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NO EFFECTS? AM I CRAZY!!!!!

#41
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
My view is that the Michael Manrings and Streve Lawsons of this world, are numbered on the fingers of one hand and the kids with huge chains of cheap effects in their bedrooms, that sound awful, are extremely common! :D
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Bah! I don need no stinkin efx to sound awful! :D
 
#42
I think we all know good tone when we hear it. Over the years bass tone has changed from real deep to sorta deep to " RIC WITH A PICK" to Steinberger, to whatever. Good tone comes from the heart to the hands to the guitar to the amp to the ear. If the tone is good to start with then the right effect can make it fit even better in the music it supports. For instance, a good fretless with a touch of chorus and a touch of reverb can create a haunting sound. When I dial up this sound I feel ( and others agree ) like my bass adds to the mood of the song. But it I used the sound on every song we played it would get old fast. When playing the song "DANCE TO THE MUSIC" by Sly. The bass on the record has a moderate amount of distortion. Using a bit of overdrive distortion on the bass makes it sound more authentic. But again, I wouldn't dream of using this sound on every song. Effects are to the bass what spices are to food. The right spice in the right amount can make it taste better, but too much or the wrong one can ruin it.
jmho
 
#47
Originally posted by Bigfeet..
... effects can't be that controversial :p
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Well - this is about "no effects" - which could be seens as the opposite of effects!! ;)

Also - when I first contributed to this thread, it wasn't in the "Effects" forum either - I think it was in Misc. or Basses (not sure?) - it was moved here!!
 
#48
Originally posted by Bigfeet


Nope, it's nice to see but usually something like this happens in offtopic, usually in a religion based thread... effects can't be that controversial :p
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To a few people I know, ( me not included ) Bass is their religion ( sort of ). It also seems like we are devided into 2 camps; TB'rs who like and use effects, and TB'rs who hate effects and won't use them. I think a lot of the "effects haters" use to be "effects junkies" and went into rehab, and many of the lovers use to be haters because they were to lazy to carry around the extra pedals and patch cords. Oh well, I'm haven fun with this thread.
 
#50
OK, I'll have to be honest with myself (my therapist has said this is important).

I Am An Effects User!

My problem started in early years, I saw effects used in magazines and videos, and thought it was cool. Now I'm only beginning to get my craving for more and more effects under control. I am what's known as a periodic user, I used to go on prolonged binges of uncontrolled effects use, to the extent that I couldn't do my job in the rythm section. My band members sometimes had to remove my pedals and hide them from me... I still have weak moments (I recently fell for the V-Bass) but I think I'll soon be well enough to be able to just use effects where appropriate and perhaps no more than one or two at a time. The first step to a cure is to realize you have a problem.

:D


(My sincere apologies if I offend someone with this analogy)
 
#51
I'm one of those people that's kind in the middle. Effects are fine if it serves a purpose. In my band I don't need any. But if I were in a funky mothership type band then yeah sure I'd be using a mutron or something like that. The problem I have with effects these days is that there are so many and trying to keep up with what all does what is a little daunting. If someone gets great tone with effect and someone else gets great without effects that's cool. It's all good. Ithink thing would get boring really quick if everybody sounded alike. Just doing my best to state the obviouse;)
 
#52
Before I ramble I just want to say what a fantasic read this thread has been. There has been some deeply philosophical insight into all aspects of the final "sound".

Just a realisation I had a month or so ago:
Since the purchase of my first stompbox 8 or so years ago my collection grew slowly. However, in the last 18 months it ballooned!!!! I was constructing increasingly large pedalboards to house them all and would sometimes gig with every single one out of pride and vanity, even if I wasn't using them all!!! Anyway, the more time I spent here the more I craved (Anders Östberg, I hear ya!). Anyway; inevitably, with running so many fallible components between my instrument and amplification, I was getting intermittent "cut-out" problems. After many failed attempts to locate the source of the problem I just plugged the lead straight into the amp and played clean for the duration of the practise.

