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NHL PLayoffs 2009

Well, I guess it was our turn not to show up like it was for Detroit in game four. We got beat up early, and lost it. I don't think Detroit did anything spectacular tonight. I realize they had Datsyuk back. I sure don't give Osgood the star of the game, he didn't do anything all night. Give them all to the Detroit defense.

The Wings penalty kill actually showed up for once. Huge lift from the return of Datsyuk. They actually played like they meant it. Doc Emerick made a comment about it being a "statement game" and I agree. They've done it in some big games all season.

Now I'm really pissed about the loss, so I'll try to be as nice about this as possible. All you people out there who think the NHL is conspiring to give Crosby a Cup need to shut it. All of you who jumped all over him for the dramatic fall to the ice in game four after the slash to his calf....shut it as well.
Crosby got Zetterberg with the same slash Crosby received in game four. Zetterberg falls, gets up smiling, and Crosby is sent to the sin bin for two minutes. So knock it off with that BS about Crosby being handed a trophy.

I don't blame you. I know Bettman looked furious in the 3rd when they showed the shot of him. As far as the slash - I saw Zetterberg smiling as he got up immediately after the play. I also saw him get up right away instead of writhing on the ice for several seconds. Also no head toss with the facial expression of agony that Crosby had. My biggest beef with Crosby's behavior after his reception of the slash was because he gave Maltby a two hander after an earlier game and bragged about it to the media. I don't recall Zetterberg bragging about giving a slash previously. That said, Crosby is still a @#$% good player.

I got some more to say, but I am too pissed to go on any longer. I just wanted to show up and make a few comments so no one accused me of being some pussy who only posts when my team wins.

Way to put the hammer down tonight Detroit. Impressive win.

-Mike

First of all I think you know I'd never pull that on you. I know you're better than that. :)

To a point. But the Detroit Power play and Penalty kill looks much sharper with a healthy Pavel Datsyuk. Think about it, Detroit played the last two conference finals games without Lidstrom and Datsyuk. Detroit was still even with Pittsburgh even without Datsyuk. Now how well do the Pens do without Crosby or Malkin for four games? I said earlier that Detroit healthy would win in six, I'll stand by it.

Sounds like my prediction as well. It's also a very valid point about their depth. I'd love to get my hands on Neil Smith's data mine (check the hockey news for what I'm talking about, apparently hes with a company that does way too much analysis for NHL coaches and GM's, it's a decent article) and check a few things, though I have no idea of how to even process the data. Bear with me for a moment here, and I'd like to see your thoughts on this as well, Mike. Take Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Crosby, and Malkin. Take the stats smorgasbord Neil Smith's company has. When you factor in 2 way play, offensive awareness, defensive awareness, speed, shot accuracy, hockey instincts, etc (yes I'm using the old NHL 94 stats for lack of a better term), based upon all the data Smith's company has, a couple things I'd like to see.

First, individually, who's the biggest overall weapon (offensively and defensively) - my gut pick is Zetterberg because of his defensive edge, but it's a hard call.

Second, individually, who's the biggest offensive weapon individually - my gut pick is Malkin since he goes to the net harder more often

Third - who's the best setup guy - this is tough, since if you consider assists as the only marker, the playmaker is at the mercy of his teammates actually burying it as well as the goalie making a huge save or a d-man making a killer play to deflect the shot. I'm asking it in the context of delivering the puck to give the shooter the opportunity. Doesn't matter if they connect, only if they give the shooter the opportunity. I'm not sure if I'm expressing it well - think of how many times you've seen an amazing pass to set up a chance that didn't go. Considering those chances as well as the assists for those that connect. I haven't seen as much of the Pens games, but my gut feels it's going to be pretty darn close between Crosby and Datsyuk.

Finally, and this is the hardest to quantify (as if the third wasn't). Who has the greatest "synergizing effect" on their linemates. Who is able to elevate their linemate's play to another level. Think of what Mario Lemieux did for Rob Brown. There's been a lot of talk on the Wings side about Hank and Pavs being the "Eurotwins" and being so much better together (as in Eurotwin powers - activate). What I'm getting at here, is does Datsyuk give Zetterberg more of a boost than vice versa, and what do they do respectively for their linemates when separated. Same for Crosby and Malkin. Considering everything, offense, defense, intangibles. I have no idea how to even try to break this one down.

