New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

[jimfist]

A couple of things regarding the B3n Tuner/Bypass vs. true bypass discussion:

- I discovered that Global Volume level governs everything, including the Tuner Bypass. I hooked up to an analog splitter and monitored a true bypass signal path vs. the Tuner/Bypass thru the B3n and found that the levels were not matched. Once I was able to closely match the two volume levels with the Global Volume, I couldn't really tell which sound was which.

- Further, I recorded a passage in Audacity, simultaneously recording the true bypass and the B3n bypass and listened to the results. Again, they were very, very close, to the point where either would suffice. I also did a FFT analysis on each of the recorded tracks for comparison, and other than a slight dip of a couple dB in the 15hz-30hz range, the signals graphically were essentially identical. IOW, my "ear" testing was supported by my findings in doing limited visual analysis of the tones produced.
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Now, all that said, I'm not saying that other setups, gear, patch configurations won't result in an obvious difference in tone between the B3n tuner/bypass and a true bypass signal. But rather, I'm supposing that there are different reasons why some rigs my suffer from tone suck, while other setups (like mine) apparently do not. I'm also not ruling out the B3n directly as the culprit.

But when the idea is put forth that "under any and all circumstances", the B3n in tuner/bypass will necessarily result in OBVIOUS HUGE tone suck, I have great difficulty taking this assertion at face value when my own findings run to the contrary. That either means I can't hear (I'm pretty sure I can), or I'm doing something wrong (which begs the question: how can I be doing something "wrong", when the result is that my true bypass tone and B3n bypass tone are virtually identical?). Or more likely, YMMV, depending on other technical details.

The notion that this tone suck would be obvious to a "professional" carries with it the assumption that those who aren't "professional" are incapable of hearing or wrapping their heads around the "tone suck" issue. Well, what if you were a full-time professional (as I've been, having made my living as a working performer, live mixer, and recording mixer) who has decided to pursue a different career (as I've done). Does that mean that a magic wand has been waved and I've lost any ability to be able to know what I'm hearing or know what I'm talking about? Evidently, that answer might be "yes" depending on who you talk to. Go figure.

 

[bdowd]

This discussion is timely for me. I felt there was tonesuck from the B3, could have been my overall setup, gain staging within and without the B3, blah blah blah, but I'm thinking of giving the B3n a try. I have a really nice simple set up going now with an Ampeg v4b tube head, looking for effects only, bit of tone shaping, don't want tonesuck! Thanks for your investigations fellers.

 

[SirMjac28]

Anybody know how to assign parameters to the expression pedal?

 

[Stu_Bass]

Anybody know how to assign parameters to the expression pedal?

There are a pre-defined set of parameters. Kinda sux but....

 

[SirMjac28]

There are a pre-defined set of parameters. Kinda sux but....

I have it plugged in but but it doesn't do anything? I have it enabled in the settings.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

One element of tone suck could be input impedance. Effects units seem to sometimes have lower input impedance than amps. I'm not sure what the B3n's impedance is.

 

[SirMjac28]

Just figured it out you have to add the pedal to the effects chain

 

[Stu_Bass]

One element of tone suck could be input impedance. Effects units seem to sometimes have lower input impedance than amps. I'm not sure what the B3n's impedance is.

INPUTS:
Standard monaural phone jack
Rated input level: -20 dBu*
Input impedance (line): 470 kΩ

 

[andreas_flf]

Anybody know how to assign parameters to the expression pedal?

Sorry, I do not well understand your question. The pedal itself has no parameters.

To use an expression pedal you need to do two things:

1) Activate the use of the expression pedal. Note, by default the B3n assumes you have no expression pedal. See p. 41 of the B3n manual for details how to accomplish that. This needs to be done only once (and after each factory reset).

2) Add in a patch the pedal by using a slot for the pedal. The pedal works like any other effect unit. There are several pedal effects to choose from: Volume (PDL Vol), wah (BassWah), pitch bend (BaPDLPit, BaPDLMnP), resonance (PDL Reso).

The actual parameters of the pedal effect are set the same way as any other parameter of an effect unit is set: using the knobs. The respective screen shows you what you can do and adjusts the usual way as you turn the knobs.

Enjoy!

 

[SirMjac28]

Sorry, I do not well understand your question. The pedal itself has no parameters.

To use an expression pedal you need to do two things:

1) Activate the use of the expression pedal. Note, by default the B3n assumes you have no expression pedal. See p. 41 of the B3n manual for details how to accomplish that. This needs to be done only once (and after each factory reset).

2) Add in a patch the pedal by using a slot for the pedal. The pedal works like any other effect unit. There are several pedal effects to choose from: Volume (PDL Vol), wah (BassWah), pitch bend (BaPDLPit, BaPDLMnP), resonance (PDL Reso).

The actual parameters of the pedal effect are set the same way as any other parameter of an effect unit is set: using the knobs. The respective screen shows you what you can do and adjusts the usual way as you turn the knobs.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the reply you answered that perfectly.

 

[Jantelagen]

"But when the idea is put forth that "under any and all circumstances", the B3n in tuner/bypass will necessarily result in OBVIOUS HUGE tone suck, I have great difficulty taking this assertion at face value when my own findings run to the contrary."

