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Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club
- Thread starter Stumbo
- Start date
So, this is an entirely a hypothetical question... SC or SM?
I have a BB2 arriving soon. If I were to, theoretically, get an additional BF cab, Super Compact or Super Midget?
SC is same size as BB2, just no tweeter. SM is smaller, and has a tweeter. I am assuming-- correct me if I am wrong-- the SM tweeter has a crossover such that, when you dial the tweeter down, it is really just re-directing those highs back to the 12" speaker, not eliminating/reducing those frequencies (as standard tweeter dials do). BB2 obviously has a different tweeter, but the BB2 tweeter works that way, as a crossover not just straight attenuater.
I think I might rather have a SM b/c it'll sound more like a BB2 what with the tweeter, and because it has a smaller form factor than the SC, so if I just wanted a quality 12" speaker in the very smallest space, SM could fill that bill; it's only a little bigger than the One10. Seems like it would also work better as an add-on to the BB2 (smaller size makes it easier to fit the 2nd cab on top of first cab; plus is tweeted like the BB2)
Thoughts, anyone? Especially you, monsterthompson, since you have all three of these cabs...
I have a BB2 arriving soon. If I were to, theoretically, get an additional BF cab, Super Compact or Super Midget?
SC is same size as BB2, just no tweeter. SM is smaller, and has a tweeter. I am assuming-- correct me if I am wrong-- the SM tweeter has a crossover such that, when you dial the tweeter down, it is really just re-directing those highs back to the 12" speaker, not eliminating/reducing those frequencies (as standard tweeter dials do). BB2 obviously has a different tweeter, but the BB2 tweeter works that way, as a crossover not just straight attenuater.
I think I might rather have a SM b/c it'll sound more like a BB2 what with the tweeter, and because it has a smaller form factor than the SC, so if I just wanted a quality 12" speaker in the very smallest space, SM could fill that bill; it's only a little bigger than the One10. Seems like it would also work better as an add-on to the BB2 (smaller size makes it easier to fit the 2nd cab on top of first cab; plus is tweeted like the BB2)
Thoughts, anyone? Especially you, monsterthompson, since you have all three of these cabs...
Gonna play with the combos tonight to see which I like best. I will say that the BB2 is NOT the same size as the SC, though I thought it was. The extra depth on the BB2 makes the total volume significantly bigger. It's still a reasonably sized box and quite light, but it is definitely bigger than the SC.
My concern is that the SM tweeter and the BB2 driver aren't going to mate up in an "ideal" way. They will have different responses and the the possiblity of being at varying degrees of on/off depending on where you turn the crossover dials. The SC is going to be all woofer and the BB2 driver could be turned to a higher setting to help keep the balance in the sound vs. adjusting two tweeter levels and crossover controls. All is this speculation until 7pm PST, after I've eaten dinner and resolved my indifference to being evicted
Also not sure on the crossover vs attenuation differences mentioned above for the SM vs BB2.
My concern is that the SM tweeter and the BB2 driver aren't going to mate up in an "ideal" way. They will have different responses and the the possiblity of being at varying degrees of on/off depending on where you turn the crossover dials. The SC is going to be all woofer and the BB2 driver could be turned to a higher setting to help keep the balance in the sound vs. adjusting two tweeter levels and crossover controls. All is this speculation until 7pm PST, after I've eaten dinner and resolved my indifference to being evicted
Also not sure on the crossover vs attenuation differences mentioned above for the SM vs BB2.
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alexclaber
Commercial User
It isn't terribly obvious in photos but the SC is quite a lot smaller than the BB2 - it's about 1/2" narrower and almost 3" shallower front to back. Different tuning frequency too - they're the three reasons I recommend dual BB2 as a stack rather than BB2 on SC. The two 1x12XN stacks I recommend are: SM+SM, SC+SC, BB2+BB2, SM+SC, SM+BB2. They all have their pros and cons but there's good reason behind all of them. BB2+BB2, SC+SC and SM+BB2 are probably the most popular, in descending order.