While the Pens beat themselves, Detroit DID that to them. The Pens that were taking stupid Penalties weren't just Kontz, it was Malkin and Crosby, the guys who are suppose to be leaders. They still have a long way to go in the maturity department.:rollno:

Like Mike said, both Malkin and Crosby are young, but when you've got a C or an A on the jersey, you have an obligation to your team to step up. Kunitz was just playing like an ex-Duck.

This was the first game in the series were Detroit looked like Detroit. I do think, that the home ice, the rest after the four games in five nights to start, and the return of Datsyuk which made the team quantitatively deeper made a huge difference. I suspect with an extra day of rest going in to Pittsburgh, the Wings might be healthier yet. I don't know if Datsyuk was a 100%, but he sure played a dominating game, I'm not sure their is a better passer in the game. And his defensive presence is invaluable. the other thing is he is very underrated for his physical play, he is not afraid to throw his body around for some nice hits along the boards. And after the first half of the first, Detroit won all the battles on the boards tonight.

The return of Pavs was huge, as was getting the home ice change. The Pens actually won the faceoff battle in this game if I read the stats blurb on the NHL network correctly. Game 6 in Pittsburgh Bylsma has the last change. That's played a bigger role in this series than most people are giving credit for. While I anticipate seeing the Wings win game 6 tomorrow night, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pens came out hard and popped a couple early to force a game 7. In either case, PLEASE let the refs not make any weak calls against either team for this game (or game 7 if necessary).

As far as the future, Detroit is suppose to have a hot shot Swedish goalie in the Minors. I'm sure XYM knows his name. The real kink in the future is a 39 year old Lidstrom. Other then that this is a team entering it's prime with a lot of depth, if they resign Hossa to the rumored deal, I expect them to be a cup contender (healthy) for at least two more years. And a playoff force for five or six. The other thing, they need to do is keep Babcock, I don't believe there's a better coach in the game, not that he's talking about leaving.

Ask and you shall recieve :) That's Daniel Larsson, currently in Grand Rapids. He's 3rd on the goalie depth chart among "prospects" I anticipate Jimmy Howard coming up to play backup next year, but Larsson has been good in the OHL backing up Howard. They've also got a young guy named Thomas McCollum who played for Brampton in the OHL who's been looking pretty good (and is actually ahead of Larsson on the prospects chart - as of the 2008-2009 mid-season report). I'll talk the cap stuff more after the playoffs, since this post is already gargantuan.

All I know is it's not over yet. I like the fact that Detroit played the entire game and Ozzie got a shut out. He's come close several times in this year's playoffs but this is only his second shutout. I didn't see the first 2 periods but it seems that they played much better in their own zone and I also noticed that their passes were sharper and their decision making was better when they had the puck.

If this continues into the next game then I'm going to go ahead and call it in 6 since no team in the league can beat a Detroit team firing on all cylinders. Datsyuk made more of an impact than I thought he would, by seeing the replays of the passes he was making on the power plays and his on ice awareness hasn't skipped a beat.

I bolded the most important thing in your post. It would be VERY easy for Detroit to get overconfident after game 5 (to be honest, I think the Pens came into game 5 a bit overconfident after the soundly beat the Wings in game 4). While I agree that on paper, nobody should be able to beat a healthy Wings team firing on all cylinders, the game isn't played on paper. Game 6 is going to be a barnburner, imho.

Let's hope it turns out to be a display of hockey excellence decided by they player's skill. Not bad reffing, not cheap shots, not bad ice. Let it be one for the ages. If the Wings win cup number 12, I'll be partying hard. If the Pens force game 7, then let game 7 be one for the ages regardless of the winner (though I've got to be pulling for the Wings personally ;) ). As hockey fans, that's what we ALL should want.
 
Well, I guess it was our turn not to show up like it was for Detroit in game four. We got beat up early, and lost it. I don't think Detroit did anything spectacular tonight. I realize they had Datsyuk back. I sure don't give Osgood the star of the game, he didn't do anything all night. Give them all to the Detroit defense.

Now I'm really pissed about the loss, so I'll try to be as nice about this as possible. All you people out there who think the NHL is conspiring to give Crosby a Cup need to shut it. All of you who jumped all over him for the dramatic fall to the ice in game four after the slash to his calf....shut it as well.

