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Offspring bassist??
- Thread starter bassguy187
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eric atkinson
"Is our children learning "Is our teachers teachin
Ok man lets get some stuff straight here!
Eric:
Greg K dosen't get laughed at by the rest of the musical world. Ignorant people like you get laughed at by the rest of the musical world.
Ive never been laughed at a day of my bass playing life and its been 20 years now!
Hey tones thanks man! I woudlnt try to mop him becuae i got over that stuff years ago! But i can tell from a musician how well they play from alot of the stuff they listen too! I do give a credit to people that listen to bad music because it takes them back to there youth or somthing! I call that candy! As far as playing what your supposed to play as a bass player--man you have a really long way to go. You will someday after playing for years relize that you dont have to be the star to show the world how good you are! Take a few bands you might remember ummmm pearl jamm bass player ehhhh! Stone temple pilots bass player yes! See he isnt a show off but he plays it to the point that another musican will go man he is really good and he fills in that song great! See the guy from the offspring is kinda a 1.2.3 type guy ya know! The guy from stp puts great fills in and plays with the scales. The guy from offspring thinks i will play the root not that the guitar player is doing and doesnt relize that he should listen to the drummer instead of the damn guitar player! Dont worry what the guitar player is doing you need to think like a drummer not a guitar player! You and the drummer need to think alike to get those fills in correctly! Set back and listen to som dave mathews band for awhile and you might see what iam saying! Steffan doesnt get alot of great things said about him because he doesnt jump around and slap all the time but instead he plays from the heart not from a book saying this is what you are supposed to play!
Eric:
Greg K dosen't get laughed at by the rest of the musical world. Ignorant people like you get laughed at by the rest of the musical world.
Ive never been laughed at a day of my bass playing life and its been 20 years now!
Hey tones thanks man! I woudlnt try to mop him becuae i got over that stuff years ago! But i can tell from a musician how well they play from alot of the stuff they listen too! I do give a credit to people that listen to bad music because it takes them back to there youth or somthing! I call that candy! As far as playing what your supposed to play as a bass player--man you have a really long way to go. You will someday after playing for years relize that you dont have to be the star to show the world how good you are! Take a few bands you might remember ummmm pearl jamm bass player ehhhh! Stone temple pilots bass player yes! See he isnt a show off but he plays it to the point that another musican will go man he is really good and he fills in that song great! See the guy from the offspring is kinda a 1.2.3 type guy ya know! The guy from stp puts great fills in and plays with the scales. The guy from offspring thinks i will play the root not that the guitar player is doing and doesnt relize that he should listen to the drummer instead of the damn guitar player! Dont worry what the guitar player is doing you need to think like a drummer not a guitar player! You and the drummer need to think alike to get those fills in correctly! Set back and listen to som dave mathews band for awhile and you might see what iam saying! Steffan doesnt get alot of great things said about him because he doesnt jump around and slap all the time but instead he plays from the heart not from a book saying this is what you are supposed to play!
absolutely, man - musical taste is definitely indicitive of a musician's own experience and skill. i've noticed that the most talented musicians that i've come into contact with listened to jazz/blues/funk, and not much else. i'll even quote the leader of my jazz band on this one -
"if it ain't black, it's whack." and he's white, too
we can all acknowledge that yes, Greg Kiesel functions well in his role as the bass player for the Offspring. we can also acknowledge that he is given a fair bit of room to add some interesting stuff to the bass side of things, but doesn't. what we need here are some comparisons, more punk bassists to judge his standard by. of course, the first great punk bass'er that springs to mind is Matt Freeman of Rancid. see what this guy does, and compare it to Greg K.'s efforts. i still think, however, that it all boils down to the fact that the electric bass guitar is still very much in its infancy as far as development goes - people still aren't sure just how exactly to work it into the music, they only know that it needs to be there somewhere. which is an entirely different concept, so i really don't wanna get into it
but if you're listening to Greg's playing thinking, "god this guy RULES !!!" then, hey that's fine, but you're kinda limiting yourself. he's fine, yep - plays in time, occassionally plays something cool. most bassists are like this - solid and functional.
i just can't help thinking there is a lot more that can be done with the bass, and a lot of guys just come straight from guitar, learn a few bass riffs and basic theory and that's all ! i guess some people think these simplistic bassists like (but not limited to
) Greg K. do the bass a disservice. anyway peeps, it's up to you guys. i'm just rambling incoherently.
