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New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

#2,061
Rafbass77 said:
Thanks for the answer, but I'm mainly interested in a comparison of the effects quality and the transparency of the bypass. I have a b3n for a few months, but I find the quality of modulation effects, and not only, lower than my line6 m5 as the bypass quality.
Boss GT-1B vs Zoom b3n - sound quality and bypass
Click to expand...

You need to go back quite a few pages in this thread to find quite the lengthy discussion of the bypass state of the B3n. My personal testing revealed (to me) that when set properly for unity gain (via global output level), the tuner/bypass mode is virtually indistinguishable from a true, hard wired bypass.

You'd have to describe in quite a bit of detail what you mean regarding your feelings on the quality of the modulations vs. the M5. Without knowing a bit more where it seems you're having trouble, it's difficult for us to weigh in. I personally have had no trouble with the modulation effects I use, balancing them, or getting the desired effect...but that's just me.

Would you like me to find you where quality of bypass is discussed in this thread?
 
#2,063
jimfist said:
You need to go back quite a few pages in this thread to find quite the lengthy discussion of the bypass state of the B3n. My personal testing revealed (to me) that when set properly for unity gain (via global output level), the tuner/bypass mode is virtually indistinguishable from a true, hard wired bypass.

You'd have to describe in quite a bit of detail what you mean regarding your feelings on the quality of the modulations vs. the M5. Without knowing a bit more where it seems you're having trouble, it's difficult for us to weigh in. I personally have had no trouble with the modulation effects I use, balancing them, or getting the desired effect...but that's just me.

Would you like me to find you where quality of bypass is discussed in this thread?
Click to expand...
I left my opinion in the discussion on the b3n bypass and I also guessed the b3n tracks in the blind test. In my opinion the b3n does not have a transparent bypass, this lack is more evident in front of an amp.
I've noticed that the gt-1b has, unlike the b3n, two selectable output modes, a headphone line and the other amp with and without tweeter, I think this choice can make a difference in the bypass or at least hope.
As far as the best quality of m5 modulation is concerned, they feel much more natural chorus species, the phaser much better in definition and quality, even the much higher octave without the least trace loss.
 
#2,064
Rafbass77 said:
I left my opinion in the discussion on the b3n bypass and I also guessed the b3n tracks in the blind test. In my opinion the b3n does not have a transparent bypass, this lack is more evident in front of an amp.
I've noticed that the gt-1b has, unlike the b3n, two selectable output modes, a headphone line and the other amp with and without tweeter, I think this choice can make a difference in the bypass or at least hope.
As far as the best quality of m5 modulation is concerned, they feel much more natural chorus species, the phaser much better in definition and quality, even the much higher octave without the least trace loss.
Click to expand...

Which bypass test are you referencing? The one that I did in this thread? Or a different one?
 
#2,066
Rafbass77 said:
Blind listening test: bypassed Zoom B3n vs cable
Click to expand...

Is this the test from post #15?

There's not much you can say if the performances are not identical and normalised when you can directly compare. Even then the test is a little flawed as it indicates two are direct, two with B3n, which means the four tests are not independent (e.g. if you pick tracks 1 and 2 as B3n you are then going to pick 3 and 4 as direct). A better way to run such a test with trials is not to indicate how many are recorded under a particular set of conditions, and present different participants with different mixes of four choices from a total of eight original sources, with a careful chosen selection algorithm.

Finally, one person getting it right isn't statistically significant. You'd need around 50 to determine it, and perhaps additional selection for those with average hearing to test that, and 50 with exceptional hearing to test that.

Having failed with my original experiment since I was trying to hand align and haven't got round to looking at the (probably Python) relevant audio library to do more work.

Alternatively (assuming using human ears) and option might be sixteen tracks, presented randomly, with no direct comparison available since with recorded bass you do not get to compare signal paths used on record.

Direct, B3n, B3n cross fades to direct, vice versa, and all of the above, just a little louder.

