What are "cabinet impulses" and why are they better than what the B3/B1on/MS60b use?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects
- Thread starter CharlieC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- b3n multi-effects zoom
Yes, these are 3 slots, unless you use the MarkBass simulation amp, other amps use 2 slots and cab sim uses 1 slot.
Btw: Something similar happens with the parametric eq, on ms60b you have 3 hands parametric EQ in one slot, while in the b3n each band needs one slot...
Hmmm... I hope I can make it work for me. I might make a fair bit of use of the MarkBass! Saying that, it's seven effects versus five on the B1on, so that works out pretty even (4 left over), even with an amp and cab emulation in play. The B1on will become a backup for the B3n, in the same way as the B2 backs up the B9. Hopefully the B3n will work out live (they B9 is great in that respect - I should have got two when I had the chance). The more recent series sounds a bit better and is more flexible, though.
Because the B3n uses more processor power to achieve the better amp, cab models. so what took only one slot of processor power on the earlier units may take one, two or, three slots of processor power but, will sound more 'alive' or responsive... I think :/
Plus I think, on the B1on which I have, some effects have one, two or, three pages to edit that effect. Depending on the effect on the B3n these pages may take up slots now not just a page or something like that, I don't know, I don't have one. I don't even know what I am committing on this, just to muddy up the waters and make me think I am part of something, let me just crawl back under my rock...
I bought an MS-60B.. I just hope it gets here before weekend, then I could A/B it against my current board in rehearsal. 
You can get really good results with the ms60b specially if you use tonelib to edit it.I bought an MS-60B.. I just hope it gets here before weekend, then I could A/B it against my current board in rehearsal.
Cabinet Impulses Response are special files obtained by sampling the response of a cabinet. They are supposed to be much closer to the real thing than programmed emulations. But it all depend of how they have been made and how much power is dedicated to their use. They give back a lot of parameters of the sound of a cabinet, but are still linear, so they won't mimic all cab livelyness, like distortion for example.
You can read a very interesting interview of Mike Grabinski from Red Wirez Impulse Responses about it here (click).
I'm hoping as much - it would mean my gigging gear would be a bass, a tuner (Korg pitchblack) and the MS-60B. And the tuner just because it's proven to be visible enough for my bat eyes in live situations. Which means a road case would be replaced with a smaller board, or no board at all (stuff everything in the bass case).
Now if you will excuse me, I will take myself to the MS-60B patch topic to scout some ideas for replacing a Tone Hammer + Distortion pedal signal chain
This caveat alone has put me off getting the B3n. For some reason, zoom does appear to implement limited pedal chains on their products.
Yes, this is how I use my MS60b. I have a few basic patches and scroll through as I need them. I find it useful to have a blank patch between each one so I can turn on and then off a patch during a song ie A (blank) > B (phaser) > C (blank) > D (chorus) > E blank. However, this does mean I can only do this once in a song. If I need to turn an effect on and off more than once in a song I need to physically crouch down and switch the unit to "stompbox mode" and then remember to exit this mode once the song has finished.
Like I say, it's not exactly ideal if you want to use it as a standalone mini pedalboard.
Yeah many if not all use 3 slots.
Still leaves 4 effects...
Don't use the Sims myself
Still way easier than the 60...
Much better sounding than the b3
you guys are killin' me...
I've been pedal GAS free ever since I got my B3n about a year and a half ago... I hadn't even touched my B1Xon or the big old GT-10B because of the B3n. More so with the release of B3n f/w ver. 2.0 which completely cured my GAS of GT-1B. But now you guys are making me thinking of MS-60B again, which actually had been forgotten ever since the B1Xon won the comparison, long before B3n came to surface.
I've been pedal GAS free ever since I got my B3n about a year and a half ago... I hadn't even touched my B1Xon or the big old GT-10B because of the B3n. More so with the release of B3n f/w ver. 2.0 which completely cured my GAS of GT-1B. But now you guys are making me thinking of MS-60B again, which actually had been forgotten ever since the B1Xon won the comparison, long before B3n came to surface.
A cabinet impulse is often created by using a wide spectrum of sound, or a frequency sweep. A bit like multisampling a piano, something close would be a series of impulses of the cabinet (or amp, for that matter) at various input levels to capture more detail. But even then, you are not necessarily capturing what would happen with a real signal by using a frequency sweep as you are assuming linearity, that is the response from sound input A is A', from B is B', and the sound from (A+B) is (A'+B'). In reality it is going to be some function f(A,B) which is A'+B'+some non-linear bit. There are ways you could model it by sampling the performance of a real-world system, which the Kemper must do, but I remember 20 years ago with an musician and colleague doing AI we did speculate that we could use at neural network to do it, with non-linearities, just not in real time back then, and maybe not now. You can use other techniques to fit a function, though, but it would be pretty complex. It's an interesting thing to think about anf how I might solve it
I think this is a miscommunication. All of the effects in every slot are switchable, but at ANY ONE TIME only three are assigned to the switches. If you scroll using the other three buttons everything is switchable.
That said I organize mine so that anything I might want to switch quickly in a group of three. I haven’t had an issue with this. Who needs to turn on/off more than 3 effects in one song? Maybe I’m old but not me.
Not at all, I fully understood your description. I just find it limiting that If I need to switch more than one effect in and out during a song they essentially need to be next to each other in the signal path (or next but one). I'd prefer if the effect on/off stomp buttons were user assignable to any effect in the signal chain.
yes that would be nice - but it would make the whole UI a lot more complex - rather than it being a simple left to right with not all effects visible you would need to have a “set up” stage and a separate “playing” stage
It would be either really hard to navigate and/or need a lot more in terms of controls and screen space. For what it is the B3n is amazing, I think what you want is a Helix
Yes, I think it would need an additional screen similar to the larger G5n to make this functionality viable.
I think you're absolutely right. I've been trying to convince myself for months that I don't need a Helix due to GAS tokens, but it the first device that does everything I've been clamouring after for years in one box.
Sounds like you know what you want then! For me, I’m still getting my head around going into any kinda pedal - the next stage would be to sell the amp and pick up a good FRFR speaker and use the B3n into that... at that point I don’t do enough gigs to justify the cost... if I did more maybe...
There’s an interesting thread on the UK equivalent of talkbass - one established player has sold his big rig, his little rig and his guitar amps and replaced them with a Helix into a single RCF 475 - ild love to do that!