I don't see where anyone said "OBIVIOUS HUGE" tone suck or how that's inferred. I said obvious difference but not huge, same as another poster only said obvious. Still a decisive difference nonetheless. I didn't see anyone disagree with or say anyone's ears were wrong either. Just differing opinions/ideas to consider with different applications of the unit based on the user. Which, might help someone weighing pros and cons about getting the unit and/or what to expect

 

[Rafbass77]

For my ears the b3n sucks lightly, I noticed a slight loss of frequency both in the tuning mode and with a patch without effects, compared to the bass directly to the amplifier it feels a little different, less defined. Frequency loss is less apparent compared to the b3, much less than the b1on. Analog-to-digital converters have been improved, but they can still do a lot. Certainly, for the sale price you can not expect much more. If you want a digital multi-effect that does not suck, line6 m9 is for you, one of the few true bypass ... a bit dated, mostly for guitar, less functionality and double the b3n price.
The b3n is a great product for the price, I just hope it will not be abandoned by the developers as it happened for the b3 .. The last and only update dates back to february .. They started badly ..

 

[SirMjac28]

I have mine in a loop so that bypasses any tone suck issues. I have to say I really love the distortions.

 

[jimfist]

"But when the idea is put forth that "under any and all circumstances", the B3n in tuner/bypass will necessarily result in OBVIOUS HUGE tone suck, I have great difficulty taking this assertion at face value when my own findings run to the contrary."

I don't see where anyone said "OBIVIOUS HUGE" tone suck or how that's inferred. I said obvious difference but not huge, same as another poster only said obvious. Still a decisive difference nonetheless. I didn't see anyone disagree with or say anyone's ears were wrong either. Just differing opinions/ideas to consider with different applications of the unit based on the user. Which, might help someone weighing pros and cons about getting the unit and/or what to expect

Point taken, and I pretty much agree with you regarding the broader points in considering the B3n. Do you have any idea why I don't appear to be experiencing the same tone suck issues as you and others? I'm using an active bass into the B3n into a powered PA cabinet.

 

[BassikLee]

For me, it was never a matter of tone suck. I never bothered to check what it was doing. I assembled that rig, hooked it up, set about to get sounds that worked, and determined that it works for what I need. It does.

 

[DJ Bebop]

For me, it was never a matter of tone suck. I never bothered to check what it was doing. I assembled that rig, hooked it up, set about to get sounds that worked, and determined that it works for what I need. It does.

I am this way. If I get a thumpy bumby sound that folks are digging and I am digging, who cares. I know this is a bout the B3n but I have the B1on right now, same thing though. Can I tell a difference with it plugged in vs. not? Yes I can. I can tell the difference between one instrument cable over another sometimes. Do I care? No. I still use stuff that can make my bass sound difference than it does out of the box or, on it's own. Sometimes, I can get it to sound better in the mix live than on it's own with these little boxes. Good times

 

[Jantelagen]

Point taken, and I pretty much agree with you regarding the broader points in considering the B3n. Do you have any idea why I don't appear to be experiencing the same tone suck issues as you and others? I'm using an active bass into the B3n into a powered PA cabinet.

Honestly I'm not sure man, to my ears its like @smeet explained, it seemed to have "less attack, less highs, and less lows.".

@smeet is doing that b3n bypass test so it should be more helpful than my subjective discussions. btw, I just replied to be clear that I *wasn't bashing the b3n but had a legitimate issue. I waited on the b3n and hoped it would replace some pedals but it didn't work out for me in that application. My gf's little bro has a b3n also, he mentioned that if using the amp/cab sims its not an issue

 

[bdowd]

Question for the folks running the b3n in an effects loops/blender setup, within the b3n are you running the blends mostly completely wet and controlling the amount of effected sound on your blender (if it has a blend knob)? Ive had a b3 and now a ms60b, and am now playing with mixing from my basswitch serial loop. I have a b3n arriving friday, excited to play around more.

 

[VonSledgehammer]

I don't use an effects loop, but if I did I would blend on the B3n - you'll want a different blend for each patch, so dial it in and save the patch. Much better than winging for each I think.

 

[smeet]

Lest you think I'm just being a nit picky techy numbers nerd, I assure you that for me, this is all about the sound and how affects me viscerally. With my current basses, amp, and speaker, I get a wonderfully satisfying sound. Each note feels good to play. I've spent many years getting the technique and equipment that gets me this sound.

Since I don't use a lot of drive, if a pedal diminishes my clean sound, it makes playing a lot less fun. And yeah, it makes it worse (not just different) to reduce the force of the attack, muddy up the overall tone, and thin out the low end. Theoretically you could compensate with eq for the frequency rolloff, but in real life, especially with inexpensive digital eq, it doesn't work that way.

So I'm planning on doing the recordings partially as a sanity check for myself, and also so you all have a chance to listen and respond. Do I hear something you don't? Or does my pedal sound different than yours? Or do you hear it and don't really care? Or, maybe you have a suggestion for avoiding the tone suck I hear?

For me, the tone and envelope of my sound, and my ability to control it with my technique, is really important to how much I enjoy playing. Others will of course have different priorities.