"if it ain't black, it's whack." and he's white, too
we can all acknowledge that yes, Greg Kiesel functions well in his role as the bass player for the Offspring. we can also acknowledge that he is given a fair bit of room to add some interesting stuff to the bass side of things, but doesn't. what we need here are some comparisons, more punk bassists to judge his standard by. of course, the first great punk bass'er that springs to mind is Matt Freeman of Rancid. see what this guy does, and compare it to Greg K.'s efforts. i still think, however, that it all boils down to the fact that the electric bass guitar is still very much in its infancy as far as development goes - people still aren't sure just how exactly to work it into the music, they only know that it needs to be there somewhere. which is an entirely different concept, so i really don't wanna get into it
but if you're listening to Greg's playing thinking, "god this guy RULES !!!" then, hey that's fine, but you're kinda limiting yourself. he's fine, yep - plays in time, occassionally plays something cool. most bassists are like this - solid and functional.
i just can't help thinking there is a lot more that can be done with the bass, and a lot of guys just come straight from guitar, learn a few bass riffs and basic theory and that's all ! i guess some people think these simplistic bassists like (but not limited to
) Greg K. do the bass a disservice. anyway peeps, it's up to you guys. i'm just rambling incoherently.True....thats why I have to love Green Day's bassist. He doesn't try and stand out, but he does some wonderful stuff with what he can do.
Also, Rancid's bass player, gotta love him. I saw him play live yesterday at Warped Tour, god it was awesome.
Also, Rancid's bass player, gotta love him. I saw him play live yesterday at Warped Tour, god it was awesome.
Hey I think this thread was doin fine until people started bashing everything, hey Eric I might not be as good as you but who gives a ****, tone the ego down. And that BS about knowing how good a bassist is by what he listens to is a complete load of SH*T! You can listen to anything and still be good, I happen to think the STP bassist is great and I listen to them, I listen to Dave Matthews Band, hell I even listen to some classical and such, but I also listen to stuff like Blink, Offspring, NOFX. So if I listen to all that how would YOU judge me as a bassist. You sound like a complete ass, how can you judge people you havent even met? And will everyone stop sayin how bad most punk bassists are, if you are all so great why don't you have national fame and lots of cash. I will tell you why, because you probably suck and like to project you are a good bassist over the internet, or because you have just failed to write anything worth while, now that I think about it those reasons are one in the same. O well, this is nothing personal to anybody but someone does need to check his ego size.
let it aaaaaaaall out, dude 
i disagree with you on two counts, bud - firstly, i do concede that the type of music you listen to is a fair indicator of yourself as a musician, which is why so many teenagers dislike jazz and classical music - they don't understand it and thus stick with more simplistic styles (which is not to say that simple = crappy, however). jazz is perhaps the most mature genre of music out there IMHO, and is the basis for all the rock that you probably listen to.
secondly, "making it" has very little to do with your skill as a musician. VERY little. it is almost always a case of being in the right place at the right time, with the right connections. jaco was probably the greatest bassist of all time, and almost every non-musician and even some musicians don't even know who he is - Britney Spears on the other hand ... see my point ? so before you start giving people sh*t about their skill don't bother bringing up "well why haven't YOU made it big, huh mister awesome bass player?" because it's completely irrelevant.
