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Double Bass NS EUB megathread

The link below takes you to the Tres album on CDBaby. Mike Rosch plays an EU6 on most tracks which is mixed well up front. Great sound and he used the original strings.

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Ahhhhh, thanks! I definitely like what I hear. Would the Helicores be a worthwhile addition? With my new found love of the 6 string, it certainly makes much more sense to look at something like the EU6. ....like my Rob Allen basses, definitely more convenient to lug around.
 
Before anyone flogs me, I've spent hours reading the Stickies on the WAV and the CR's. My head is spinning and my eyes are crossed, so I thought I would ask a specific question here. :eek:

I picked up a used CR4T yesterday for $1800 and I love it. But I've been reading about the WAV and I'm wondering if the CR is worth the extra money. I understand about the different features, but I would like to hear someone's personal experience with the CR vs the WAV.

Looks like they both use the same pickup, but the CR has active electronics. I use an Acoustic Image Clarus, so I wouldn't need a pre-amp.

HELP please. Should I return the CR and get a new WAV? I'd like to save about $1000, but will I regret getting the WAV vs the CR? No one has a WAV in stock nearby, so I can't compare the 2 side-by-side.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Oh........I'm perfectly happy with the sound of the piezo, so I'm not really interested in spending the extra dough for the "M" pickups. Also.....I play in a jazz quartet and never use a bow, if that helps in formulating your opinion.
 
Would you trade in a new model Fender P or J for a Squire hoping to be as happy?

If you truly can't afford the bass you bought It wouldn't hurt to get the wav. But on the other hand if you just want to save the money and hope to have a comparable bass I think you'll end up regretting it.

I have a the CR4 with the mag pickups and wouldn't dream of trading down for a WAV. Saving money or not.

Hope this viewpoint helps.:)
 
thats a pity, i was going to say the magnetic version is really really worth the extra money. amazing tone with a piezo and mag blend


Hmmmmm. I guess it's a case of "you won't miss it if you never had it". Since I've never heard the difference, I have become satisfied with just the piezo. Now I suppose I'll have to go listen to one with the mags. Thank you for your help.
 
Would you trade in a new model Fender P or J for a Squire hoping to be as happy?

If you truly can't afford the bass you bought It wouldn't hurt to get the wav. But on the other hand if you just want to save the money and hope to have a comparable bass I think you'll end up regretting it.

I have a the CR4 with the mag pickups and wouldn't dream of trading down for a WAV. Saving money or not.

Hope this viewpoint helps.:)


Yes....it helps very much. What is your take on the mags? What do they add, for a pizz-only jazz player, that justify the extra cost?
 
Yes....it helps very much. What is your take on the mags? What do they add, for a pizz-only jazz player, that justify the extra cost?

The sound is much fuller with the magnetic pickups and you don't get an endpin stand with the WAV and the wav has a rosewood fingerboard. It may not be worth an additional 1,000 to you.
 
I recently converted to the NS endpin from the tripod stand. There are pros and cons to the switch and I'd like to offer my personal experience for your consideration, as well as some musings on strings and setup, and the desire for a neck heel on the NS.

First, I must confess that I have used quite a few EUBs in the past - Yamaha Silent Basses, BSX Allegros and an Eminence RN4. The NS was my third or fourth EUB and I played the same bass semi-professionally for ~three years - at least two-three gigs each week for ~three years. I even sold my NS, then bought it back (thank's Larry for taking care of her during my insanity phase...) and am playing it now (again). When I was playing my NS regularly, I was not doubling much, so the convience of the stand was someswhat lost, though appreciated.

Long rant short - the tripod was convenient, worked well, coupled with the stage well, was easy to adjust my monitor mix, etc. - but I missed being able to feel the vibrations in my hips/chest as I played my acoustic. Many will just say, "play your acoustic and sell the EUB", but Colorado winters just aren't made for transporting basses. Besides, I've played this NS in Japan, Hawaii and Germany and after 9.11, transporting an acoustic just ain't fun.

So... a few months ago, I ordered the endpin and attachment kit from Bob ((gollihurmusic.com) - thanks Bob and Mark!). The kit arrived and in a few moments, I had what I had sought from all of my EUBs - movement, freedom and outstanding sound in a relatively durable package that would withstand the Colorado winters.

