North coil/both coils/south coil + series/parallel

[theculprit]

I'm needing a wiring diagram and identification of switches needed for the following.

On this project I'm planning, I'll be coupling a John East Uni-pre (4 or 5 knob) with a Bartolini 2J-squared pickup in the bridge, and a Bart original quad coil in the neck. For each pickup, I'm planning to use two mini toggle switches to have all 4 options available.

SWITCH 1 positions are to be. 1. Front coil (split P on the neck p'up) 2. Both coils 3. Rear coil (reverse P on the neck p'up).

SWITCH 2 positions are to be. 1. Series. 2. Parallel.

I have read, and as I understand, that with this setup, for the front and rear coil (P and reverse P on the neck pup) positions to have output, switch 2 must be in the "series" position, thereby functioning as a kill switch when switched to the "parallel" position.

Thank you for taking the time to read and advise.
Dan

Here are the pickups

Neck:

Bridge:

 

[Malak the Mad]

Why Dorothy, you've always had the power, my dear! You've had it all along!

Seriously, though…if you click on the yellow "Wiring Diagram PDF" link for each pickup, you'll get a number of switch wiring options. If it's any help, see if either of these have the system you're shooting for.

• https://bartolini.net/wp-content/uploads/Docs/Pickups/Wiring/2J-Square-Wiring-Diagrams.pdf
• https://bartolini.net/wp-content/up...ing/Original-Quad-Using-4-Conductor-Cable.pdf

 

[theculprit]

Why Dorothy, you've always had the power, my dear! You've had it all along!

Seriously, though…if you click on the yellow "Wiring Diagram PDF" link for each pickup, you'll get a number of switch wiring options. If it's any help, see if either of these have the system you're shooting for.

• https://bartolini.net/wp-content/uploads/Docs/Pickups/Wiring/2J-Square-Wiring-Diagrams.pdf
• https://bartolini.net/wp-content/up...ing/Original-Quad-Using-4-Conductor-Cable.pdf

Thank you, but none of the Bartolini wiring diagrams cover all 4 options. North, south, parallel, and series.

 

[Malak the Mad]

Thank you, but none of the Bartolini wiring diagrams cover all 4 options. North, south, parallel, and series.

Okay, maybe I'm a little confused, but doesn't Page 4 on both pdf's give you the options your asking for or am I missing something?

 

[theculprit]

Okay, maybe I'm a little confused, but doesn't Page 4 on both pdf's give you the options your asking for or am I missing something?

The Bart diagrams only give 3 options max. North/series/south, north/parallel/south, parallel/north/series, parallel/south/series. I think that covers the 3 option choices.
I'm looking to do something similar to this diagram which provides all 4 choices, but with north/both/south on the 3 way switch, and series/parallel on the 2 way switch.

 

[theculprit]

Okay, maybe I'm a little confused, but doesn't Page 4 on both pdf's give you the options your asking for or am I missing something?

Here's a thread discussing what I'm going for which is probably more succinct than my convoluted explanation. The first response was a diagram, but the picture is no longer available to view.

Thread 'Series paralell switch and selcectable coil split?'

Jan 29, 2015

So I've been thinking about changing up the wiring on a bass with an SD nyc 5 bass pickup, it's a four conductor humbucker and I was wanting to know if it would work to have a series parallel switch, and a coil split that would be selectable front and back coils, its ok if one switch is reliant on the position of the other to work properly. I know that these work in isolation but would this work together? I also want to have a toggle that switches between capacitors on the tone knob and can be switched so it would act as a bass cut as well, eg high value, then standard value, then bass...

• Will_White
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Pickups & Electronics [BG]

Here's another thread which has the wording, but no diagram

Thread 'Coil Switching: Series/Parallel/Single + Front Coil/Rear Coil'

Feb 9, 2022

Hi everyone -

I am hoping to get some guidance on a pickup wiring scheme I have not tried yet.

My new bass will be getting a pair of Nordy BigRigs. I am planning to wire each pickup to series/parallel/single toggle switches (one on/on/on switch per pickup). I've done this on a number of basses and the versatility can't be beat.

