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New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

The B1on should be a nice choice for what you want to do with it. You can in fact gig with it, I've done my church gig with one a few times. It packs a lot of features into a sturdy plastic housing at a toy-like price. It's performance is not toy-like at all. Sound wise it is a pretty good representation of what is now Zoom's previous generation of multi-effects pedals. There are both similarities and differences between its user interface and the B3n user interface. As long as you don't expect too much in the way of the one teaching you how to operate the other I doubt you will regret getting one.

Now that I have a B3n and now that my MS60B has received its long awaited and massive firmware update I am thinking of selling my B1on. I got the B1on to do some things the MS60B could not do but now those two cover everything the B1on can do between them so I don't need it any more. I am certainly not disappointed in it in any way.
 
Now that I have a B3n and now that my MS60B has received its long awaited and massive firmware update I am thinking of selling my B1on. I got the B1on to do some things the MS60B could not do but now those two cover everything the B1on can do between them so I don't need it any more. I am certainly not disappointed in it in any way.

Given that they are US$50 new, is it even worth selling?
 
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Ive just got a B3n to replace my Darkglass VMT and TC Corona. I had a B3 but didnt really get on with it.
Anyway i think this new version is much better, the tones feel a bit more substantial.

One thing i cant figure out is the USB side. Ok, i know i cant really do anything with it but it doesnt seem to work. By that i mean when its plugged in to my PC nothing happens. I cant get the FW update screen on (i know there isnt an update), it doesn't seem to be seen by Guitar lab. Is this how things are with it at the moment or is this a dud?

EDIT: OOps, user error. I didnt realise it had to be plugged in to the mains as well. All sorted.
 
Well, here's all I've had time for to this point...playing warts, farts, and all. Let me know if you can tell what is what from these short clips.
I wanted to post .wav files to avoid compression artifacts, but talkbass didn't allow me to do this, so you'll have to download the raw wave files to audition them.

Here's a dropbox public link:

Invalid Link Removed

riff_01_direct_track_01
riff_01_direct_track_02
riff_02_direct_track_03
riff_02_direct_track_04

of these tracks, only one is the B3n in tuner bypass mode.

riff_01 is pop and slap; riff_02 is played with a pick. FWIW, the tone settings are: both pickups, tone knob for each picke is wide open

I listend through several output devices including my best studio headphones, but sorry I cannot tell which of the four went through the B3n, no idea.

Thanks for the test.
 
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OK folks, I ran my bypass tests with:
Bass into a single channel on the DL1608
Aux channel5 into B3n into computer interface right
Aux channel6 into a bypass looper into computer interface left

I had the looper in the mix so that I could have identical cables for both signal paths.
I then adjusted levels at the computer interface until the levels looked identical.

Well, it seemed to work quite well. I recorded slap and fingerstyle. I never got to pick playing because listening back on headphones or my monitors, the differences were minimal to point of being insignificant. I could not have picked them out in a blind test. Wow, OK.

I then took the cables that went into the computer interface, and plugged one at a time into my amp, listening through the Big Twin II (a VERY accurate and flat response speaker). I had two identical cables in my hand, so I flipped them around and randomly plugged one and then the other in. Interestingly I could hear a difference in the "body" of the low end through the amp, and I could readily distinguish one from the other as I shuffled the cord around and plugged it in. But the difference was very subtle, and this is with me sitting directly in front of the most accurate and revealing bass speaker I've ever heard.

So, I'm not going to put up samples, because I don't think anybody would reliably hear differences (I listened on my HR824 monitors as well as decent Audio-Technica headphones and couldn't hear differences). There is of course a lag in the signal, I didn't measure how much. It's not a lot, but it's enough to cause nasty phase issues if you try and use an external blend, so I definitely wouldn't do that. The two signals played back together had that out-of-phase hollowness, but not enough so that I could hear it as a delay or slapback. That delay could perhaps account for the perception of the attack being less immediate, since the player can feel that delay although the listener cannot.

So in a clinical situation (bypassing with identical cables etc., I'm satisfied that there is not enough tone suck to be audible. What worries me a bit is that I really did hear differences when swapping cables so I wonder if the real-world results might be more audible. But just a bit.

I have to say, I'm happy to be kind-of-proved wrong, in that it appears that given the right cable and impedence situation, the tone suck is minimal (or at least it's less than the difference between brands of cables).

