NHL PLayoffs 2009

[burk48237]

First off Im not a Pens or Wings fan, I'm a Minnesota fan, but I think that for the most part tonight Pittsburgh beat themselves. Not taking anything away from Detroit, but the Pens just lost it late in the second. Game 6 should be interesting.

To a point. But the Detroit Power play and Penalty kill looks much sharper with a healthy Pavel Datsyuk. Think about it, Detroit played the last two conference finals games without Lidstrom and Datsyuk. Detroit was still even with Pittsburgh even without Datsyuk. Now how well do the Pens do without Crosby or Malkin for four games? I said earlier that Detroit healthy would win in six, I'll stand by it.

While the Pens beat themselves, Detroit DID that to them. The Pens that were taking stupid Penalties weren't just Kontz, it was Malkin and Crosby, the guys who are suppose to be leaders. They still have a long way to go in the maturity department.

This was the first game in the series were Detroit looked like Detroit. I do think, that the home ice, the rest after the four games in five nights to start, and the return of Datsyuk which made the team quantitatively deeper made a huge difference. I suspect with an extra day of rest going in to Pittsburgh, the Wings might be healthier yet. I don't know if Datsyuk was a 100%, but he sure played a dominating game, I'm not sure their is a better passer in the game. And his defensive presence is invaluable. the other thing is he is very underrated for his physical play, he is not afraid to throw his body around for some nice hits along the boards. And after the first half of the first, Detroit won all the battles on the boards tonight.

As far as the future, Detroit is suppose to have a hot shot Swedish goalie in the Minors. I'm sure XYM knows his name. The real kink in the future is a 39 year old Lidstrom. Other then that this is a team entering it's prime with a lot of depth, if they resign Hossa to the rumored deal, I expect them to be a cup contender (healthy) for at least two more years. And a playoff force for five or six. The other thing, they need to do is keep Babcock, I don't believe there's a better coach in the game, not that he's talking about leaving.

 

[MJ5150]

.....Malkin and Crosby, the guys who are suppose to be leaders. They still have a long way to go in the maturity department.

Geez man, no duh. Malkin is 22. Crosby is 21. When both of these guys are in their late 20's and 30's and losing their cool on the ice like tonight, you can start questioning their maturity.

I got no comment on Kunitz. I don't like him either. I think he has stopped entirely on trying to be an offensive threat, instead focusing on trying to hit people high. Kronwall is going to get him before this series is over. I am convinced of that.

-Mike

 

[JohnnyPustular]

I watched Steve Yzerman and the Wings go through this in the 1990s. If Pittsburgh can keep the key players together, and add some depth, they will have their Cup soon enough. You should have seen Stevie Y crying like a baby when the Oilers were through with the Wings. Looked much like Cindy. After one particularly embarrassing loss, Stevie simply went to the weight room and started working. Never complained again and soon had his Cup. Osgood used to be a major whiner who would constantly take cheap shots at other players. Then, he just started playing goalie and his fortunes changed. Give them time to grow up and appreciate the process. That is why the Cup is the hardest trophy to win-- the process changes you from a boy to a man.

 

[capnsandwich]

All I know is it's not over yet. I like the fact that Detroit played the entire game and Ozzie got a shut out. He's come close several times in this year's playoffs but this is only his second shutout. I didn't see the first 2 periods but it seems that they played much better in their own zone and I also noticed that their passes were sharper and their decision making was better when they had the puck.

If this continues into the next game then I'm going to go ahead and call it in 6 since no team in the league can beat a Detroit team firing on all cylinders. Datsyuk made more of an impact than I thought he would, by seeing the replays of the passes he was making on the power plays and his on ice awareness hasn't skipped a beat.

 

[Bad Brains]

Nice rebound from Detroit.

Datsyuk's return was impressive. I would say by far, best all around player in the league.

As for Crosby, why is he Captain? He doesn't behave like one. I never remember Yzerman or Lidstrom slashing other players, then skip out on talking to the media.

Not that Pittsburgh isn't capable of winning this series, but they clearly lack leadership.