In addition to the series/parallel/single switching option, I'd like to also be able to select WHICH of the two coils is being used when the pickup is set to single coil mode. Unfortunately, I have not seen any schematics for this, and I'm not sure how it would...

• Lonnybass
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Pickups & Electronics [BG]

Thanks!

 

[Malak the Mad]

Here's a thread discussing what I'm going for which is probably more succinct than my convoluted explanation. The first response was a diagram, but the picture is no longer available to view.

Ahhh…I think I see where I misread your original post. I thought the second switch was for the second pickup. So we're clear, do you mean the second switch is meant to encompass both pickups in either series and parallel?

Based on how you phrased it…

I'm needing a wiring diagram and identification of switches needed for the following.

On this project I'm planning, I'll be coupling a John East Uni-pre (4 or 5 knob) with a Bartolini 2J-squared pickup in the bridge, and a Bart original quad coil in the neck. For each pickup, I'm planning to use two mini toggle switches to have all 4 options available.

SWITCH 1 positions are to be. 1. Front coil (split P on the neck p'up) 2. Both coils 3. Rear coil (reverse P on the neck p'up).

SWITCH 2 positions are to be. 1. Series. 2. Parallel.

…I read this as SWITCH 1 would control the Original Quad-coil's three positions…

…and SWITCH 2 would toggle the 2J-Squared pickup between series and parallel.

In my haste, I missed the "two switches per pickup" groove. Sorry about misinterpreting your idea.

 

[walterw]

On this project I'm planning, I'll be coupling a John East Uni-pre (4 or 5 knob) with a Bartolini 2J-squared pickup in the bridge, and a Bart original quad coil in the neck. For each pickup, I'm planning to use two mini toggle switches to have all 4 options available.

so these are the classic bartolini "skinny soapbar" shape?

if so, i gotta say that there's not much point in switching between one coil and the other coil inside the same pickup shell for sonic reasons, they're close enough to each other that they'd mostly sound the same

same with switching between the split coils in a straight line vs a pseudo P-pickup inside the pickup shell, again the coils are all so close to each other that they'll all sound kind of similar

now switching from single row to double rows, and/or from parallel to series would be more noticeable and worth having the switches for

 

[ctmullins]

I agree with @walterw. This is a fun exercise in theory, but once you go to all of the trouble to come up with a wiring diagram, spend an hour wiring it all up, spend another hour troubleshooting, and trying to figure out how to stuff all that wire back into the control cavity - you’re only going to actually use maybe four different options.

 

[theculprit]

Ahhh…I think I see where I misread your original post. I thought the second switch was for the second pickup. So we're clear, do you mean the second switch is meant to encompass both pickups in either series and parallel?

Based on how you phrased it…

…I read this as SWITCH 1 would control the Original Quad-coil's three positions…

View attachment 7399421

…and SWITCH 2 would toggle the 2J-Squared pickup between series and parallel.

View attachment 7399422

In my haste, I missed the "two switches per pickup" groove. Sorry about misinterpreting your idea.

Correct. Two switches for each pickup.

 

[theculprit]

so these are the classic bartolini "skinny soapbar" shape?

if so, i gotta say that there's not much point in switching between one coil and the other coil inside the same pickup shell for sonic reasons, they're close enough to each other that they'd mostly sound the same

same with switching between the split coils in a straight line vs a pseudo P-pickup inside the pickup shell, again the coils are all so close to each other that they'll all sound kind of similar

now switching from single row to double rows, and/or from parallel to series would be more noticeable and worth having the switches for

I agree with @walterw. This is a fun exercise in theory, but once you go to all of the trouble to come up with a wiring diagram, spend an hour wiring it all up, spend another hour troubleshooting, and trying to figure out how to stuff all that wire back into the control cavity - you’re only going to actually use maybe four different options.

