Note Selection question in walking bass line

[Groove Master]

Drew Gress - Autumn Leaves solo - live at the David Gage bass shop in NYC.


His bass-line transcription.
http://www.jazzcapacitor.com/pdf/autleavesgress.pdf

Wow you can hear the chord progression all way tru. Beautifully played. Thanks for sharing

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Wow you can hear the chord progression all way tru. Beautifully played. Thanks for sharing

Just a question.
How is Drew playing the following passage on the Double Bass? Barre?

 

[Groove Master]

Just a question.
How is Drew playing the following passage on the Double Bass? Barre?

View attachment 937279

I am not an upright specialist but on electric I did spend a lot of times on fourths and "barré" doesn't work. You've got to lift the same finger.

 

[Don Kasper]

Just a question.
How is Drew playing the following passage on the Double Bass? Barre?

View attachment 937279

Prolly Not...
The first 4 notes are probably played in groups of 2, with the LH fingers quickly "rolling", a kind of "micro-slide", to the adjacent string for the upper note.
That is, after the first 2 notes, he shifts up on the D string to grab the Bb (and Eb). The rest of the phrase is just ascending the G string.
He might grab the first 3 notes before shifting, but that puts the shift up, on an off-beat, and makes it a Triple Roll on the A,D, and G strings. I'm not sure that it makes it any easier, but he is Drew Gress, and I'm NOT!
Barre-ing on a DB is not a very effective method - you CAN do a kind of "roll" of the LH between 2 strings, but it is not simply just barre-ing - you also need to focus on 1 or the other note with the LH - you can't just clamp the LH down and get a full stop and full tone on both/all the notes.
IMO.

 

[Groove Master]

Prolly Not...
The first 4 notes are probably played in groups of 2, with the LH fingers quickly "rolling", a kind of "micro-slide", to the adjacent string for the upper note.
That is, after the first 2 notes, he shifts up on the D string to grab the Bb (and Eb). The rest of the phrase is just ascending the G string.
He might grab the first 3 notes before shifting, but that puts the shift up, on an off-beat, and makes it a Triple Roll on the A,D, and G strings. I'm not sure that it makes it any easier, but he is Drew Gress, and I'm NOT!
Barre-ing on a DB is not a very effective method - you CAN do a kind of "roll" of the LH between 2 strings, but it is not simply just barre-ing - you also need to focus on 1 or the other note with the LH - you can't just clamp the LH down and get a full stop and full tone on both/all the notes.
IMO.

I was about to add something similar. I would have to listen to that passage to hear if there is a slide or not somewhere, ;-)

 

[Don Kasper]

As someone who plays both DB and BG, I might add this:
The lack of frets or any visual cues for the notes' location leads DB players to cultivate, trust and utilize a kind of muscle memory for the location of notes. I have a relatively reliable and trustworthy system of "feeling" where the notes are on the DB, however, this (for me) does NOT transfer completely to the BG. Different scale lengths, neck geometry, etc., seem to intrude, although I DO sometimes trust short shifts on BG without any visual cues.
This system takes YEARS to get into place and it is an ongoing, never ending process of maintenance and exploration to keep in good shape. Playing with a Bow really helps solidify how the LH system (shoulder, arm, wrist, thumb, fingers, etc.) operates.
Thanks, I'll return to the DB side now!

 

[Groove Master]

Prolly Not...
The first 4 notes are probably played in groups of 2, with the LH fingers quickly "rolling", a kind of "micro-slide", to the adjacent string for the upper note.
That is, after the first 2 notes, he shifts up on the D string to grab the Bb (and Eb). The rest of the phrase is just ascending the G string.
He might grab the first 3 notes before shifting, but that puts the shift up, on an off-beat, and makes it a Triple Roll on the A,D, and G strings. I'm not sure that it makes it any easier, but he is Drew Gress, and I'm NOT!
Barre-ing on a DB is not a very effective method - you CAN do a kind of "roll" of the LH between 2 strings, but it is not simply just barre-ing - you also need to focus on 1 or the other note with the LH - you can't just clamp the LH down and get a full stop and full tone on both/all the notes.
IMO.

From what I can hear is that the C is played on A, F on D, Bb on D and Eb-f on G. So 2 groups of fourths. This is how I think I would play it at that tempo

 

[Don Kasper]

From what I can hear is that the C is played on A, F on D, Bb on D and Eb-f on G. So 2 groups of fourths. This is how I think I would play it at that tempo

+1
Before posting my response I tried this on my DB, and thought this made the most ergonomic sense to me. The rapid playing of stacked 4ths, esp. across the strings, is a real challenge for DB's for both the LH and RH.
Thanks.

 

[Garret Graves]

Also, for those who had some exposure to old-fashioned music theory, it's not so easy to accept that chromatic approach note that changes the chord quality.
Plus, It's up to me as a musician to play/use that trick/device or not, and express my opinion about it.
Should I color my kitchen the same way as Stanley Clarke did?
I truly believe that overwhelming promoting of those chromatic notes tends to dull Jazz, as some easy solution to all our issues.

