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Observations from a recent metal show
- Thread starter scuzzy
- Start date
If all this no amp stuff is the way, why did I buy a GK Legacy amp? Maybe I should have just went with online tools. It would have been cheaper but I do like my TWO pedals.
Yes, count them....two.
TBH, I have issues figuring out the online tool stuff, playing with YouTube and such.
Yes, count them....two.
TBH, I have issues figuring out the online tool stuff, playing with YouTube and such.
It ain't easy trying to cram a bunch of TNT into a Roland V-drum.
My last point: A lot of this trend towards "pristine live sound" seems like it more for the pleasure of the soundman, not the audience.
I recall hearing a story how one famous band (Fall Out Boy, or someone of that ilk) went to a quite stage with in-ears not because they wanted to, or couldn't afford not to, but because their soundman ordered it. Why they didn't fire the pr*ck on sight is beyond me. No one pays hundreds for a ticket to hear the sound man.
I recall hearing a story how one famous band (Fall Out Boy, or someone of that ilk) went to a quite stage with in-ears not because they wanted to, or couldn't afford not to, but because their soundman ordered it. Why they didn't fire the pr*ck on sight is beyond me. No one pays hundreds for a ticket to hear the sound man.
It is when you have them in DW shells like Zak
Hey guys, let's be real....
I'd much rather light an hx stomp on fire than a vintage SVT and fridge! The flames wouldn't burn as bright, but the next day I'd feel a lot better about it.
I think it is diminishing returns. I think there comes a point where a small amp doesn't sound good enough to mic, isn't loud enough to use as a monitor or without foh support. I can wear a good set of IEMS and enjoy the sound for hours. It's different than using an all - definitely worth practicing with before trying it live.
My sister dragged me to a metalcore show. Three acts and I'm not kidding, I forgot all their names. However, I do remember exactly what gear they used... Because they all used Kemper heads. Except for the rhythm guitarist from the main act, who used a Kemper board. Weirdly enough, they put all the Kemper heads into racks, which in general is fine, but why not buy the rackmount version then?
Either way, I didn't really like most of what they were doing musically, but I also couldn't hear very much. The mixes were so incredibly filled, you couldn't really listen to any one thing. Maybe on the studio versions, but they really put alot into these songs, and the screamo doesn't help the crowdedness. Don't get me wrong, I like loud and heavy, but even with bands like Slipknot, there is space in all the songs.
Maybe it's a metalcore thing, but those bands weren't doing much good, except for the second act, who had some more dynamics in their songs. And that bass player was also the singer and he played a Squier Jaguar, that he had for quite some time and refinished with a sort of mirror finish that was already peeling off again. Pretty cool in my opinion. That was also the only guy using pedals. He had a POG, and a few other single pedals that I can't quite remember. His tone was very synthy, but in a fitting way.
The bass player from the main act had a literally brand new Fender Jazz Pro 5 string. I talked to him afterwards, but besides that he didn't really say much interesting. I asked some music related questions and some gear questions, and he gave answers as if he didn't know what he was doing either. Maybe he was new or someone else took care of all his gear and tone, and he just plays. Not sure.
The entire thing was very well rehearsed, very produced with a metric s*** ton of effects, and I believe they had a backing track running the entire time. Though I can't confirm that, because I couldn't hear a whole lot in general.
Either way, I didn't really like most of what they were doing musically, but I also couldn't hear very much. The mixes were so incredibly filled, you couldn't really listen to any one thing. Maybe on the studio versions, but they really put alot into these songs, and the screamo doesn't help the crowdedness. Don't get me wrong, I like loud and heavy, but even with bands like Slipknot, there is space in all the songs.
Maybe it's a metalcore thing, but those bands weren't doing much good, except for the second act, who had some more dynamics in their songs. And that bass player was also the singer and he played a Squier Jaguar, that he had for quite some time and refinished with a sort of mirror finish that was already peeling off again. Pretty cool in my opinion. That was also the only guy using pedals. He had a POG, and a few other single pedals that I can't quite remember. His tone was very synthy, but in a fitting way.
The bass player from the main act had a literally brand new Fender Jazz Pro 5 string. I talked to him afterwards, but besides that he didn't really say much interesting. I asked some music related questions and some gear questions, and he gave answers as if he didn't know what he was doing either. Maybe he was new or someone else took care of all his gear and tone, and he just plays. Not sure.
The entire thing was very well rehearsed, very produced with a metric s*** ton of effects, and I believe they had a backing track running the entire time. Though I can't confirm that, because I couldn't hear a whole lot in general.
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I don't think we will just fully shift to modelling. It's just too much. And most musicians don't even have the money to spend on something like a Helix. There will definitely be an increase as the technology becomes more affordable, but I don't think it will shift too heavily.
Those metal bands are sort of the exception, probably for a bunch of reasons. But those guys also aren't all in their 20s. Most big metal acts have no one in their 20s anymore. All those guys grew up in a time where modelling was a crazy mans idea of how the future will look like. Modelling just makes everything very consistent, which is probably what makes it so appealing for metal bands.
