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Official Zon Club Part 3

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#541
lowlife6 said:
Now they are totally ignoring my emails. I called a few times but it's always directed to the answering machine.
...
I just need to know if I'm the only one experiencing this huge decline in customer service or is this the new norm?

I understand they are a small, boutique company but they (or anybody for that matter) shouldn't promise a delivery they can't handle in exchange for payment. And if you know you are going to be late, the onus is on you to update/apologize/rush the late order, not freaking ignore a loyal customer. I mean, you don't need an MBA to know that to run a business.

At this point, I'm just happy to know they are alive and would be ecstatic if I can get my money back...
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I completely understand your frustration, but unfortunately, yeah, it's true for everyone in recent months that they're really hard to get a hold of. I can tell you email is the hardest by far. If you want to get a hold of someone there, you just have to keep trying on the phone. I did.

Regarding getting your money back or getting a more reliable forecast on potential completion, that has to be hashed out directly with them of course, which brings us back to the phone.

I've had the best luck mid-late afternoon Pacific time, if that helps.

Sorry to hear about this. Hope you get something worked out soon, because I also love the products, like Joe and Mark a lot, and know they're busting their rears over there pretty much all the time. FWIW.
 
#542
They don't ignore emails- they're just so busy that they tend to take a while to reply to them. It's not a good thing, but it isn't malicious. They just aren't as good with emails as they are with calls. Phone calls usually work best if you call around 1-2 PST.

With Zon, as with most instrument builders (particularly small ones), one must increase the time estimates by half at least, if not longer. I've never had a bass come in at the time estimate from any builder, ever.

They're class act guys, though, so it's not like they are out to steal your money. They just get swamped and aren't the best at managing it, because they're craftsman more than they are businessmen. It's an honest critique, but for the sake of your bass you'd rather it be that way than the other way around.

That said, I've learned time and time again, never pay in full upfront (in any business). I've learned the hard way too many times. It removes the incentive.
 
#546
Yes - it's different for them than for someone making a wooden neck.
For a wood neck, you pretty much need the right scale ratios for the frets, and then carve away. For a composite neck, you need to build a new set of molds - much more work required, and cost-prohibitive for a "one-off".

And lowlife - hang in there. The results are worth the wait. They are not going to disappear without finishing your instrument.
 
#547
You don't necessarily need a different neck mold, but you'll end up with a different (fewer) number of frets. Hence why 35" scale Zons used to only have 22 frets. With 36" you'd end up with ~20.
 
#549
Mike Dimin said:
wouldn't that make the body dimensions off or at least the way the neck is mounted?
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To a certain degree, you accommodate this by just shifting the bridge back. I'm pretty sure that's how Zon handles 34" to 35" with the same neck mold and body templates. There's probably not room on the body to shift the bridge another inch farther from the neck than it already is on the 35" models, though.
 
#550
mikezimmerman said:
To a certain degree, you accommodate this by just shifting the bridge back. I'm pretty sure that's how Zon handles 34" to 35" with the same neck mold and body templates. There's probably not room on the body to shift the bridge another inch farther from the neck than it already is on the 35" models, though.
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begs the question...extend the tailpiece body material another inch to accommodate the added string length to 36"? would that work? Seems easier to work on the other end of the problem than creating more molds for a longer neck...or does that mess with the calibration of the whole instrument?
 
#551
ppal said:
begs the question...extend the tailpiece body material another inch to accommodate the added string length to 36"? would that work? Seems easier to work on the other end of the problem than creating more molds for a longer neck...or does that mess with the calibration of the whole instrument?
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I'm not quite sure what the question is that you're "begging", I'm afraid.

If you were able to move the bridge back another inch on the body, and fretted the board for a 36" scale (with 20 frets) instead of a 34" or 35" scale, I assume it would be doable.
 
#553
mikezimmerman said:
I'm not quite sure what the question is that you're "begging", I'm afraid.

If you were able to move the bridge back another inch on the body, and fretted the board for a 36" scale (with 20 frets) instead of a 34" or 35" scale, I assume it would be doable.
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Sjkold basses are interesting in the scale length concept by putting the bridge at the very end of the body, thus making a 34'' feel like a 33'', or a 36'' feel like a 35". it extends everything to the back of the instrument, instead of away and out from the body and reach.

Either that, or use a headless design with the bridge at the very end of the instrument like the Vinny...just extend and lengthen the body.
 
#554
ppal said:
Sjkold basses are interesting in the scale length concept by putting the bridge at the very end of the body, thus making a 34'' feel like a 33'', or a 36'' feel like a 35". it extends everything to the back of the instrument, instead of away and out from the body and reach.
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Or, more specifically, at least originally, to put the first position on a 35" scale 5 string in pretty much the same spot as a 34" scale traditional bass, like a J bass. Of course top strap button location also affects first position location, as well.

Bottom line is, as long as there's enough space between the end of the body and the nut, you can extend the scale to some maximum without changing neck dimensions, with the two functional aspects being you lose frets, but you maintain first position location relative to your body.
 
#555
Here's some interesting pictures I took in the fall of '07 comparing the 35" scale Skjold I have to my older 34" scale Zon Sonus 5. Interesting to see things like bridge location, last fret location, first fret location, etc.

Admittedly, lots of other diffs to consider between them, body size and shape, strap button location, exact rack position, etc, but I think it does a fair job of at least partially illustrating what we're talking about...

skjold_ergos_01.jpg


skjold_ergos_02.jpg


skjold_ergos_03.jpg


skjold_ergos_04.jpg


FWIW.
 
#556
mikezimmerman said:
I'm not quite sure what the question is that you're "begging", I'm afraid.

If you were able to move the bridge back another inch on the body, and fretted the board for a 36" scale (with 20 frets) instead of a 34" or 35" scale, I assume it would be doable.
Click to expand...

That's how Zon does it currently- neck attachment point stays the same, the neck length stays the same, and the bridge holes move back an inch when going from 34" to 35".
 
#557
Vic said:
Here's some interesting pictures I took in the fall of '07 comparing the 35" scale Skjold I have to my older 34" scale Zon Sonus 5. Interesting to see things like bridge location, last fret location, first fret location, etc.

Admittedly, lots of other diffs to consider between them, body size and shape, strap button location, exact rack position, etc, but I think it does a fair job of at least partially illustrating what we're talking about...






skjold_ergos_04.jpg


FWIW.
Click to expand...

Nice pics Vic illustrating the two different bridge locations. I think you can make the whole bass feel different with bridge, horn and body locations and sizes, thus making it much easier to play and not having to struggle about how far out from the body and reach your bass is no matter what scale length your dealing with...looks like more small incremental changes in design that eventually will become common as the bass guitar evolves over time.
 
#560
Angus said:
I've never had a bass come in at the time estimate from any builder, ever.
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Rob Elrick is one guy who tends to not have an issue with this from what I know/have heard. All of my basses have come in on the early side of the 4-6 month range he gives; one even came in an entire month early. D

Finally took a few pics of my VB4 (or Vinny, or whatever) that I bought from AJ. Love the bass. Just wish it had more strings

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