 

[blues_bassist]

Other then that this is a team entering it's prime with a lot of depth, if they resign Hossa to the rumored deal, I expect them to be a cup contender (healthy) for at least two more years. And a playoff force for five or six. The other thing, they need to do is keep Babcock, I don't believe there's a better coach in the game, not that he's talking about leaving.

I think resigning Hossa would be a bas idea because it sounds like the cap may take a hit next season. Hossa has kind of been a no-show in the playoffs. To be honest the only thing that I see that could hurt the Wings is a lower salary cap.

 

[blues_bassist]

Nice rebound from Detroit.

Datsyuk's return was impressive. I would say by far, best all around player in the league.

As for Crosby, why is he Captain? He doesn't behave like one. I never remember Yzerman or Lidstrom slashing other players, then skip out on talking to the media.

Not that Pittsburgh isn't capable of winning this series, but they clearly lack leadership.

Crosby bugs me. I think he is over-rated. Ovie is MUCH better!!!!

 

[popinfresh]

Not that Pittsburgh isn't capable of winning this series, but they clearly lack leadership.

I've always thought that, whilst I personally think he's an amazing player, I don't think he should be captain.

 

[Bad Brains]

I think resigning Hossa would be a bas idea because it sounds like the cap may take a hit next season. Hossa has kind of been a no-show in the playoffs. To be honest the only thing that I see that could hurt the Wings is a lower salary cap.

I disagree. In the Red Wings system, no one really stands out. Hossa fits the team perfectly. He has been playing quite well all throughout the playoffs, but he's contributing in small ways. If Hossa wants to play here and is willing to take less money, it's hard not to sign him.

 

[capnsandwich]

I disagree. In the Red Wings system, no one really stands out. Hossa fits the team perfectly. He has been playing quite well all throughout the playoffs, but he's contributing in small ways. If Hossa wants to play here and is willing to take less money, it's hard not to sign him.

He's already taken a pay cut to play here so I'm not sure how much less he would be willing to be paid.

My opinion is that I think we should let some of the players that are making big bucks but are over their prime go, like Holmstrom and Chelios, so that we can incorporate some of the up and coming guys in the farm system. Guys like Helm and Abdelkader, who we've seen do something in the playoffs, let them take the role that Zetterburg and Datsyuk did when they were rookies. It's not like we won't be any good without them. For Holmstrom we have Franzen and for Chelios we have Ericsson. Even Osgood has a replacement in the minors waiting for a chance to get some NHL ice time.

 

[warwick.hoy]

I've always thought that, whilst I personally think he's an amazing player, I don't think he should be captain.

Yeah...maybe in a few years Crosby would make a good captain...but at the moment...he doesn't set very good examples for his team.

 

[capnsandwich]

Yeah...maybe in a few years Crosby would make a good captain...but at the moment...he doesn't set very good examples for his team.

Me personally, I'd say Gonchar would be a good one for captain on that team. Let Crosby and Malkin wear the A's.

 

[burk48237]

He's already taken a pay cut to play here so I'm not sure how much less he would be willing to be paid.

My opinion is that I think we should let some of the players that are making big bucks but are over their prime go, like Holmstrom and Chelios, so that we can incorporate some of the up and coming guys in the farm system. Guys like Helm and Abdelkader, who we've seen do something in the playoffs, let them take the role that Zetterburg and Datsyuk did when they were rookies. It's not like we won't be any good without them. For Holmstrom we have Franzen and for Chelios we have Ericsson. Even Osgood has a replacement in the minors waiting for a chance to get some NHL ice time.

Their were rumors all over the net before game four that the deal with Hossa was already done but that the Wings didn't want to talk about it during the finals. If any GM can find a way, Holland can.

Chelios makes 750,000 and has a one year deal, Holmstrom makes 2,250,000 and had one year left. At this point I would resign Holmstrom but only with a pay cut. The only FA are Conklin, Kopecky, and Samualson. Huddler is a restricted FA. I'd rather keep Huddler then Samualson, but they will probably lose one of those guys and Abdulcator or Helm will probably be up full time to replace one of them. Helm looks like a poor mans Zeterberg, or a rich mans Drapper, he is a very good two way player and he will only get better. I suspect that Helm and Erikkson will be stars in this league for a while.

