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Now I'm mad

#22
At first I thought this was going to be about Habeas Corpus. Oh well. :(

I wouldn't worry about the smoking thing too much. Nobody is going to obey that law, I mean, are cops going to arrest you or give you a ticket?

By what I see, smoking is becoming less and less popular, so it should sort itself out. I do very much hate people who smoke around me, though. Don't get me wrong. I really can't breathe when I'm around them, so I stay away. If I had my way, I would cut off the finger's of smokers. Well, just the thumb. Then I could watch them scramble to light a cigarrette. I mean, seriously, when someone is having a nic fit and NEEDS a cigarrette, it's the same as when they light one next to me and I can't breathe. I NEED air and I start to panic.

The trans fat thing is very stupid, though. Nobody is force-feeding it to anybody. Same with tag and other bad foods.

I mean, I'm not a very pretty person. These foods help even out the field by reducing the number of attractive people around me.
 
#25
labgnat said:
last i knew people choose where to work and where to eat, if you want a smoke free environment then move somewhere where they're pulling this nonsense of forcing restaurants to ban it
Click to expand...

I already live there (all three of the last cities I lived in had bans). It is great. Oh, and surprisingly everything I heard indicated that businesses such as restaurants and bars had more business after the ban. It seems more people hate cigarette smoke than smoke.

Should I be allowed to release Radon gas into the air at a bar if I want to? If not why not? Should I be allowed to if the owner agrees?
 
#26
Poop-Loops said:
At first I thought this was going to be about Habeas Corpus. Oh well. :(

I wouldn't worry about the smoking thing too much. Nobody is going to obey that law, I mean, are cops going to arrest you or give you a ticket?
Click to expand...

When I lived in Kingston, Ontario there were a couple of bar owners who were fined for not enforcing the bylaw. I'm sure there's been others. I've lived in three cities with bans and at all the bars/restaurants I've been to they worked 100%.

Also, I dispute that people are totally free to choose where they work, especially when it comes to minimum wage jobs.
 
#28
mike phillips said:
i didnt figure the smokin issue was goin to be such a sensitive subject. i myself do not like the smell of smoke but i can deal with it. if i am at a restaurant its only approx. 45 min. if i go see friends play at a bar i leave when the smoke gets to me. for me its no big deal.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't really shoot someone in the face. I don't even own a gun. For some reason I was thinking what would George Carlin say.


As far as trans fats are considered. I don't think they are trying to control what you eat as much as how most foods are made.

This is from the FDA website and may clear things up.
Basically, trans fat is made when manufacturers add hydrogen to vegetable oil--a process called hydrogenation. Hydrogenation increases the shelf life and flavor stability of foods containing these fats.
Click to expand...
From what I understand NY is trying to limit restaurants from using the oils that have been hydrogenated. So they are mainly going after fast food restaurants that deep fry to change the oil they use to an oil that has not been hydrogenated and has a lot less trans fats.

Trans fat are in a lot of things like pork and butter. They are not trying to take away your baby back ribs or your buttered rolls. Just trying to change how some foods are prepared. The ban does not include prepackaged foods either.

BTW, this is from the New York Board of Health! That should tell you something.

Like baning smoking, I belive it's a step in the right direction. Just like cigarettes, there is nothing good for you in trans fats. If we limit or moderate ourselves to foods that naturally contain trans fats we will all benefit from it by not having to have heart surgery before our time is up.

Kudos to New York.
 
#29
Good points, one and all. While we're at it...I'd like to see a ban on sick people in public. They pose a greater threat to me than smokers. And people whose hygiene is not up to standards, I hate the way they smell. On that note, if I don't like your cologne, I'm calling the law. They way some people dress is an assault on the senses and sensibilities of many folk, as well. I could just not look that way, but I choose to focus and complain.