Super Midget HF control works the same as the Big Baby 2 one, so as you turn the tweeter down you hear more treble from the 12XN driver.
dieselman
Supporting Member
Evicted?
Gonna play with the combos tonight to see which I like best. I will say that the BB2 is NOT the same size as the SC, though I thought it was. The extra depth on the BB2 makes the total volume significantly bigger. It's still a reasonably sized box and quite light, but it is definitely bigger than the SC.
My concern is that the SM tweeter and the BB2 driver aren't going to mate up in an "ideal" way. They will have different responses and the the possiblity of being at varying degrees of on/off depending on where you turn the crossover dials. The SC is going to be all woofer and the BB2 driver could be turned to a higher setting to help keep the balance in the sound vs. adjusting two tweeter levels and crossover controls. All is this speculation until 7pm PST, after I've eaten dinner and resolved my indifference to being evicted
Also not sure on the crossover vs attenuation differences mentioned above for the SM vs BB2.
Testing the volume of these combos could get loud. No pain, no gain
Actually, my neighbors and landlord are super tolerant.
That BB2 will open up in a very pleasing and beneficial way about 10-12 hours into its break-in. Reserve your judgments after you get this post-break-in experience.
I recently pulled out my second BB2 and played it as a stack in sessions over three days. Super luscious tone. This cab is so lightweight and relatively small for a 112 super cab. Using two was a no-brainer. Two = tower of formidable tone and power. Love the tone of coupled identical drivers!
I recently pulled out my second BB2 and played it as a stack in sessions over three days. Super luscious tone. This cab is so lightweight and relatively small for a 112 super cab. Using two was a no-brainer. Two = tower of formidable tone and power. Love the tone of coupled identical drivers!
Thanks Alex, great to have information directly from the source. So, SC is not recommended as an optimal pairing with BB2 (although monsterthompson thought they sounded good together)... in part due to different tuning frequencies. But, SM is recommended w/ BB2. Does this mean they have similar tuning frequencies? Or, since SM plays nicely with either BB2 or SC, does it just happen to have a tuning frequency that is in between the other two and is thus complimentary? My technical knowledge of tuning frequencies leaves something to be desired, so I apologize if these questions make no sense.
Same drivers in all three-- SC, SM, BB2-- correct?
I am assuming too that a One10 would not be a good pairing with a BB2 (although at least one TB'er liked them together), but I will likely try it and find out once my BB2 arrives and the One10 you are building for me is completed and shipped. Seems just basic volume balance might be odd with One10 and BB2, but of course at this point I have no idea.
monster, while Alex later ID's the most popular pairings, he did say "The two 1x12XN stacks I recommend are: SM+SM, SC+SC, BB2+BB2, SM+SC, SM+BB2." By which he means, I think, the stacks of two cabs that he'd recommend are those 5 combinations, not that he recommends only 2 pairings (since 5 are listed). Does sound like a 2nd BB2 would be the ideal pairing for a BB2; but having a SM would give me another option... such as an even smaller cab to use by itself if situations called for it. But... I have a One10 coming to fill that role.
I am thinking about listing my two one10s. They're the best small cabs I have ever had or heard, but I think I like the "bigger" tone.
I can see both sides there. I am expecting the BB2 to be lush, but I am excited to get the One10 too. I play a number of small bar, and smaller trio and restaurant jazz-ish gigs, and I think a One10 will be perfect for that with no tonal compromise. 15 pounds. Yowza. I think I'd keep at least one of them, if I were in your shoes. Which of course, is irrelevant to your preferences.
dieselman
Supporting Member
I know - it's killing me because of revenue issues at the moment!
One of them lives about an hour from where I am.
alexclaber
Commercial User
SC plus BB2 doesn't make as much sense to me because it's hard to stack a BB2 on top of an SC due to its greater width and depth but illogical to stack an SC on a BB2 because then the high frequency driver is in the bottom cab of the stack. And generally if you like the high frequency extension of the BB2 then you'll miss that treble when using an SC on its own. The SM on the other hand is basically a shrunken BB2, so it makes sense for when you're willing to take a slight sonic compromise in favour of smaller size, especially as the SM is almost half the size of the BB2.