 

[burk48237]

Geez man, no duh. Malkin is 22. Crosby is 21. When both of these guys are in their late 20's and 30's and losing their cool on the ice like tonight, you can start questioning their maturity.

I got no comment on Kunitz. I don't like him either. I think he has stopped entirely on trying to be an offensive threat, instead focusing on trying to hit people high. Kronwall is going to get him before this series is over. I am convinced of that.

-Mike

I said earlier that Zetterberg and Datsyuk had the advantage of growing up under Yzerman and Lidstrom and seeing how it's done. Crosby hasn't. My frustration isn't as much with Crosby and Malkin as a league and a media that proclaims them as the greatest players ever when clearly Datsyuk and Zetterberg are far more complete players at this point. There should be no question who should win the Hart trophy this year, Datsyuk does it on both ends of the ice all night long and kills penalties.

Can Crosby and Malkin get there? Off course, if they learn that defense wins Cups, and sacrificing your personal stats for doing the little things contributes as an example to the rest of your team. Crosby is not captain material right now, and the Pens whole team should be embarrassed after last night. You don't slash, elbow, and cheap shot when your losing in the finals. You didn't see Detroit take a bunch of cheap penalties at the end of game four did you? That's coaching, locker room, and leadership, and at this point the Pens still don't have it. The only thing the Pens have proven so far is that they are almost even with Detroit, when Detroits Hart trophy center is out and Detroits Norris defenseman is about 75%.

The Pens can most certainly get there. But no one thinks of the Pens as a great team. If you take Crosby or Malkin off this team for the series, they're lucky if they win one game. Because they haven't developed the kind of a system that emphasizes being in the right place and having good hockey sense. They are still two sheriffs and a posse. Detroit hasn't had near as high of draft choices, but has developed far more depth and players that know how to plug in.

 

[malthumb]

I agree with Bad Brains on Hossa. He has been doing a lot of the grunt work to compensate for his lack of scoring. And even though he hasn't racked up points, he's been central to several scoring plays.

As for Holmstrom, and potentially letting him go to clear cap space.....Somebody mentioned Keith Primeau earlier in the thread. Holmstrom is everything the Wings and their fans ever wanted Primeau to be. A big body with lots of heart and the ability to totally frustrate the opposition with his presence alone. Granted, Franzen will more than likely be a deluxe version of that, but what's so wrong with having two of these types?

I would agree that Chelios needs to hang up the skates. Take a front office job or help develop the talent at K-Zoo. He's still great to have as part of the organization. He's got the warrior persona that every team needs to have somewhere.

I do admire what Pittsburgh is TRYING to do with Crosby. It is very similar to what the Wings did with Yzerman. They're committing to him. Letting him know that they will build the team around him. That's a good thing, because he has incredible talent and even more potential. The difference in the two situations is in the mental toughness of the two at the same relative point in age. It may be rocky now and maybe even next year. It's only a matter of time, though, before Crosby grows into the role and pays dividends.

 

[blues_bassist]

He's already taken a pay cut to play here so I'm not sure how much less he would be willing to be paid.

My opinion is that I think we should let some of the players that are making big bucks but are over their prime go, like Holmstrom and Chelios, so that we can incorporate some of the up and coming guys in the farm system. Guys like Helm and Abdelkader, who we've seen do something in the playoffs, let them take the role that Zetterburg and Datsyuk did when they were rookies. It's not like we won't be any good without them. For Holmstrom we have Franzen and for Chelios we have Ericsson. Even Osgood has a replacement in the minors waiting for a chance to get some NHL ice time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hossa come to Detroit to win a cup, not be a long-time player? I think that if Detroit wins the cup, Hossa's gonna go to the team that pays the most.

 

[malthumb]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hossa come to Detroit to win a cup, not be a long-time player? I think that if Detroit wins the cup, Hossa's gonna go to the team that pays the most.