People. You don't want smoking in public places? Fine, the threat of cancer is a bit of a drag and I understand that. BUT, don't sugar coat the idea that the bars and restaraunts we are discussing are PRIVATELY OWNED BUISINESSES. Regardless of anything, I believe that person has a right to make their business as appealing to their target clientele as they see fit. If that means allowing smoking...then so be it. No one is forcing you to inhale or even go there.

The business owner has a right to run his business. The only way your rights are infringed upon is if YOU MAKE THE CHOICE TO ENTER THE BUILDING. SMASH, I don't like being pissed on, so I don't hang out in urinals or toilet bowls. If smoking bugged me that much, I wouldn't go to some of the local bars.

I anticipate some of you griping about my lack of concern for others or challenging my ability to complete a rational thought, etc, etc, etc. For those of you mentally drafting a rebuttal already, please don't miss this last part: I agree with the fact that you should be able to have a beer or a meal with the same amount of choice as those of us who don't mind the smoke. What is wrong with an actual separate smoking section? As in, fully separate? The business owner can choose to run his business as he sees fit (with or without smoking) and you can eat without bitching. Great huh? Some of you might lose the will to live without anything to complain about, but hey, I'm sure you'll find a way to be offended by something else..

Mike
 
#30
mike_v_s said:
I anticipate some of you griping about my lack of concern for others or challenging my ability to complete a rational thought, etc, etc, etc. For those of you mentally drafting a rebuttal already, please don't miss this last part: I agree with the fact that you should be able to have a beer or a meal with the same amount of choice as those of use who don't mind the smoke. What is wrong with an actual separate smoking section? As in, fully separate? The business owner can choose to run his business as he sees fit (with or without smoking) and you can eat without bitching (some of you might lose the will to live without anything to complain about).

Mike
Click to expand...

I remember a newspaper article in Kingston when I lived there when they were bringing in the smoking ban. They were talking about how pretty much every establishment that allowed smoking did not meet the indoor air quality regulations. In order to install proper ventilation businesses would have to fork out tens of thousands of dollars. Basically the city decided that this was too big of a hassle and that people could just walk outside if they wanted to smoke. Some people argued they'd lose business, but almost every place's business increased. Smokers threatened to not go to bars/restaurants if the ban was put in, but at the end of the day, they preferred going outside to smoke to becoming a hermit. Also, more non-smokers would go out more often, it seems. I also didn't have to wash my clothes twice after wearing them to a club in order for the smoke stink to go away.
 
#31
Geoff St. Germaine said:
I remember a newspaper article in Kingston when I lived there when they were bringing in the smoking ban. They were talking about how pretty much every establishment that allowed smoking did not meet the indoor air quality regulations. In order to install proper ventilation businesses would have to fork out tens of thousands of dollars. Basically the city decided that this was too big of a hassle and that people could just walk outside if they wanted to smoke. Some people argued they'd lose business, but almost every place's business increased. Smokers threatened to not go to bars/restaurants if the ban was put in, but at the end of the day, they preferred going outside to smoke to becoming a hermit. Also, more non-smokers would go out more often, it seems. I also didn't have to wash my clothes twice after wearing them to a club in order for the smoke stink to go away.
Click to expand...
Cost prohibitive? Perhaps. I don't think that should be the city of Kingston's judgement call, however. Let the bar owners decide if they want to fork over the money for the ventilation, it's their business. They put up the capital, they staff the damn place, they put all the work into making it work. Let them decide if it's easier to kick out the smokers or if it's worth spending the $$$.

I'm glad business has increased. It's just a shame that government has to force their morality on the populace and then run advertisements in the form of newspaper articles trumpeting how smart their decision was. Too bad they only saw it as an "all or nothing" situation.

Mike
 
#32
Chunk-O-Funk said:
I wouldn't really shoot someone in the face. I don't even own a gun. For some reason I was thinking what would George Carlin say.


As far as trans fats are considered. I don't think they are trying to control what you eat as much as how most foods are made.

This is from the FDA website and may clear things up.