Crosby got Zetterberg with the same slash Crosby received in game four. Zetterberg falls, gets up smiling, and Crosby is sent to the sin bin for two minutes. So knock it off with that BS about Crosby being handed a trophy.

I got some more to say, but I am too pissed to go on any longer. I just wanted to show up and make a few comments so no one accused me of being some pussy who only posts when my team wins.

Way to put the hammer down tonight Detroit. Impressive win.

-Mike

Pittsburgh just have these games some times. Detroit did nothing different, it was simply one of those turn around games where everything goes right for one and nothing goes right for the other, much like what Pitts did to Washington in game 7.

As far as the penalties etc, I'm all for it. Detroit are back-handed in the way they dole out punishment and they have some of the most experienced guys in the league at doing that. For as many times as Zetterberg runs his stick over Crosbys neck and head he deserves a much harder slash than he got, which was diving anyway. Zetterberg deserved an un-sportmanslike for that.

Anyway, should be a good game 6, I hope it goes to 7, I'd like to see the Cup go to Pittsburgh, Detroit have creepy red beards and eye brows and look weird.
 
Pittsburgh just have these games some times. Detroit did nothing different, it was simply one of those turn around games where everything goes right for one and nothing goes right for the other, much like what Pitts did to Washington in game 7.

Fair analysis, though I think the Wings were more mentally engaged than previously, I agree that some game nothing goes right for a team.

For as many times as Zetterberg runs his stick over Crosbys neck and head he deserves a much harder slash than he got,

Wow, just wow. :rollno:

Anyway, should be a good game 6, I hope it goes to 7, I'd like to see the Cup go to Pittsburgh, Detroit have creepy red beards and eye brows and look weird.


I had to chuckle at this. Maybe it's just the Chuck Norris playoff beard fan club. In any case, if you want wierd, just remember Toews' Wolverine playoff beard.
 
..., they're all getting some and giving some, a lot of nasty stuff is happening behind the play... it's the finals and it's good hockey.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's just like this in the NFL. Veteran players know when to hold, grab, or whatever when the ref isn't watching.

Detroit pushed all the right buttons on Saturday night. They played much better with the return of Datsyuk helping, and they took the Pens right out of the game mentally. I hope we're ready for tomorrow, or it's going to happen again.

Good point about the game seven with Washington. That score came out of nowhere and definitely not a true reflection of either team.

-Mike
 
Third - who's the best setup guy - this is tough, since if you consider assists as the only marker, the playmaker is at the mercy of his teammates actually burying it as well as the goalie making a huge save or a d-man making a killer play to deflect the shot. I'm asking it in the context of delivering the puck to give the shooter the opportunity. Doesn't matter if they connect, only if they give the shooter the opportunity. I'm not sure if I'm expressing it well - think of how many times you've seen an amazing pass to set up a chance that didn't go. Considering those chances as well as the assists for those that connect. I haven't seen as much of the Pens games, but my gut feels it's going to be pretty darn close between Crosby and Datsyuk.

All Around entertaining read Xym.

I think the quoted paragraph is hard to sum up, but a telling stat my be shots on goal. It is a fair bet that a certain percentage between 40%-80% of shots on goal; depending on the style of play and the amount of time spent on the PP, are the direct result of being set up by a playmaker. The percentages may be even higher than what I pointed out, and the definition to remember is that a shot on goal counts as a shot that has the potential to go into the net. Very few times is a goal the result of individual play (meaning no assists).

Playmaking is more than just precision passing through the crease, or to the charging player. It's finding the guy that everyone has lost sight of (back door), finding the guy who has his legs moving across the blueline. It's having the patience to let the screen develop and allowing the goal scorers time to get to the net. I keep waiting for the Flyers to develop this patience. Next year hopefully.
 
I'd like to see your thoughts on this as well, Mike.

First, individually, who's the biggest overall weapon (offensively and defensively) -

Second, individually, who's the biggest offensive weapon individually -

Third - who's the best setup guy -

Finally, Who has the greatest "synergizing effect" on their linemates.

You'll get my thoughts, but I first want you to know I didn't miss that swipe you took at me with the Bettman comment. I'm getting wise to you guys. ;)

If I have to stick with those four.....