I would imagine that it goes into the direction where we have alot of effects modelling, but people will still want their amps, be it full tube, hybrid, class A, or class D.
That's a question for the ages. Got a friend with a tour rig from his glory days he still insists on using. I've learned that a pro 4x12 made of thick 14-ply birch plywood can weigh north of 100lbs. A really awkward lift too, and not nearly all club load-ins are flat pushes or ramps
Not everyone will, but you don't need to spend Helix money either. Boss GX-100, Headrush, NUX, Tonex, Zoom, plenty of competition around and under 500 bucks new. Boss Katana modeling amps have been really successful as well. But I get it, if you play a couple bar gigs a year at best, might not be worth the investment.
Wedding bands I've seen lately have mostly been on modelers. Pop/Rock/Metal bands playing bigger clubs (typically with good L-Acoustics, d&b or Nexo systems), modelers again. The convenience starts to become a factor when you play out more (and don't want to rent a backline every time).
I mix a relative's dad blues band from time to time. Small tweed combos, reasonable stage volume. All you have in PA is one vocal mic, a little guitar, a little kick - four open mics total. Mixes itself, dead easy compared to a loud metal band.
I agree.
Bingo. And bands are cancelling tours right now, as we speak, due to the impracticality of taking their roadies and their setups around. Cost-cutting is the future of the solvent touring band.
No, it will not... in fact there is no such thing as "ampless" as that is what a PA is, we are just changing the point of amplification and tone shaping.
To those who are saying "Line 6 etc. were supposed to eradicate real amps and it never happened"... it simply is not the same anymore. I'm not saying real amps are disappearing, but Fractal, Kemper, etc. are everywhere. Silent stage bar bands with IEMs? Plenty. We are at that point where it makes sense to use modelers on a variety of scales.
Headlining massive artists with massive stage shows need the technology to get consistent sound that can be programmed and changed easily on the fly.
Smaller-scale touring bands that have PA support are often going to opt to save the cost of transporting amps/cabs when margins are narrow.
And regular old weekend warriors are seeing the practicality and convenience of modeling/FOH-only amplification with IEMs.
It's not gonna kill amps... I'm still using an amp... but ampless is huge. Head to your local overpriced Live Nation concert, grab some Liquid Death water in a can, and check it out for yourself.
With certain genres of metal modelling is part of the sound. Kinda like Marshall in the 80s or Mesa in the 90s. I think early Slipknot was Line6, as was Meshugga. Periphery were the first big AxeFX band I remember, and for awhile everyone was trying to copy them.
I think a lot of us tend to look at modelling as a compromise - the idea that because it's convenient/saves money/soundman doesn't yell at them - but there are people who are using modelling as a stylistic choice.
None of my heroes used modelling, so it's not what I aspire to, but these days there's plenty of kids who see their favourite bands using AxeFX/Kemper/Helix/etc, so that's what they aspire to.
Never really heard any of those bands reinventing the wheel, to be honest. I don’t think of modelers as doing much other than what players who use amps and pedals do. But yeah, they are really good and they do sell a lot of them. The guitar player in a band I’m working on just got the big Helix board. But he also will be using an amp, maybe two. And they have tubes
On the other hand, they don’t have to reinvent the wheel. All they have to do is do stuff well.
I like to play my upright mic’ed to FOH best. I’ve been doing this for 33 years. Does that make me ampless?
I guess in the most literal sense no, as the FOH amplifies you, but for the purposes of this conversation, yes.
Never really heard any of those bands reinventing the wheel, to be honest. I don’t think of modelers as doing much other than what players who use amps and pedals do. But yeah, they are really good and they do sell a lot of them. The guitar player in a band I’m working on just got the big Helix board. But he also will be using an amp, maybe two. And they have tubes
On the other hand, they don’t have to reinvent the wheel. All they have to do is do stuff well.
I don't disagree.
Slipknot started using tube amps years ago. I heard Meshuggah switched to tube amps last album. Periphery was doing the djent thing with a gated Tubescreamer into a Dual Rectifier before they did the AxeFX thing... then they figured out it was hard to sell signature gear when you're known for using a modeller.
Anyway, my point is we tend to copy our heroes... at least initially, so hearing that a bunch of modern metal bands are using modelling is hardly surprising.
I don't think that's gonna be an issue in the long run, given how effective microtransactions and selling DLC are for tech companies. Everyone gets the same hardware but different software/patches/etc... far more easy to make money on names that way. People who wouldn't buy the Jeremy Axethrower signature Quadruple Stack or the "Cool" Kylie Cornfellow Jazz Combo in real life would be willing to spend a few bucks to have both of their patches in their rig.
Agreed, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make more selling patches direct than they would on a licencing deal. I played with a keyboard player that was buying synth patches on the R&B side of things.
But I figure it's a lot easier to pirate patches and settings than it is to pirate a signature amp or pedal.
