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Official Markbass Club Pt. 2

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#61
Vic said:
So I take it then that your typical gig doesn't have full PA support, or, you only mic your stuff, you don't use the DI?

Otherwise, for gigs with full PA support, your stage sound has absolutely nothing to do with what the crowd hears... or at least it shouldn't. Your stage rig is strictly for stage monitoring, and that's all. It should not be heard over FOH, because that would handcuff your production folks' ability to do their job, and to the best job for the band overall.
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My typical gig does have full PA support and it's usually very good PA. But I do only mic my stuff when I can get away with it. I don't object to the DI, but I make it known that I'd rather they concentrate on the mic sound and only use DI to fill in the cracks. However, depending on who I'm playing with and time constraints, I can be talked into going fully DI. Did it last week, as a matter of fact.

But I really don't see what the big deal is about a little bleed. Yeah, in a perfect world, that would be the case, but I have to hear my amp, too. And it's not like I'm a huge volume freak. So if the first couple rows can hear it, I say big deal. Most PA's I use will drown the worst of it out, anyway.
 
#63
Seems I missed to get the 150... maybe 151? :)

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#64
lo-freq said:
I've never heard that floor coupling is only audible onstage -- the reinforcement of those low frequencies does not die at the front edge of the stage (google that).
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It isn't the low freqs that die...it's the floor's ability to transmit them. Call me crazy, but I think air is a much better medium to carry sound than wood or concrete or metal. And I realize this sounds like I've totally lost my mind, but it seems to me that the traveling distance of the sound being transmitted through your stage will be greatly affected by how much resistance the stage gives to it. This just may explain why hollow stages have a greater coupling effect than solid stages. And you may just want to call Ripley's and ask them if they believe it or not, but it would seem to me that even if the stage has tremendous coupling capabilities, when the stage runs out, so does the coupling, since all of a sudden there's no medium to transmit it.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "illusion." Nothing wrong with floor coupling. It does exist as a real thing. But it's also caused me in the past to have way too trebly a tone to compensate for it when the mids and highs from my cab blow past my knees. So now I tilt back my small combos so I can hear my amp the way the audience would hear it. Not that I had many problems with it before since I've mostly been a set it flat type, but it has kept me from overcompensating for the floor coupling on occasion.
 
#66
JimmyM said:
But I really don't see what the big deal is about a little bleed. Yeah, in a perfect world, that would be the case, but I have to hear my amp, too. And it's not like I'm a huge volume freak. So if the first couple rows can hear it, I say big deal. Most PA's I use will drown the worst of it out, anyway.
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Of course this is fine. Your post made it sound like it was more than just a little bleed. That said, if you primarily mic, then it's still true that what's coming out of your speaker has a major effect on FOH sound.

Thing is, I have the opposite philosophy as you. I'm not going to make the assumption that what sounds good to me on stage will also sound best out front. Plus, I don't want to have to worry about affecting FOH if I decide to turn it up or change my EQ if I feel like it.
 
#67
Vic said:
I'm not going to make the assumption that what sounds good to me on stage will also sound best out front.
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Huge +1 here...I'm as big a tone junkie as the next guy, but you just can't assume that what you dial in on stage will translate well out front. Dial in what you like/need, and let the FOH dial in what they need.

Using a mic in the studio vs. using one live is an entirely different thing. IMO.
 
#68
JimmyM said:
It isn't the low freqs that die...it's the floor's ability to transmit them...
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But I don't think that's the way it works. It's just reflected sound. You'd get the same effect if you put your amp in a corner and suspended it... Bose did a lot of work with this. Also low frequencies are omni directional and carry for a long way before they die off, so if it's there, it's everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's from reflection or something coming directly out of the speaker.

Bottom line is, if your stage rig is audible to the audience, and you're hearing the effects of floor coupling on stage, the audience is too. :)
 
#71
Vic said:
But I don't think that's the way it works. It's just reflected sound. You'd get the same effect if you put your amp in a corner and suspended it... Bose did a lot of work with this. Also low frequencies are omni directional and carry for a long way before they die off, so if it's there, it's everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's from reflection or something coming directly out of the speaker.

Bottom line is, if your stage rig is audible to the audience, and you're hearing the effects of floor coupling on stage, the audience is too. :)
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If that were the case, how come I can't hear it when I hop off the stage and listen?
 
#75
lo-freq said:
Lighten-up there JM...I was just attempting a bit of humor (maybe you missed the smilie at the end of that post).
No need for threats of violence and name-calling.
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BTW, that shouldn't have been interpreted as an actual threat. That was more of a goof on what you said. I do, however, think if you're going to pooh pooh something someone says, you should at least offer a counter argument. And in this case, offer it to Bill FM, because it was he who informed me of the illusionary aspects of floor coupling.
 
#76
JimmyM said:
If that were the case, how come I can't hear it when I hop off the stage and listen?
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So-called floor coupling is vastly misunderstood. In this case you're assuming that the floor is creating sound. If it was that sound would not disappear as soon as you move off the stage. OTOH low frequency sound will be heard in one spot but not in another when there are peak and null zones created by boundary reflections and/or multiple sound sources. That's likely the case here.
 
#77
billfitzmaurice said:
So-called floor coupling is vastly misunderstood. In this case you're assuming that the floor is creating sound. If it was that sound would not disappear as soon as you move off the stage. OTOH low frequency sound will be heard in one spot but not in another when there are peak and null zones created by boundary reflections and/or multiple sound sources. That's likely the case here.
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Thanks Bill. I was going to PM you about this. I knew it was something like this, but couldn't recall.
 
#78
billfitzmaurice said:
So-called floor coupling is vastly misunderstood. In this case you're assuming that the floor is creating sound. If it was that sound would not disappear as soon as you move off the stage. OTOH low frequency sound will be heard in one spot but not in another when there are peak and null zones created by boundary reflections and/or multiple sound sources. That's likely the case here.
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I see. So it's more that the area around the cab is getting slammed with low end and the stage reflects it more in that area? I guess that makes more sense, but I thought for sure that vibrating the floor of the stage with a direct transmission of vibration from the bottom of the cab would have something to do with it as well, similar to putting your bass on a table, hitting a note, and being able to hear the note "amplified" through the table. Apparently not ;)
 
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