I'm completely understanding this position, but I've got a J and a P bass which probably cover 100% of what I would ever need. This project started as a 5 string p/j build, which then morphed into a p/mm build, which now has morphed into an everything and the kitchen sink build. So while the sonic differences might be subtle at best, and imperceptible to some, this is a way for me to learn something new and not regret not having done it when I'm done. With regard to the extra work and trouble associated with such a mess of switches and wires, even masochists play bass and enjoy bass building projects

 

[sunbeast]

I think I got it, using an SPDT (on-off-on) for single A/Series/Single B and a DPDT (on-on) for series/parallel. In this case you will need the second switch set to series to get access to the single-coil options (in your case "single-coil"= "split-coil" for the purposes of simplicity). If the second switch is set to parallel then the first switch position won't matter (no kill switch, just parallel in all 3 positions).

 

[theculprit]

I think I got it, using an SPDT (on-off-on) for single A/Series/Single B and a DPDT (on-on) for series/parallel. In this case you will need the second switch set to series to get access to the single-coil options (in your case "single-coil"= "split-coil" for the purposes of simplicity). If the second switch is set to parallel then the first switch position won't matter (no kill switch, just parallel in all 3 positions).View attachment 7399945

Thank you!
I'm brand new to switching wiring and the such, so I'll need to wrap my brain around how this works, but the picture helps a lot.
The kill switch feature would be a new thing and not having it isn't a huge deal. But thinking out loud without any real knowledge of how all this works, would it be possible for the 2 way on/on series/parallel switch to instead be a 3 way switch which would be series/parallel/kill?

 

[walterw]

while the sonic differences might be subtle at best, and imperceptible to some, this is a way for me to learn something new and not regret not having done it when I'm done.

OK, so as long as we're clear that it's about the journey itself

in that spirit i would suggest trying to keep the extra mini switch holes to a minimum, maybe testing a lot of these options with the switches just hanging out in the control cavity before you commit to drilling holes in the body you can't un-drill

 

[sunbeast]

Thank you!
I'm brand new to switching wiring and the such, so I'll need to wrap my brain around how this works, but the picture helps a lot.
The kill switch feature would be a new thing and not having it isn't a huge deal. But thinking out loud without any real knowledge of how all this works, would it be possible for the 2 way on/on series/parallel switch to instead be a 3 way switch which would be series/parallel/kill?

Yeah if you used a DPDT On-off-on switch for the Series/parallel switch wired the exact same as my drawing then putting that switch in the center position would make it a kill switch regardless of the setting on the top switch.

 

[theculprit]

OK, so as long as we're clear that it's about the journey itself

in that spirit i would suggest trying to keep the extra mini switch holes to a minimum, maybe testing a lot of these options with the switches just hanging out in the control cavity before you commit to drilling holes in the body you can't un-drill

100% And thanks for the wise advice. I've already learned a ton, and certainly enough to get myself into plenty of trouble.
Happy new year!

Yeah if you used a DPDT On-off-on switch for the Series/parallel switch wired the exact same as my drawing then putting that switch in the center position would make it a kill switch regardless of the setting on the top switch.

Quick question.
So far, I've watched a couple YT videos on these toggle switches so I could understand how they function and signal path etc. Then I literally spent a few hours (don't laugh, I'm old and my brain needs time ) comprehending your diagram, and comparing it to the Bartolini diagrams for A/series/B, and A/parallel/B. I have to say, I'm very impressed.
My question: for ease of comparison to the Bartolini diagrams, i printed your drawing and made notes including switching the white and green wires, as well as switching the red and black wires. Am I safe to assume that everything will function the same if wired with those changes?

 

[sunbeast]

100% And thanks for the wise advice. I've already learned a ton, and certainly enough to get myself into plenty of trouble.
Happy new year!

Quick question.
So far, I've watched a couple YT videos on these toggle switches so I could understand how they function and signal path etc. Then I literally spent a few hours (don't laugh, I'm old and my brain needs time ) comprehending your diagram, and comparing it to the Bartolini diagrams for A/series/B, and A/parallel/B. I have to say, I'm very impressed.
My question: for ease of comparison to the Bartolini diagrams, i printed your drawing and made notes including switching the white and green wires, as well as switching the red and black wires. Am I safe to assume that everything will function the same if wired with those changes?
View attachment 7400390

Yeah it will function the same in either orientation just switching which side of the first switch chooses Coil A vs Coil B. The only physical difference you get here is which coil is the “leading” coil in series but that has zero effect on tone. In other words they are fundamentally the same as far as options and sounds, just reversing the two coils across the switches.