Another thing to keep in mind about walking bass lines in general- devices that transcend or avoid rote commitment to chord tones, but instead act as counter melodic devices in their own right are important in jazz. Put another way- improvised solos in jazz don't just stick to chord tones, but melodies tend to be sculpted over the top of a chord progression- the melody can sound great and be an interesting statement in its own right without being easily pegged to the chord progression itself. In the same way, a great walking bass line is a melodic statement in its own right- you can sing a Ray Brown bass line, and you analyze whats going on, you see that whereas usually the chord progression is outlined in the note choices- the actual choice of notes is played because he hears the line he is playing in advance and sings it through the bass. This leads to natural instances of playing lines in broken thirds, chromatic leading tones, highlighting resolutions from the 4th to the 3rd (not normally a bass device but more common in tenor lines or inside voices), and any number of counter melodic ideas.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

if the bassist plays a C under it, it's C7#9

I was reading an interesting article about arrangement techniques for brass and encountered the following chord,
D7b10 - the "jazzy 7 flat 10."
Is it a correct notation?

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Never seen that. Obviously just an enharmonic #9, though.

 

[Groove Master]

I was reading an interesting article about arrangement techniques for brass and encountered the following chord,
D7b10 - the "jazzy 7 flat 10."
Is it a correct notation?

View attachment 941417
Invalid Link Removed

I heard about it but I don't care much for as long as the writing is clear between what is altered and not in the voicing. Which may be the case sometimes but with a proper chord symbol x#9 and well-written voicings, musicians should know how to interpret it.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

with a proper chord symbol and well-written voicings, musicians should know how to interpret it.

What do you think if a bass player decides to "improve voicings" of that D7b10 chord and plays F in the bass instead of D with the same upper part of the chord?

 

[Groove Master]

What do you think if a bass player decides to "improve voicings" of that D7b10 chord and plays F in the bass instead of D with the same upper part of the chord?
View attachment 941467

Well, the #9 IS NOT a chord-tone from the basic 4-parts chord so it is not an inversion. So playing the #9 would imply a new chord (incomplete though) F7(b9). Which is part of the minor thirds plurality of altered-chords: D7-F7-Ab7-B7...

 

[Jim Ford]

I was reading an interesting article about arrangement techniques for brass and encountered the following chord,
D7b10 - the "jazzy 7 flat 10."
Is it a correct notation?

View attachment 941417
Invalid Link Removed

I love the flat-10th concept. 10th is easy to know as a 3rd uo the octave. Thanks.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I love the flat-10th concept. 10th is easy to know as a 3rd uo the octave. Thanks.

P.S. Congratulations on my behalf.
Your comment was the ONLY one posted over the weekend in the General Instructions Forum.
(That marketing post about "sleep deprivation" issues while traveling should belong int the Miscellaneous Forum in my "humble" opinion.)

The majority of musicians prefer to use the following notation "Dominant 7 chord with #9". It clearly states that the chord is Major with one "intense" tension note - #9 added,
while
using the "flat 10th" notation brings some "confusion" for some musicians - "Is it a Major or Minor chord?"

 

[Whousedtoplay]

P.S. I found another "interesting" chord from the Internet: Suspended 4 6(???)
From here:
Just Chords: Three-Note-Chord Specials

"...inverting a chord can create a voicing which is identical with a different chord. (drool )
Look at the G major 2nd inversion.
Taking the D as root, the G would be a perfect 4th and the B would be major 6th.

In fact this is Dsus46(??? - WUTP),
and this is a (very exotic) chord.( - WUTP)."

 

[Groove Master]

P.S. I found another "interesting" chord from the Internet: Suspended 4 6(???)
From here:
Just Chords: Three-Note-Chord Specials

"...inverting a chord can create a voicing which is identical with a different chord. (drool )
Look at the G major 2nd inversion.
Taking the D as root, the G would be a perfect 4th and the B would be major 6th.

In fact this is Dsus46(??? - WUTP),
and this is a (very exotic) chord.( - WUTP)."

LOL Wow that D 2nd inversion is a very exotic A 46. Too bad there isn't a standard Jazz Notation yet. It's about time don't you think ;-)?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Too bad there isn't a standard Jazz Notation yet. It's about time don't you think ;-)?

I've decided to secure copyrights for the first inversion of a major triad as "Minor Augmented".

For example, C major first inversion chord/triad - E G C becomes "E minor Augmented," or with the bass:
Em +/C

 

[Groove Master]

I've decided to secure copyrights for the first inversion of a major triad as "Minor Augmented".

For example, C major first inversion chord/triad - E G C becomes "E minor Augmented," or with the bass:
Em +/C

Man, Now you're talking