The endpin plastic piece could use some re-engineering, as could the endpin rubber piece - the rubber piece leaves residue on carpet after it is worn a bit. Replaced the rubber foot with a higher quality one from Thomas Fetterman - Tornado, I believe. Now that one give too much grip on carpet, but I digress.

The stomach rest works "okay", but if you are a little robust in the middle, you may have some concerns - I'm a 40" waist and it fits great. Larger may have concerns if you know what I mean, though smaller waists should be fine.

So, now I have a bass that "moves" with me and stays with me as much as my acoustic upright bass does, but withstands the harsh Colorado winter far better than my acoustic does.

The fit and finish of the NS stand is top notch, but again the endpin rest (rubber foot rest) is kind of dorky if you are move the stand much - think about a redesign/zipties, hot glue, rubber bands or another system to keep from losing it or leaving it behind after a gig. Also with the new Tornado crutch tip, the foot rest is a little small. I've yet to design a better solution, but will let you know when I have one.

Personally, I use a white paint pen to mark where I extend the stand to - just to make setup faster and consistent. I also tried to reorient the stand so the endpin foot rests on the rear of the tripod leg. It works and I will probably design some system that uses that setup if I am unable to create a better solution for the foot thingie.

Next on the bass will be the Neck Heel (also available from Gollihurmusic.com), ordered but I haven't received mine yet. Once I determine the final location of the neck heel, I will deface the NS yet again by installing two brass inserts and screws to ensure a firm and non-rotatable (is that a word?) neck heel that mimics the feel of my acoustic upright.

Between the neck heel and the endpin stand, I have a durable, portable and great sounding EUB that you'll have to pry out of my dead lifeless hands to take it. Read that is that it really is that good and I won't be switching soon.

Lastly and/or FWIW, I've finally settled on strings that sound pretty darn close to the Dominants on my acoustic upright and I can claim that I've gone through an expensive rite of passage determining what strings sound like my upright. My "G" is a Pirastro Obligato, "D" and "A" is a Spirocore Mittel and the "E" is a Spirocore Stark. Strings are set fairly high, but not as high as my acoustic -so around 12mm on the "E" and around 7mm on the "G" - as measured from the top of the string to the fingerboard with a steel ruler. My bridge is not set straight and the "E" side is further away from the fingerboard than the "G" string.

Well, that's about it for now. I'm still waiting on the neck heel, but the endpin and current string combination stays.

I'd be interested in hearing other's musings on the endpin and the neck heel. Of course, YMMV in this whole thing. If I lived in a more mild climate, I may have chosen differently, but for me and for now, I'm set.

Cheers!
 
I have a NS CR4M and to me the tripod stand is good for holding the bass up but not really for playing it, if you're used to playing an actual DB. I recently got the endpin stand but the conversion kit wasn't available which is okay because I'm not interested in playing it while it's on the stand. I think the endpin stand works very well because it allows me to get that same distance from body to fingerboard that I would get if I was playing my DB. One thing I did notice is that when you're really get physically the bass will rotate on the stand, what I mean is this; If I connect the endpin stand to the bass and it's at a zero degree angle after a couple of tunes it's at a 15-20 degree angle. I don't know, maybe I should start it out at that angle or maybe I don't have the screw tight enough or I'm just too much of a brute.

As for the neck heel, they do include something on the CRT version of the bass a small brass pin that's supposed to be a landmark for where the heel of a DB would be.

The fingerboard has a lot of dots on it, but they are useful for hitting notes cold.
 
i recently picked up the endpin attachment, but im still trying to tweak it into the right position.

when you stand up naturally and let go of the bass, do you feel it wanting to slightly fall to the left? if you hold down a note without any thumb support does the stomach support want to fall away from you?

i cant get it into the same position as my double bass without it being off balance enough to bug me

luckily the bottom part of the endpin slides out. just need to find some 19 mm tubing to do some modding with the balance
 
Phil

I guess that the accessory kit for the tripod stand "could" be used for playing the bass while on the tripod, but I really think that it is to hold onto the bass while your not playing it. The stability of the bass on the tripod with the endpin isn't that good so I wouldn't go there.

As for the bass rotating when played, it sounds like either the waist attachment screw on the tripod itself isn't tight enough. I'm pretty much a gorilla on mine and it doesn't move a bit but again YMMV.