First - Zetterberg - not even close on this one. He skates with the same amount of energy on a breakaway as he does trying to check someone.
Second - Malkin - once he learns to play without the puck and get better on defense, he'll be the man in the NHL. I think his offensive skills are already better than Ovechkin. Maybe he is learning from Lidstrom while watching from the bench, I hope so.
Third - Crosby - has good vision of the ice, knows where to place the puck. He moves well without the puck and has great body control. Willing to make the extra pass or move to set someone else up.
Fourth - Datsyuk - maybe it was over emphasized after how bad game four was, but he did provide that synergy and everyone seemed to feed off it. He didn't really seem this way to me during the regular season though.

As for those missed setups you mentioned......Crosby has been getting hosed by Grandpa Guerin and Chris "Oh, pass that to someone else while I go look for someone to forecheck in the jaw" Kunitz. :rollno:

-Mike
 
On another note, can we get any coverage of the Finals on ESPN? They must be really upset about not getting any of the conference finals or Finals games. Heck, even when I am reading an article about the series, I am getting NBA Finals ads popping up and stuff promoting Lebron James still.

I do more of my reading at tsn.ca. Any other cool sites I should be hitting for hockey news?

-Mike
 
That's Daniel Larsson, currently in Grand Rapids. He's 3rd on the goalie depth chart among "prospects" I anticipate Jimmy Howard coming up to play backup next year, but Larsson has been good in the OHL backing up Howard. They've also got a young guy named Thomas McCollum who played for Brampton in the OHL who's been looking pretty good (and is actually ahead of Larsson on the prospects chart - as of the 2008-2009 mid-season report). I'll talk the cap stuff more after the playoffs, since this post is already gargantuan.

If Detroit takes another cup and then the Olympics see the teaming of key Detroit players together with good friend Henrik Lundqvist, we may see something interesting happen between the Rangers and the Red Wings.

A lot of people think it's a crazy notion, but it's really not that unlikely when you imagine that Henrik is probably shacked up in a summer house in Sweden right now merely watching ex-team mate Mikael Samuelsson instead of playing in the Stanley Cup finals with him. That paired with Detroits very smart general manager and the Rangers very dumb general manager and it's an interesting theory.
 
don't be a wuss...;) nobody on that ice is anywhere near a Lady B..., they're all getting some and giving some, a lot of nasty stuff is happening behind the play... it's the finals and it's good hockey.


Physical play is fine, but saying someone DESERVES a hard slash? Very few players fit that mold, imho, none of whom play for either team in the Finals at the moment. That was all I was getting at.

Sorry for the delay in the reply - the net went out at work. Apparently the DNS server for the provider for about 60 schools in Northeast PA was down... just came back up a few minutes ago.
 
You'll get my thoughts, but I first want you to know I didn't miss that swipe you took at me with the Bettman comment. I'm getting wise to you guys. ;)

I wasn't intentionally taking a swipe at you. But, Bettman DID look pretty PO'd when they showed him during the third, but I digress, on to your comments.

If I have to stick with those four.....

First - Zetterberg - not even close on this one. He skates with the same amount of energy on a breakaway as he does trying to check someone.
Second - Malkin - once he learns to play without the puck and get better on defense, he'll be the man in the NHL. I think his offensive skills are already better than Ovechkin. Maybe he is learning from Lidstrom while watching from the bench, I hope so.

I think that's one thing that Zetterberg has as a key reason why he's so good defensively - he can pick Lidstrom's brain at every practice, great comment.

Third - Crosby - has good vision of the ice, knows where to place the puck. He moves well without the puck and has great body control. Willing to make the extra pass or move to set someone else up.

Crosby has GREAT vision, but I've seen so much from Datsyuk since I've seen him more, in fairness I can't call it. Solid analysis on your part :)

Fourth - Datsyuk - maybe it was over emphasized after how bad game four was, but he did provide that synergy and everyone seemed to feed off it. He didn't really seem this way to me during the regular season though.

It stood out during Game 5 to me as well, but in terms of the big picture (whole season/career)... I'd LOVE to see that data mine Smith has.

As for those missed setups you mentioned......Crosby has been getting hosed by Grandpa Guerin and Chris "Oh, pass that to someone else while I go look for someone to forecheck in the jaw" Kunitz. :rollno:

I had to laugh at this. Never thought of Guerin as Grandpa, since the Wings have Chelios (I guess he's Great Grandpa or Grumpy Old Man). So true about the ex-Duck Kunitz. A shame, I think he could pop a lot of points over a season if he'd concentrate on playing with Sid instead of always looking for the cheap hit.
 