Ditto above, different input track, mixed into a full band recording
 
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#2,067
Rafbass77 said:
Blind listening test: bypassed Zoom B3n vs cable
Click to expand...

-Asdfgh- said:
Is this the test from post #15?
Click to expand...

Nope. As I recall, the thread you're referencing isn't comparing bypass states, but different tones run through different setups with different riffs being played. It's impressive that you were able to determine which was which in that thread, but we're talking about different things here, aren't we? At least that's how I'm reading your comments.

My clips are as apples-for-apples as best as I could concoct, and are earlier in this thread...not a different thread. I've also already posted the signal paths for each of the tracks, so all the answers are out in the open now...still...you can listen to them and tell us what you think.

The description of my recordings starts at post #1870, and continues for a couple of pages from there.

New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects
 
#2,068
jimfist said:
Nope. As I recall, the thread you're referencing isn't comparing bypass states, but different tones run through different setups with different riffs being played. It's impressive that you were able to determine which was which in that thread, but we're talking about different things here, aren't we? At least that's how I'm reading your comments.

My clips are as apples-for-apples as best as I could concoct, and are earlier in this thread...not a different thread. I've also already posted the signal paths for each of the tracks, so all the answers are out in the open now...still...you can listen to them and tell us what you think.

The description of my recordings starts at post #1870, and continues for a couple of pages from there.

New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects
Click to expand...

Ah, I just scanned that thread and assumed that it was about bypassed tones. First post was tracks not controlled for the same riff, loudness, etc., and that makes it hard to really determine much without lots of data and special statistics I don't fully understand.
 
#2,069
jimfist said:
Well, here's all I've had time for to this point...playing warts, farts, and all. Let me know if you can tell what is what from these short clips.
I wanted to post .wav files to avoid compression artifacts, but talkbass didn't allow me to do this, so you'll have to download the raw wave files to audition them.

Here's a dropbox public link:

Invalid Link Removed

riff_01_direct_track_01
riff_01_direct_track_02
riff_02_direct_track_03
riff_02_direct_track_04

of these tracks, only one is the B3n in tuner bypass mode.

riff_01 is pop and slap; riff_02 is played with a pick. FWIW, the tone settings are: both pickups, tone knob for each picke is wide open
Click to expand...
riff_02_direct_track_04 is the b3n in tuner bypass mode, i think, but it is very difficult to choose, the non-excellent b3n bypass, is more noticeable in front of an amplifier than in direct recording, you should do a comparative test with a microphone recording from an amp with and without the b3n in front.
 
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#2,070
Rafbass77 said:
riff_02_direct_track_04 is the b3n in tuner bypass mode, i think, but it is very difficult to choose, the non-excellent b3n bypass, is more noticeable in front of an amplifier than in direct recording, you should do a comparative test with a microphone recording from an amp with and without the b3n in front.
Click to expand...

Well, unfortunately I don't use traditional amps anymore since using digital modeling for amp tone. Maybe someone else can help you with a recording there.

Good luck!
 
#2,072
I'm surprised that the GT-1B isn't getting more discussed here on this forum, considering how neglected the bass side of the guitar playing is with regard to modelling and effects, although I'd imagine that almost everyone who wants the best available bass multi effects pedals have the Zoom options at the moment, but I really can't wait to see the GT-1B vs B3n comparisons.
 
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#2,075
CharlieC said:
The June 2017 Guitar Lab update really provides some great new model additions! In particular, "Low EQ" and the "Mini MkB" are fantastic.

Now with a dedicated HPF, independent IR-based cab sims and all the other goodies, the B3n is such a powerful tool.

Thanks and keep the updates coming, Zoom!
Click to expand...
How are people typically using HPF? Is this a bi-amping thing, a way to clean up unwanted deep lows from FX, to limit the lows going to less-capable cabinets (or unforgiving spaces), or something else?
 
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