You are right that Hossa has said he signed with Detroit because he felt that there was a better chance of winning a cup, but his words in recent interviews indicate that he would like to stay. Could be that some of these statements are only airing on local area television, but he's made reference to the lockerroom atmosphere and the organizational emphasis on excellence and winning and how that fits better with his ambitions than the other places he could have signed.

He sounded a bit like a guy who may have already made a deal to stay. He was certainly saying all the right things. I could be wrong but I REALLY hope I'm right. Hossa brings a lot to this team in terms of two-way play and bringing it every night.

 

[blues_bassist]

You are right that Hossa has said he signed with Detroit because he felt that there was a better chance of winning a cup, but his words in recent interviews indicate that he would like to stay. Could be that some of these statements are only airing on local area television, but he's made reference to the lockerroom atmosphere and the organizational emphasis on excellence and winning and how that fits better with his ambitions than the other places he could have signed.

He sounded a bit like a guy who may have already made a deal to stay. He was certainly saying all the right things. I could be wrong but I REALLY hope I'm right. Hossa brings a lot to this team in terms of two-way play and bringing it every night.

Well if it works out for Hossa and Detroit more power to them. One thing that I have to say about Detroit is that they do all the right things. From scouting to drafting to free agency Detroit is the model franchise. And who knows, Detroit may have it's 12th Cup soon...

 

[MJ5150]

You didn't see Detroit take a bunch of cheap penalties at the end of game four did you?

No, they did not. But it doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Detroit was out there roughing guys up, they just do it in the flow of the game. Another proof of the experience they have that Pittsburgh does not.

This is only making Pittsburgh better. It has always been said you learn the most from your failures, not your victories. Fleury needs to have the turnaround of his life on Tuesday night to get this to seve, and I believe he will. Will the Pens grow up in one week and win the Cup in Detroit? I don't think so. I picked Detroit in seven when the playoffs started.

As for Hossa......he left Pittsburgh to win a cup, and also because he didn't want the pressure on him of being a leader the young guys would look up to in Pittsburgh. He said as much during that interview last night between the second and third period. I still like him as a player, but I lost a little respect for him after that interview.

-Mike

 

[TheXym]

I'm talking about the Willie Huber years (http://redwingslegends.blogspot.com/2009/01/willie-huber.html)! We got Hall of Fame goalie Rogie Vachon off Montreal after he got hit in the head with pucks too many times-- hence his Detroit name: Periogi Vachon. Anybody remember these #1 draft picks? Serge Lajeunesse (#10 overall), William Lochead (#9 overall), Richard Lapointe (#5 overall), Fred Williams (#4 overall), etc. The list goes on and on and on...

Now don't be dissing da Hubster... Next thing you know we'll be calling up the specter of Harold Snepsts and/or Greg Stefan. The Darkness of Harkness years were frightening. In retrospect, I'm surprised I actually became a Wings fan in 1983. I guess it's because I went to visit family in Michigan and a rookie named Yzerman got his first career hat trick in the first NHL game I saw live. My pre-teen mind liked the red and white jerseys, the fact that he was an awesome player whose name started with Yz, and that it would annoy my dad the diehard Flyers fan. He rubbed it in quite a bit when the Wings were finishing dead last. It just made the 97 Finals sweep that much sweeter.

Re: Primeau - he was picked early in the 1st by the Wings in 1990 (before Jagr.... ). Big guy, but hadn't really matured into his body when he was a Wing. He did well in Philly at the end of his career, and I was glad to see it. A decent guy. I remember him really tearing it up in the preseason in I believe 94 then messing up his hand in a meaningless game (if I recall correctly he broke it punching a guy in the helment in the last game of the regular season) and was sorely missed in the playoffs.

Re: Osgood being shot - I don't think anyone takes his acting seriously - he obviously is a student of the Hasek method . However - Osgood is not being bombarded in the media as the face of the NHL or as the second coming of Gretzky or as recent press leading up to this series - a tremendous leader. Was Ozzie's act ridiculous? Sure. Still, you don't touch the goalie. Hossa's bump of Garon in game 5 was also really bush league imho.