 

[fig]

SWITCH 1 positions are to be. 1. Front coil (split P on the neck p'up) 2. Both coils 3. Rear coil (reverse P on the neck p'up).

SWITCH 2 positions are to be. 1. Series. 2. Parallel.

Are you still interested in this configuration? I tried with the diagram @sunbeast provided, but it kept kicking my butt repeatedly LOL. I said screw it and made a new one from scratch.

So, the new circuit will need a 2P2T (on-on) for Series/Parallel and a 2P2T (on-on-on) for Single A/Both/Single B.

From Series or Parallel, you can now switch between Single A, Both A and B, or Single B. If I interpreted correctly what you want, it's a cool idea

I don't have a wiring diagram yet (I imagine it'll look like spaghetti LOL), but made a schematic of the switching logic. Both schematics are shown in standard Parallel and standard Series (which is Both A and B on). Works as we'd expect series or parallel to work. I made the switches different colors just to differentiate between 'em. Also shown are all possible toggle positions and their associated internal contacts.

Anyway, let me know if this is still what you want and I'll draw a wiring diagram and post some extra schematics to show how different switch positions work. If you've moved on to another configuration, I'll stop here.

 

[sunbeast]

Are you still interested in this configuration? I tried with the diagram @sunbeast provided, but it kept kicking my butt repeatedly LOL. I said screw it and made a new one from scratch.

So, the new circuit will need a 2P2T (on-on) for Series/Parallel and a 2P2T (on-on-on) for Single A/Both/Single B.

From Series or Parallel, you can now switch between Single A, Both A and B, or Single B. If I interpreted correctly what you want, it's a cool idea

I don't have a wiring diagram yet (I imagine it'll look like spaghetti LOL), but made a schematic of the switching logic. Both schematics are shown in standard Parallel and standard Series (which is Both A and B on). Works as we'd expect series or parallel to work. I made the switches different colors just to differentiate between 'em. Also shown are all possible toggle positions and their associated internal contacts.

Anyway, let me know if this is still what you want and I'll draw a wiring diagram and post some extra schematics to show how different switch positions work. If you've moved on to another configuration, I'll stop here.

View attachment 7404916

Note that mine is using on-off-on switches, if that wasn’t clear, including for the series/parallel switch as he also asked for a mute option (the center setting of a series/parallel on-off-on should be a mute using my diagram). Mine was based on Bartolini’s own diagram for a single A/series/single B switch for both pickups simultaneously from the bottom of this diagram here (their diagrams also show the coil connections in each position which might help you to visualize it). I just used the top half of the switch for each pickup which is why it’s the opposite of the color codes shown in the OP and allows for the use of a SPDT switch (still gives the same outcomes though, just coil A and Coil B are reversed in series vs the OP version):

Took me a second to wrap my head around how one of the two “single coil” switch positions just shorts the other coil by sending both sides of that coil to the output, but it works. Then I just made a standard series/parallel switch attached to that. As far as I can tell it all works soundly. I’m curious where you are finding an issue!

 

[fig]

I’m curious where you are finding an issue!

I'm not, yours works as advertised. I just pegged back on his original request that didn't ask for a mute. Kinda for myself, I just wanted to see if his original ask could be done. Which is also why I asked if he's moved on or not. I don't need to waste our time drawing stuff if he's moved on.

Your circuit satisfies his later request for the mute function, mine satisfies his original request. He's got choices, man LOL

Yeah, shorting the individual coils plays heavy into my circuit. It's a cool thing to know.

I based mine on a schematic I made for having individual pickup Vol (and Tone, if desired) control in both Series and Parallel. I just substituted the Coil Select Switch for the the Volume pots and it worked immediately. I guess I plagiarized from myself LOL.