As for the neck heel, check out Gollihurmusic.com (Bob's on-line store) for a picture. The neck heel is much more than the brass nail on the CRT. This heel actually resembles an upright heel in shape and when making the stretch to thumb position it lines up beautifully. The flaw in the design (IMO) is that it attaches with double-sided sticky tape. Not the best solution when temps go into the 100's here in Colorado and winters are below zero. My suggestion for the screws deface the bass, but if it works (use the tape to make sure) then break out the drill. I'm not really used to using my acoustic's shoulders when playing in thumb, but the neck heel is very important to locating the octave point.

Also, the Tornado crutch tip has a lot of "stiction" to carpet and hardwood floors so when you gorilla the bass a bit, it also stays put. Just a thought though and not a pure recommendation.


JtheJazzMan,

As for the bass being off balance when on the endpin and in playing position for me, it's not off balance. I can "let go" and the bass stays - i.e. I can put my hands in my pockets or stretch and as long as I don't get wild, the bass stays put. The endpin is not 90 degree to the floor though, it is slightly back a bit and the floor contact is about one foot in front of my stance and pretty much centered between my feet. I'm 6'1" and about 240 and have the waist/stomach attachment adjusted so that it hits me just below my belly button and at about 1/8" below the bottom of the top collar. The bass is straight with the endpin itself and the bottom of the bass is adjusted about 2.5" from the bottom of the bass to the near side of the endpin "rod". The waist piece is adjusted at just about a 45-50 degrees from the endpin "rod" - that's from the bottom, from the top it's less, so 35-40 degrees. The waist/stomach piece is adjusted ~20-30 degrees from the center so that when in playing position, the neck falls towards my left ear.

I know it all sounds confusing, so if a picture is warrented, I would be glad to post one once my camera charges.
 
Remember your preamp and amplification, set up, strings and most of all your ability to utilize the instrument is as important as what model people buy. Nothing substitutes for musicianship as the number one consideration in my opinion.

If Ron Carter or Mingus were playing a WAV 4 we would not be wondering what pickups or not it had.

Both models are great for their price range.

A poor workman blames his tools.
 
Yes....it helps very much. What is your take on the mags? What do they add, for a pizz-only jazz player, that justify the extra cost?

What Phil says and I think it moves the sound closer to a regular electric bass. I think it's nice to have around but certainly not a necessity.
I get the feeling you are just trying to justify the cash outlay for your bass. I think you paid a reasonable price a really nice bass. I wouldn't sweat it too much. Enjoy it!:D
 
What Phil says and I think it moves the sound closer to a regular electric bass. I think it's nice to have around but certainly not a necessity.
I get the feeling you are just trying to justify the cash outlay for your bass. I think you paid a reasonable price a really nice bass. I wouldn't sweat it too much. Enjoy it!:D

Thanks for the help. Further research on the mag pups tells me that I'm not interested in having an upright that sounds more like an electric bass. I don't get it......I want a EUB to sound like a UB, not EB.....I have plenty of those.

I'll hang on to the CR4 until my local dealer gets a WAV in stock and then take a listen.

Thanks all.
 
well, why would you buy an EUB and then expect it to sound like a full bodied bass?

the NS has a very respectable tone in its own right and youd be happier focusing on its own tone rather than trying to force it to sound like something its not.

people just recycle the same comments about the mags "it sounds like an bass guitar blah blah" - how many of them actually own one and use it to its potential? it doesnt sound like a BG it sounds like a NS. im happy to have some pride in the instrument
 
people just recycle the same comments about the mags "it sounds like an bass guitar blah blah" - how many of them actually own one and use it to its potential? it doesnt sound like a BG it sounds like a NS. im happy to have some pride in the instrument

I do! And saying it sounds like a NS isn't helpful in the least when trying to describe what it does sound like when trying to explain it by reference for someone who doesn't have one.

I use the mags sometimes fully or sometimes not at all. Depends on the sound I'm going for at that moment. that's the beauty of it. It is a rainbow of tone colors.
 
I got a CR4 before the WAV came out, so I had to try the WAV. I certainly may be biased, but I don't think the piezo sounds as good. I rarely use the magnetics on the CR4, but I constantly pan between the arco and pizz sides of the piezo. The WAV only has a switch.

My disclaimer would be that I have not tried a WAV with better strings on it. The stock strings are kind of like stock bike pedals to me; replace asap. I am using Permanents right now and like them a lot. But if you have the chance, try them side by side of course.

To blather further, I think if I got the WAV, at this point I would be looking at the CR. I already want another so I can have one set up with more pizz oriented strings.