I've been doing studio teaching at local colleges for several years and lately have had some questions from various quarters about my academic credentials. The answer is I don't have any. I never went to music school and have no formal training as such. Whatever knowledge I claim to have has come from experience as a career professional and mentors along the way. Once I start with a student and they accept that I more or less know what I'm talking about we're okay, but occasionally a parent or other faculty member will be uncertain or skeptical since I have no diploma. Credentials can be very important in the academic world and I enjoy the limited part I have in it, but not enough to try to get any. My questions for you teachers if you're in a situation like this, or if you're an actual credentialed faculty member, are: What is your thinking about my situation? Should I really have some credential to be legit?
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Double Bass No Teaching Credential
- Thread starter Bruce Calin
- Start date
In my experience, credential requirements for adjunct (part time) are decided at a fairly high level, typically whole department, or sometimes a whole college or university. When I taught at the local community college, at one point, they sent out a note to all of the part-timers to say that if you didn’t have at least a masters degree, you might wanna look into getting one otherwise you wouldn’t be re-hired.
In your place, “legit“ is in your mind and in the mind of your students. So, no, I wouldn’t go to college now if you haven’t felt the need to before this unless someone tells you you have to, if you want to keep teaching at that college.
NB: I have four college degrees in music, starting with a community college and ending with a doctoral degree. There is a joke that goes, “What do you call the person who graduated last in his class in medical school?” The answer is, “Doctor.“ In my opinion, the same kind of thing applies to musicians who teach: some people are good at it and others aren’t, and you sound like you don’t need any more education than you already have.
Just my opinion and your mileage may vary.
-S-
In your place, “legit“ is in your mind and in the mind of your students. So, no, I wouldn’t go to college now if you haven’t felt the need to before this unless someone tells you you have to, if you want to keep teaching at that college.
NB: I have four college degrees in music, starting with a community college and ending with a doctoral degree. There is a joke that goes, “What do you call the person who graduated last in his class in medical school?” The answer is, “Doctor.“ In my opinion, the same kind of thing applies to musicians who teach: some people are good at it and others aren’t, and you sound like you don’t need any more education than you already have.
Just my opinion and your mileage may vary.
-S-
I'd guess that it's going to depend on your ongoing relationship with department heads. If they'll go to bat for you, that's part of the battle. I bet that most of the rules about adjunct faculty requirements can be bent in the case of individuals with special experience that is judged equivalent to the schooling.
Thanks for the replies. My main concern at this point is that this issue has come up recently and hasn't really been much of a concern in the past. Some recent retirement of long-time faculty at one of the schools is probably a factor since the new people don't know me. I want the experience of the students with me to be positive and don't care much about the rest of it except as it affects that. I increasingly feel that campus and/or department politics are games I don't understand and don't want to play. I'm hoping things get sorted out before it gets too weird.
@Bruce Calin , do you also teach on the side in person or online? Many if not most instrument students at a college, including elite college programs, can also benefit from a private teacher -- especially one with years of experience teaching at a college. I would think that if the prevailing winds at your college changed, your talent and experience would still be a valuable commodity.
I was an instructor through both of my career's. I did both at the same time. Both were life saving instruction. Now, I know it's not the same thing but, I had a desk full of credentials and they were necessary. I knew what I wanted so I took the schooling. Then I became a trainer teaching others how to perform specific jobs. Train the trainer was part of my job. Anymore, proving qualification is necessary. People are quick to call BS if you are substandard.
Credentials can come in the form of degrees earned, but in the music world, there are a lot of other things that can count as credentials - whatever you did as a musician, if you worked at it with dedication for decades, there are no doubt accomplishments that you can pull out whenever anyone asks. For example, if you managed to make a living out of music, parents of students will love you - most parents of music students are going to be concerned that their kid has no chance to do that, and if you can help them understand what that takes, you might be a bigger hero than someone with a Master's degree.
I would be fine taking lessons from someone that didn't have credentials. As long as they have the knowledge that I would require and could teach it properly. I know musicians that have graduated from highly acclaimed music academies yet could not make it in teaching. There is an art to teaching and being able to convey and instill knowledge in a way that works and that doesn't come with the diploma. I admire teachers in any medium that can teach.