Wow! What a great tone I had! I think it helped a lot that I bought high quality amplification equipment, but there it was: great tone. I hadn't realised the gradual attrition that was sucking my tone, because it was so gradual. I played like this for a month or so and it has really helped me tweak my sounds. I concentrate more on achieving the sound I want using the preamp on the head, bass preamp and playing technique. Now that I've achieved this realisation I feel I can re-approach effects in a different light.

For me they are usefull tools control the ultimate sound. I now very carefully consider what I will NEED, not what I can shoehorn into a song (which was sometimes the case) or what I THINK I need to achieve a sound. I was often like "IF only I had "X" effect I could achieve the sound I want for this song". Whereas now I try to approach the sound from a more open minded point of view and experiment with preamps and technique to see what sounds good. In short, stating with the basics and working my way up.

I am still a keen effects advocate but now they are the last consideration, not one of the first. I play in a sort of experimental/technical rock band and there are only three instrumentalists to fill out the sound. I've learnt that I can do this more effectively w/o effects. However, I still love the "colour" I can achieve using effects carefully. They are for me, but not for everyone. A hypothetical replacement in the band may not use any, but that would be their sound quality.

I am now keen to continuously improve my technique, knowledge and groove as these are the origin of the "good sound". So I cant stay here and chat..... I have to practise.


(Now where's my Q-tron??? ;) :D )
 
#53
Originally posted by Steve Lawson
but very few bassists actually have a 'good' tone at all. it's not an effects problem, it's a priority problem. Very few bassists that I know of spend enough time thinking about sound and sonic space.
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I think you have a good point here, the bass is also often quite difficult to get right (bad acoustics where you play) and judging from other threads (and from my own experience) many bass players also do double or triple duty at gigs (I handle a lot of the PA rigging and sound checks) and thus get too little time to set up their own gear. This doesn't make for a good base sound to send through those effects pedals. So it would make sense to first learn how to dial in a good clean sound and go from there.
 
#54
Originally posted by Steve Lawson
It is a fun thread...

effects haters are a funny bunch, because in playing an amplified instrument they are already processing their sound... if they were hardcore acoustic bass purists that would make sense... :D

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
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Well - it's not as black-and-white, cut-and dried as that. As a listener, concert-goer - as I mentioned I am a an acoustic purist - I love the sound of a small Jazz group - quintet or quartet unampified.

I am passionate about the music of Mahler,Bruckner etc. and love the pure acoustic sound of a great symphony orchestra -like the Berlin Phiharmoniker - which I am going to see next Friday !! :)

But, as a self-taught part-time musician,who has had to work at boring jobs for all the money I have, then I have never had the time necessary to develop a great sound on an acoustic instrument.

I have always wanted to play music, but have never had the time to devote to it and have ended up doing things like playing keyboards - now to me, electronic keyboards sound horrible without effects - effects are mandatory to get a sound that is half decent!! ;)

But over 20 -30 years of playing electric bass, my experience has been that the best sound/tone has been without effects - but that is in the context of playing in bands for people to dance to - other contexts may be different but I have no real experience of this.

However - from reading this board for the last few years - I have dicovered that nearly all of the regular members are playing the same sort of stuff that I do/have done - rock/funk/pop/Jazz/Latin - in bands to entertain people and make them dance !
 
#55
Bruce, I sincerely hope Jeff Berlin or Anthony Jackson does not read your post. Part-time, self-taught, playing to please the audience,... You know that people like you (and me) should not be allowed to play at all. Music is a serious business... ;)

Edit: But that's a different thread, I didn't mean to hijack this one.
 
#57
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Then I will start a full-time Jazz course and learn to play Double Bass properly! ;)
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-and elevate yourself into the Ed Fuqua league of newbie-crushing:p

originally posted by Steve Lawson
Cheap effects aren't the problem - I heard Michael Manring play through a Zoom 506 - I was craning my neck to see what this amazing unit was that he had!!

interesting- also Will Lee has appeared in ads endorsing the 506. it's noisy on some settings- the chorus particularly, but definitely a useable unit for live playing as well as practice.
the chorus on it is actually quite rich in lows, but the distortion loses low end.
 

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