From what I understand NY is trying to limit restaurants from using the oils that have been hydrogenated. So they are mainly going after fast food restaurants that deep fry to change the oil they use to an oil that has not been hydrogenated and has a lot less trans fats.

Trans fat are in a lot of things like pork and butter. They are not trying to take away your baby back ribs or your buttered rolls. Just trying to change how some foods are prepared. The ban does not include prepackaged foods either.

BTW, this is from the New York Board of Health! That should tell you something.

Like baning smoking, I belive it's a step in the right direction. Just like cigarettes, there is nothing good for you in trans fats. If we limit or moderate ourselves to foods that naturally contain trans fats we will all benefit from it by not having to have heart surgery before our time is up.

Kudos to New York.
Click to expand...

Yes, but your looking slightly at the big picture which some of the astute are not. The economic support thru Medicaid/Medicare for diabetics, CHD's, CVA's, CPE's, DVT's and so on due to obesity is weighng down the system. Triglycerides and trans fatty acids are major contributors to these health issues which plague our nation. So enforcement of "better health" is a good thing.

And as for the urinating /smoking analogy... try a romper room philosophy roundtable. I won't waste my synapses any further.
 
#33
mike_v_s said:
Good points, one and all. While we're at it...I'd like to see a ban on sick people in public. They pose a greater threat to me than smokers. And people whose hygiene is not up to standards, I hate the way they smell. On that note, if I don't like your cologne, I'm calling the law. They way some people dress is an assault on the senses and sensibilities of many folk, as well. I could just not look that way, but I choose to focus and complain.

People. You don't want smoking in public places? Fine, the threat of cancer is a bit of a drag and I understand that. BUT, don't sugar coat the idea that the bars and restaraunts we are discussing are PRIVATELY OWNED BUISINESSES. Regardless of anything, I believe that person has a right to make their business as appealing to their target clientele as they see fit. If that means allowing smoking...then so be it. No one is forcing you to inhale or even go there.

The business owner has a right to run his business. The only way your rights are infringed upon is if YOU MAKE THE CHOICE TO ENTER THE BUILDING. SMASH, I don't like being pissed on, so I don't hang out in urinals or toilet bowls. If smoking bugged me that much, I wouldn't go to some of the local bars.

I anticipate some of you griping about my lack of concern for others or challenging my ability to complete a rational thought, etc, etc, etc. For those of you mentally drafting a rebuttal already, please don't miss this last part: I agree with the fact that you should be able to have a beer or a meal with the same amount of choice as those of us who don't mind the smoke. What is wrong with an actual separate smoking section? As in, fully separate? The business owner can choose to run his business as he sees fit (with or without smoking) and you can eat without bitching. Great huh? Some of you might lose the will to live without anything to complain about, but hey, I'm sure you'll find a way to be offended by something else..

Mike
Click to expand...

Truly... 'nuff said. :hyper:
 
#34
I don't smoke. I hate the stink. It makes my eyes burn. I'd love to see it banned in most public places(as it is already here in OH)...except bars. There should be at least one place where people can smoke. If you are a non-smoker and don't like it...DON'T GO TO THAT BAR. If you are a bartender and don't like smoking...don't work there! Work in a restaraunt that has a bar. If you are a private bar owner and don't like smoking...have a non-smoking bar...see how long your business lasts.

Playing gigs (and just going out) in clubs in NYC and California was really weird. Everybody was outside on the street or in the back patio area smoking. They'd come inside to slug down a beer or a shot, then go back outside. IIRC, there are now noise issues in NYC with everybody out on the streets smoking and carrying on till the wee hours of the night because they can't be inside.
 
#39
Sonic_Death said:
Look in the mirror buddy, you were pretty much the one who started this whole thing.

I think this Penny Arcade comic is very appropirate to describe you:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
Click to expand...

Actually, Mike Phillips started the thread. I shared my perspective, as your sharing yours. What can I say... some pens have more ink than others... sorry.

You don't know me to "describe" me, but you are doing an excellent job of defining yourself.
 

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