I have no idea if that came out right cuz my english teacher could never get through to me. In that case I can not blame the teacher though. A student must also be willing to listen and learn. Carry on....
I have no idea if that came out right cuz my english teacher could never get through to me. In that case I can not blame the teacher though. A student must also be willing to listen and learn. Carry on....
Hi Bruce,
If the colleges you are teaching at are asking it could because they need a certain number of credentialed staff per department.
I don't know where you working but in California teaching credentials are important at the K-12 and college level. College level does have some wiggle room as long as you can prove your professional expertise. I taught private lessons for a long time, then at a private school without a credential but I do have a B.M. in Commercial Music and a Masters in Double bass. I am now a tenured elementary music teacher. I do have a credential for that. All that to say context is everything. Are students asking you about your background? Are Administrators? It could be political in that a new dean of music wants all his staff to have Masters of PHD's in their respective fields. I don't know, the degrees and credentials are cool I am proud of that work but it doesn't mean anything if I can't teach or play to back them up. If you are getting good evaluations from your students it shouldn't matter. Just my 2 cents.
If the colleges you are teaching at are asking it could because they need a certain number of credentialed staff per department.
I don't know where you working but in California teaching credentials are important at the K-12 and college level. College level does have some wiggle room as long as you can prove your professional expertise. I taught private lessons for a long time, then at a private school without a credential but I do have a B.M. in Commercial Music and a Masters in Double bass. I am now a tenured elementary music teacher. I do have a credential for that. All that to say context is everything. Are students asking you about your background? Are Administrators? It could be political in that a new dean of music wants all his staff to have Masters of PHD's in their respective fields. I don't know, the degrees and credentials are cool I am proud of that work but it doesn't mean anything if I can't teach or play to back them up. If you are getting good evaluations from your students it shouldn't matter. Just my 2 cents.
It's the Wizard of Oz - did the Tinman, Scarecrow and Lion need external validation? But there a lot of folks that are credential-crazy, and in an institutional setting, there may be an insistence upon credentials as a form of insurance: a degree of schmuck insurance in case the cerdentialed one can't hang, but the initial hiring decision is defensible based on paper, OR true insurance issues if the institution's insuror is vetting for such things. Or statutory stuff, as pointed out by kph24. Meanwhile, consider a close friend with whom I did hundreds of gigs, in all kinds of live and studio settings in my trombone years. He was - and remains - excellent on trumpet and jazz flute, and for many years had a sizable studio of private students on both instruments. He's no longer teaching (also semi-retired overall), but tells me that a turning point was increasing inquiry as to whether he had a degree in music or teaching - and he does not. It rankled him to see promising students go elsewhere because the parents insisted on a paper credential.
Net net - if teaching is gonna be a major arrow in your quiver, than some pursuit of paper could be useful.
Net net - if teaching is gonna be a major arrow in your quiver, than some pursuit of paper could be useful.
If someone can show me a resume of their work, a portfolio, I'm comfortable taking lessons with them.
If you want to teach in public schools, obviously you would have to get a teaching certificate. Colleges this is often the case as well.
For private teaching, MTNA exists... but it is not specifically for Double Bass, it is rather broad and requires you to show proficiency in teaching a variety of instruments. It might be doable for you though! Saying "I am an MTNA Nationally Certified Teacher of Music" might be the paper you need.
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If you want to teach in public schools, obviously you would have to get a teaching certificate. Colleges this is often the case as well.
For private teaching, MTNA exists... but it is not specifically for Double Bass, it is rather broad and requires you to show proficiency in teaching a variety of instruments. It might be doable for you though! Saying "I am an MTNA Nationally Certified Teacher of Music" might be the paper you need.
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The question is: credentials for which skill set? Playing and teaching are separate skill sets and frankly, most people don't have both sets. You can easily demonstrate playing skills, but proving you can teach is a little more vague. Most people who bring up credentials in an educational setting are actually asking "do you know how to teach?", not "do you know how to play?". It sounds like the current situation doesn't require a paper trail, but all you need is one administrator with a different opinion for that to change.