So I'm going to try to take this bad boy out on my next gig. On my big-boy pedalboard, the main always-on effects are a B7K Ultra and a Origin FX Compact Bass compressor. From my listening, the B7K simulation in the B3n gets the essential character of the real thing very nicely. It would be great if the blend and drive is accurate also, tomorrow I'll test that out. The compressor situation however... The Origin CB is crazy good, and I can compress my signal hard to even out the playing while also making it more aggressive and attack-y, but it still sounds almost completely unprocessed. I doubt I'll find something like that in the B3n, but a boy can dream...

TL;DR - B3n is good. Choose your cables and impedence match carefully.

Thanks for the test and the report and I like very much your, may I say "brave honesty"?
 
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@smeet, most real-time digital effects these days have a latency at around 2 msec or less. I found the B3n to be somewhere around 1.2msec in tuner bypass mode. As you noted, this slight delay will really mess with your tone if you are mixing it with a dry, direct signal (depending on the nature of the B3n effect(s) being used - "dry" tone-shapers will be more apparent than echo/reverb).

Interesting to read about your discoveries, and I hope that you have good luck on the gig with your B3n.

This 1.2 ms latency of the B3n is quite important to remember and means: Never put the B3n in an amp's effect loop where you mix the effect signal with the direct dry signal. Best use the B3n as a preamp!!

Should you prefer to use the B3n in the amp's effect loop then watch out for this and make shure the effect loop is in serial mode, not parallel mode where it mixes the dry with the effcts signal. If your amp does not offer serial mode of the effects loop at all, then use the B3n only as preamp or you risk to get quite bad, somewhat muddy sound.
 
So, with the firmware update for the MS60B (finally!) that just rolled, I have gained an amp sim that I longed for, and a new compressor that has replaced my go to comp. I am now running the 60b at the front of my chain with; ZNR>Rack Comp>Flip Top>AcBsPre. This allows me to use the N as an FX board, and cab sim. Don't know if it will stay this way, but I'm diggin' it for now.

I like the Flip-Top also very much. But why the AcBsPre at the end? I always use that before an amp sim.
 
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I will probably need to redo this test as I realised that I may have used a source that wasn't mono, and I need to also repeat with different mixer inputs, but here goes.

I took a signal out of the standard audio out of my pc, and split it to two mono 6.35mm connections, one to a b1on on bypass, then to a zoom r16, the other straight to the mixer. The first caveat is that this will be low impedance to the b1on.

I recorded each signal, then normalised, adjusted for latency as best I could (an impressive 1.3ms) and reversed the phase of one of them, rendered the result to mono and put it through a spectrum analyser.

If the signals had been identical and I'd got the latency and the stereo input issue entirely sorted I'd expect silence, whereas there is still up to -34dB of signal based on a FFT analysis. The audio did have drums, though, which may have been in stereo. The bass is still audible but barely.

Ill fix up the methodology and repeat but the next two weeks are very hectic.

Split? Should you do this with a passive y-cable, the signals are not identical unless your two devices (i.e. b1on and the mixer) have exactly the same input impedance and you use throughout cables of the same type. Since the b1on - r16 signal chains needs another cable to the mixer, I guess this needs to be considered as well by having a total cable length in that signal chain comparable to the directly connecting cable. Just to be sure no artefact from the setup is introduced, isn't it?

And of course all signals need to be mono.

Good luck with the test.

We are soon going to have so many A/B tests with and without the B3n, I hope this really puts all concerns at rest.
 
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Just been going the through some of the FX and amazed to see Zoom have added a boost feature to the BBDI effect. I spent a while setting a generic patch with BBDI on all the time and hidden, and used the BK7 FX to add a bit of boost when needed. Could have just done this with the BDDI sim lol.
As with my old B3 the one thing that eludes me is the fact that there are so many volume/legal knobs and settings. I understand them but i feel it over complaicates things a bit when trying to get the best S/N ratio or balance with the band.

Still, a good upgrade (other than lack of USB power) over the B3. Hope i stick with this one.
 
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Well, here's all I've had time for to this point...playing warts, farts, and all. Let me know if you can tell what is what from these short clips.
I wanted to post .wav files to avoid compression artifacts, but talkbass didn't allow me to do this, so you'll have to download the raw wave files to audition them.