On another note, can we get any coverage of the Finals on ESPN? They must be really upset about not getting any of the conference finals or Finals games. Heck, even when I am reading an article about the series, I am getting NBA Finals ads popping up and stuff promoting Lebron James still.

I do more of my reading at tsn.ca. Any other cool sites I should be hitting for hockey news?

-Mike

You looking for general or team specific? tsn.ca is one of my staple. mlive.com has good Wings coverage, as do the freep and detroit news. Once in a while USA Today will have a decent article, but they're few and far between. The Hockey News (thn.com) is pretty good as well. For the Pens I'd check the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
 
If Detroit takes another cup and then the Olympics see the teaming of key Detroit players together with good friend Henrik Lundqvist, we may see something interesting happen between the Rangers and the Red Wings.

A lot of people think it's a crazy notion, but it's really not that unlikely when you imagine that Henrik is probably shacked up in a summer house in Sweden right now merely watching ex-team mate Mikael Samuelsson instead of playing in the Stanley Cup finals with him. That paired with Detroits very smart general manager and the Rangers very dumb general manager and it's an interesting theory.


Nice idea, but there's no way they fit Lundqvist under their salary cap for a couple of years. Still, I wouldn't complain if he came over. And I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the GMs. If only Mike Milbury was the GM of a team with some decent assets - Holland would pillage him, as would any decent GM.
 
....Kunitz. A shame, I think he could pop a lot of points over a season if he'd concentrate on playing with Sid instead of always looking for the cheap hit.

That was all the talk when we picked him up...how we provided additional scoring that we lost when Hossa left. How he was going to be a threat from the wing and how he could take the scoring pressure off Crosby and Malkin.

Instead we got some jerk who likes to skate around and try to hurt people. I wish Ulf or Kjell were still around so they could set him straight.

-Mike
 
That was all the talk when we picked him up...how we provided additional scoring that we lost when Hossa left. How he was going to be a threat from the wing and how he could take the scoring pressure off Crosby and Malkin.

Instead we got some jerk who likes to skate around and try to hurt people. I wish Ulf or Kjell were still around so they could set him straight.

-Mike

Heh, going old school. Nice. Personally I think Ulf would help with his hitting techniques ;) The Samuelssons on the blue line back in the day were a nice tandem. Kasparaitis was fun too... I'd have LOVED to see him and Konstantinov as a blue line pairing - talk about potential for carnage on forwards who put their head down. On a more serious note, you know what Ex-Pen would be a great guy for Mario to call and work with Malkin and Crosby on the defensive side of their game (AFTER the finals are over)? Ron Francis. Yes, he's a big deal in the Carolina (ex-Hartford) franchise, but he did win 2 cups with the Pens in the 90's. I don't think Larry Murphy would help out since he's a paid analyst by the Wings, but he, imho, is a GREAT guy to have on the NHL Network NHL On the Fly broadcasts - Hall of Fame D-man who won cups with both teams in the finals.
 
You looking for general or team specific?

Mostly general now. I go to PPG and the Pens website for my Pens news. I found a couple other sites off Steeler sites that give me some great perspectives as well. Thanks for the tips.

I'm trying now to learn about the international game and the minors. I know the Calder Cup is going on, and Hershey is trying to put away Manitoba tonight. I get this really cool NBC station in HD that only plays sporting events of all kinds, but no pro leagues in the USA. They've been showing some hockey games played outside in Moscow at night. Very cool to watch and even a few former NHL guys playing. Alexi Yashins team was on the other day.

I am thinking about buying season tickets to the Seattle Thunderbirds next season.

-Mike
 
Ron Francis.

Oh yes, I remember him. His was the second Pens jersey I ever bought, Grant Jennings being first. I totally wanted to beat Carolina in the playoffs, but when they showed Francis on the Carolina bench, my heart sunk. I no longer had this real desire to blow them out. I always liked him as player and a man.

Since it's "Talkin' Old Pens" chat, what about Bob Errey? I think he would be a valuable asset to this team. I thought maybe Kevin Stevens, but I don't need all my guys strung out on crack. As for Stevens....remember when he got popped in the face against the Islanders I believe? I have never seen anything that brutal.

Remember Jim Paek? He was a good defensemen. I think he was from South Korea. The only guy I know of from that country who played in the NHL.

OK...enough reminiscing. Back to the NHL chat.

-Mike