rush, but Counterparts is pretty poor given that they were coming right out of the prime era of their career.
I also agree that Geddy's vocals feel distant. I wouldn't say heartless, and his singing has improved, but his vocal lines and the character of his voice just doesn't do it for me anymore. Neither does his 70's shrieking, but in the 80s he had some tremendous vocal performances (Red Sector A anyone?).
Still, the production value on this album is excellent, in my opinion.
Still, the production value on this album is excellent, in my opinion.
Speaking of great vocal performances in the 80's...
Kid Gloves
Time Stand Still
Emotion Detector
Grand Designs
Presto
Red Tide
Afterimage
Mission
Oh, how I could go on.
Kid Gloves
Time Stand Still
Emotion Detector
Grand Designs
Presto
Red Tide
Afterimage
Mission
Oh, how I could go on.
Interesting how people can come away from a recording like this with such opposite feelings (I'm also discussing the album on a Cakewalk forum where a few folks think the production is horrible, which I couldn't disagree with more). I think Geddy is particularly strong on S&A vocally, for example the way he belts out the lyrics on Spindrift, the little bluesy inflections at the end of Bravest Face... some very nice performances.
I believe one would be hard pressed to hum the melody line to any of the S&A songs. I really want to like new Rush, believe me!
Vapor Trails and S & A are a new sounding band and miles away from everything else they've done. In my opinion, for the worse.
My feeling is that the band's writing and recording process is much different now than back in their heyday. Probably much more democratic, with each member being allowed to put in whatever favorite musical passages they want.
I would also argue that, fine playing aside, the attention to any melody "hooks" was practically one hundred percent absent.
Back to you...
TOMANO
Vapor Trails and S & A are a new sounding band and miles away from everything else they've done. In my opinion, for the worse.
My feeling is that the band's writing and recording process is much different now than back in their heyday. Probably much more democratic, with each member being allowed to put in whatever favorite musical passages they want.
I would also argue that, fine playing aside, the attention to any melody "hooks" was practically one hundred percent absent.
Back to you...
TOMANO
With a few weeks of listening, I think I prefer Vapor Trails to this record. I can't remember if I have said that before here, but man, VT gets better every day. As it is though, Rush have always been very democratic in writing the music.
Sounding almost like a different band shouldn't be surprising. Listen to Fly by Night next to Signals and tell me if they sound like the same band.
I personally love both VT and S&A. The only thing that I think S&A has over VT is that it grooves a bit better, and the production is MUCH better. Geddy's vocals are pretty nice this time around, I think.
I personally love both VT and S&A. The only thing that I think S&A has over VT is that it grooves a bit better, and the production is MUCH better. Geddy's vocals are pretty nice this time around, I think.
TOMANO, I'm really surprised to hear you say that you think there are no hooks on S&A. I find myself singing the hook to every tune when i'm not listening to the album. I find this to be one of the more catchy Rush albums in recent years (not that there have been too many albums recently) - chorus-wise.
I also find that my fav Rush era is the late 70's early 80's and my least favorite is the late 80's (Power Windows, Grace, Presto - I really like Hold Your Fire) which most here seem to really enjoy over some of the earlier stuff. S&A is such a great album as a whole IMHO.
I also find that my fav Rush era is the late 70's early 80's and my least favorite is the late 80's (Power Windows, Grace, Presto - I really like Hold Your Fire) which most here seem to really enjoy over some of the earlier stuff. S&A is such a great album as a whole IMHO.
I'm going to continue to revisit it the same way I did/do Vapor Trails in an attempt to finally hear what I'm possibly missing.
TOMANO
I'm liking it a lot.
One observation about recent Rush instrumentals, though. I've been trying for years to put my finger on why the newer ones (since, maybe, Counterparts) are not as good as the classic ones. I think it's the lack of unison licks between Geddy and Alex. If you go back to the old stuff, listen for all the riffs they played together - the first minute or so of YYZ is an example. They don't do much of that anymore, and I suspect it is partially because it takes a lot more time to bring it together.
But, again, on the whole, I think Snakes and Arrows is a very good outing for the band.
One observation about recent Rush instrumentals, though. I've been trying for years to put my finger on why the newer ones (since, maybe, Counterparts) are not as good as the classic ones. I think it's the lack of unison licks between Geddy and Alex. If you go back to the old stuff, listen for all the riffs they played together - the first minute or so of YYZ is an example. They don't do much of that anymore, and I suspect it is partially because it takes a lot more time to bring it together.
But, again, on the whole, I think Snakes and Arrows is a very good outing for the band.
everytime I hope Rush is going to floor me with their new album it doesn't happen. Just more blandness and I really want to like it. But it just isn't that great...