You can mix and match any of our 12XN cabs with great sonic success, it's just that some combinations make less sense to me. And yes, same drivers in all the 12" cabs.
The 10CR cabs weren't designed to be used with the 12XN cabs, they're very different animals, but that isn't stopping bassists using them together and liking the results!
When using dissimilar cabs, just make sure the one with lower power handling is on the top of the stack so you can hear it complaining if you start pushing it too hard. As you'll notice when you use them together, the One10 isn't much quieter than the BB2 with equal power (but the BB2 will handle three times the power!)
I wasn't in love with the SM on the BB2. It is very nice, but I think I liked the SC on it more. I'll need more time to fiddle. For me, the high end of the BB2 being limited by placing it on the bottom of the stack is less of an issue. When I'm playing bass, I frequently hit the overdrive, so the tweet/horn/driver is often turned down/off anyway. For me, the BB2 low end is what I'm after, when playing bass.
Next week is when I'll have a chance to use the BB2 for my synth/drum machine needs. I'm assuming it will be sufficient as a single cab. If so, the SC and SM may each go so I can snag a 210.
Next week is when I'll have a chance to use the BB2 for my synth/drum machine needs. I'm assuming it will be sufficient as a single cab. If so, the SC and SM may each go so I can snag a 210.
Those who have the BB2 + SC cabs, I'd recommend trying the SC upside-down on top the BB2 with a protective mat or double-folded plush towel between them (make sure it is thick enough to protect the cab finishes).
That should leave the HF driver just about evenly spaced in between the two woofers.
I know Alex recommends putting the bottom cab on the floor as that boosts the low end frequency output, but in most club environments, I usually find it helps to get the cab(s) up off the floor either with something like the Auralex Gramma pad or some other method (I use a black towel covered 12"x12"x12" milk crate) - yes, you will want to keep the drunks away from such a stack!
Even on the floor, the HF driver + waveguide should provide plenty of upper frequency output (which is also adjustable from the crossover control on the cab as well as on you amp).
With my set up, if I feel there's too much low end loss due to the uncoupling, I just EQ it back in at either my SR5 or on my amp.
If anyone gives that a go on a gig, please let us know how it worked.
That should leave the HF driver just about evenly spaced in between the two woofers.
I know Alex recommends putting the bottom cab on the floor as that boosts the low end frequency output, but in most club environments, I usually find it helps to get the cab(s) up off the floor either with something like the Auralex Gramma pad or some other method (I use a black towel covered 12"x12"x12" milk crate) - yes, you will want to keep the drunks away from such a stack!
Even on the floor, the HF driver + waveguide should provide plenty of upper frequency output (which is also adjustable from the crossover control on the cab as well as on you amp).
With my set up, if I feel there's too much low end loss due to the uncoupling, I just EQ it back in at either my SR5 or on my amp.
If anyone gives that a go on a gig, please let us know how it worked.
Stacked my BB2 and SC on the "sides" for solo practice. Haven't tried in a band setting. @lo-freq - any insights on that arrangement?
Went for another jam session with the local trainwreck crew and the Super Midget again not only held its own with a chaotic drummer and lead guitarist, but the rhythm guitar/singer showed up and added to the mix. The SM is nothing short of amazing. Easy one hand carry, fits in tiny spaces and travels well. All while absorbing all the power I've got and shaking our practice room with the E string and popping the g.
Again, I never went for want with regard to volume, tone flexibility, or depth and really enjoyed the ease of carry in and out.
Tonight I play at a 367 person theatre with multiple choirs for a Christmas show. I was going to bring the BB2, but don't see any reason the SM couldn't fill the space.
+1 to the killer portable cab
This definitely ends my GAS for cabs. Buy it once and be set for life.
Again, I never went for want with regard to volume, tone flexibility, or depth and really enjoyed the ease of carry in and out.
Tonight I play at a 367 person theatre with multiple choirs for a Christmas show. I was going to bring the BB2, but don't see any reason the SM couldn't fill the space.
+1 to the killer portable cab
This definitely ends my GAS for cabs. Buy it once and be set for life.
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