That has not been my experience. Educational institutions only make exceptions to rules about credentials in the case of very well known people - simply having been a successful professional isn’t sufficient. I know of musicians who’ve played on Broadway and that isn’t considered sufficient to get around any stated credential requirements.
Of course, my college teaching experience is limited to the two places I taught at, so I can’t speak for others.
-S-
This is a great discussion. Thanks for all the input. To clarify my personal situation I only started teaching late in my career. I was busy enough with playing and other job-related music stuff that I wasn't interested in it. The last 20 years or so I have had enough time and interest in being more of a bass booster that I've gotten more involved. I have both my own students and those through colleges and other schools. My playing history originally got me the college jobs and I have been successful enough as a teacher that the credential wasn't a factor until recently. I still play professionally and frankly don't really need the money from the college jobs. I'm doing it more to give back and I do enjoy working with the students. I'm too old and lazy to go for any serious schooling and am hoping this whole issue gets resolved without any more problem.
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Lack of paper credentials can be an issue when you consider that the business part of all schools, including public institutions, is to convince their students of the absolute necessity of obtaining such credentials. Credentials are basically one of their main cash cows. Successful people who demonstrate proven expertise and have a strong track record yet lack a certificate or diploma run counter to that narrative.
)This is what concerns me in relation to my students. I don't want to be a reason for some problem for them in the future.On the other hand, I was originally hired without official documents, and to now change the conditions of my employment seems unfair. If I really depended on this income it might be different, but if I am causing problems for students in terms of their own credentials, or if it becomes too much hassle, I will resign. I'd be sad to do it, but it may become necessary.
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It's kind of a silly system that varies from place to place. In my position, I never even took bass lessons, and ended up as the jazz bass professor at my university. But I have multiple degrees in theory/composition and teach other classes as well. Plus, when I was hired, I was teaching overflow jazz piano as well, which I also never studied formally. Our classical bass teacher at my school doesn't even have a music degree - his only degree is a BS in Geology, of all things. But he played in the Louisville orchestra for 24 years, so I guess his credentials kind of live there.
For both of us to teach Masters level students, we had to go through this process whereby we had to pass an "artist exemption" process, which involved getting detailed support letters from giants in our fields stating in no uncertain terms that our professional experience and skillsets were equivalent of an "experiential/professional PhD". We are both full professors now, and in retrospect it all seems kind of silly. Administrators have their own codes, it seems, and they like to make sure that everyone jumps through their hoops.
Here's hoping that the powers that be at your school have enough sense to let you keep doing what you do.
For both of us to teach Masters level students, we had to go through this process whereby we had to pass an "artist exemption" process, which involved getting detailed support letters from giants in our fields stating in no uncertain terms that our professional experience and skillsets were equivalent of an "experiential/professional PhD". We are both full professors now, and in retrospect it all seems kind of silly. Administrators have their own codes, it seems, and they like to make sure that everyone jumps through their hoops.
Here's hoping that the powers that be at your school have enough sense to let you keep doing what you do.
Hi, Chris,
Thanks for your info and interest. The arbitrariness of this is one of the frustrations for me. That I would be okay for some of the faculty and not others is something hard to understand. Friends in academia have told me about some of the power struggles and turf battles that go on but I always assumed I was such small potatoes that it wouldn't affect me. I'm thinking more and more that I will hang on until officially told to leave. The students seem to want me to stay, so I'll go by that and hope it doesn't cause them any problems. I'm going back-and -forth on this decision but that's my latest thinking. It could change again given new info.
Thanks for your info and interest. The arbitrariness of this is one of the frustrations for me. That I would be okay for some of the faculty and not others is something hard to understand. Friends in academia have told me about some of the power struggles and turf battles that go on but I always assumed I was such small potatoes that it wouldn't affect me. I'm thinking more and more that I will hang on until officially told to leave. The students seem to want me to stay, so I'll go by that and hope it doesn't cause them any problems. I'm going back-and -forth on this decision but that's my latest thinking. It could change again given new info.
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I’d be disinclined to resign if I were to find myself in a situation like that. There is such a thing as wrongful termination under US labor law. And if someone has demonstrated the ability to do the job only to face termination or harassment because his/her employer arbitrarily moved the goalposts for the position then some accommodation or compensatory settlement from the employer is likely due that employee.