Here's a dropbox public link:

Invalid Link Removed

riff_01_direct_track_01
riff_01_direct_track_02
riff_02_direct_track_03
riff_02_direct_track_04

of these tracks, only one is the B3n in tuner bypass mode.

riff_01 is pop and slap; riff_02 is played with a pick. FWIW, the tone settings are: both pickups, tone knob for each picke is wide open

It's been a few weeks since I posted this, and though nobody's really on the edge of their seat to know the results, I figured it's time that I let the forum know what is what:

riff_01_direct_track_01 is the Wal bass XLR direct out to DAW
riff_01_direct_track_02 is the Wal 1/4" direct out to DAW
riff_02_direct_track_03 is once again, the XLR direct out to DAW
riff_02_direct_track_04 is the bass 1/4" out to the B3n, 1/4" out to DAW

[Note that tracks 01 and 02 are IMO virtually identical, supported by DAW waveform inspection. I expected there to be a noteworthy difference. None found. Of course, the XLR out of the Wal is not to be diminished, especially for pro interfacing and when longer cable runs may be desired. It's great to NOT have to add a direct box interface at these times.]

Considering that track 03 represents the absolute BEST case for a DI feed (via the Wal XLR output), and track 04 represents the most likely real world connection scenario possible thru the B3n, it would be reasonable to think there would be very obvious differences between the two tones. To my less-than-perfect ears, I can't tell the difference, and only under the scrutiny or DAW waveform analysis could I see any difference in wave shape.

Remember, the key to using Tuner/Bypass mode is to make sure that the Global output level matches that of your bass were it NOT going through the B3n (true bypass). If the B3n global level in Tuner/Bypass varies too far from the true bypass level, it may trick you into thinking that there is a lot of coloration at the hands of the B3n. Too low a level and you may think the B3n is dull and muted, or sucking tone. Too much level and it may start to overdrive the next component in such a way as to mildly clip the signal, which may also result in noticeable hi/low tone coloration.
 
I have a POD XT Live I was using years ago for guitar. I had purchased the bass pack for it.

Am I better off spending $200 on a B3n?

I was going to put together a pedal board for bass and I can easily spend over 1K doing so and I'd prefer not to if possible.

My thought was to purchase:
Markbass Compressore
Markbass Bass Synth
Tech21 VT programmable


I like the Synth patch I made in the XT Live, but on regular no effects, my bass sounds sterile. Compared to
Gecko 5 - 35 scale with EMG DC and CS 40's and BQC at 18v to......... late 90's ART Tube Comp Levelar to.........
mixing console X32.

I wear In-Ear Monitors.

Although I could use A-B box to navigate around the XT live when I don't need a synth sound. But then the XT Live is lots to carry around for a synth sound.....

Damn.... I'm driving myself nuts over all of this.

Can I get Synth sounds from the B3n?

Thoughts?
 
Adjusting the b3n global, wouldn't that be true "DSP" bypass?

Yes. I don't think I ever indicated that it was anything other than a "processed" bypass. That's sort of what kicked-off the whole discussion. I can't comment on what others who own the B3n are doing with it, and whether they're truly experiencing tuner/bypass tone differences or not, and if so, why that would be.
 
Hey guys, back in this thread again. Went on vacation and got busy with life and such. I said I'd post a pic of my completed pedalboard with the B3n on it, here you go.

Pedalboard.jpg


This is my first attempt at a full pedalboard that allows me to use my Chapman Stick and guitar at the same time. I swap the Stick melody signal and guitar signals with the switch on the right, which go into the G3xn. The buffer/splitter box is a bass/guitar/melody signal summer with a third output into my Polytune. THe HOF reverb provides extra "whole board" reverb, mostly used for the Beat Buddy just to add a little extra space to the drum beats.

If I had a bigger practice space, I'd offload the mixer onto a desk or something. But for now, I'm stuck in a little room. Furthermore, utilizing a Stick on its own typically requires some extra facilities in terms of signal routing in order to properly utilize effects for either side. A mixer tends to be the best and most efficient way to do it.

Both signals (minus the Beat Buddy) go into the looper, so I can lay down a Stick backing track, then play guitar over top of it, complete with a beat.

My lame little attempt at being a one man band. :)
 
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