just some cents i found
i disagree with you on two counts, bud - firstly, i do concede that the type of music you listen to is a fair indicator of yourself as a musician, which is why so many teenagers dislike jazz and classical music - they don't understand it and thus stick with more simplistic styles (which is not to say that simple = crappy, however). jazz is perhaps the most mature genre of music out there IMHO, and is the basis for all the rock that you probably listen to. secondly, "making it" has very little to do with your skill as a musician. VERY little. it is almost always a case of being in the right place at the right time, with the right connections. jaco was probably the greatest bassist of all time, and almost every non-musician and even some musicians don't even know who he is - Britney Spears on the other hand ... see my point ? so before you start giving people sh*t about their skill don't bother bringing up "well why haven't YOU made it big, huh mister awesome bass player?" because it's completely irrelevant.
just some cents i found
Alright time to vent:
Kids dont listen to rock and simpler forms of music because they can't conceptualize jazz, its because punk, rock, and rap are hardcore rebellious forms of music, they send an intense message, and rile a kid up, gives them a voice. What music you listen to has very little to do with your talent.
As for atkinson saying bands I happen to like are candy, a term comes to mind when I think of Pearl Jam or Dave Matthews band, and that is ****.
Greg K can play superfast or slow, he knows what fits, and when comparing him to other punk bassists and not ****in Matt Freeman because Freeman is the best bassist in punk, Greg K is in the upper quarter no doubt in my mind, and offspring is an inspiration to everyone because they only picked up their instruments about 13 years ago, spent long days in the garage, and somehow broke through, so lay off of them!
Kids dont listen to rock and simpler forms of music because they can't conceptualize jazz, its because punk, rock, and rap are hardcore rebellious forms of music, they send an intense message, and rile a kid up, gives them a voice. What music you listen to has very little to do with your talent.
As for atkinson saying bands I happen to like are candy, a term comes to mind when I think of Pearl Jam or Dave Matthews band, and that is ****.
Greg K can play superfast or slow, he knows what fits, and when comparing him to other punk bassists and not ****in Matt Freeman because Freeman is the best bassist in punk, Greg K is in the upper quarter no doubt in my mind, and offspring is an inspiration to everyone because they only picked up their instruments about 13 years ago, spent long days in the garage, and somehow broke through, so lay off of them!
You know, it's people like Eric Atkinson and Tones that spread the stereotype of jazz snobs.
OK, I listen to metal. Therefore I suck.
I listen to heavy rock. Therefore I suck.
I listen to a little punk. Therefore I suck.
I listen to hardcore. Therefore I suck.
Is that right?
Grow up, both of you. If you were to take a guitarist or a drummer and let them listen to a bass solo, they wouldn't see the emotional point of it. They might appreciate the solo, but not in the context of the song. Which, at the end of the day, is the most important thing. The song is what you play for, not to see how your solo *ahem* improves it.
As for Greg K., he seems to play for the song. He is "solid and functional'.
BUT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to Eric Atkinson, all bassists should think like drummers.
But what do you look for in a drummer? Functionality and Solidness.
Ergo, a bassist who is solid and functional is closer to a drummer, therefore is a better bassist than someone else. So, by the combined logic of Tones and Eric Atkinson, Greg K. is a better bassist than Jaco.
BTW, in classical, there isn't a drummer OR a guitarist...so all of the 'better' bassists that listen to classical, how do they proceed?
OK, I listen to metal. Therefore I suck.
I listen to heavy rock. Therefore I suck.
I listen to a little punk. Therefore I suck.
I listen to hardcore. Therefore I suck.
Is that right?
Grow up, both of you. If you were to take a guitarist or a drummer and let them listen to a bass solo, they wouldn't see the emotional point of it. They might appreciate the solo, but not in the context of the song. Which, at the end of the day, is the most important thing. The song is what you play for, not to see how your solo *ahem* improves it.
As for Greg K., he seems to play for the song. He is "solid and functional'.
BUT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to Eric Atkinson, all bassists should think like drummers.
But what do you look for in a drummer? Functionality and Solidness.
Ergo, a bassist who is solid and functional is closer to a drummer, therefore is a better bassist than someone else. So, by the combined logic of Tones and Eric Atkinson, Greg K. is a better bassist than Jaco.
BTW, in classical, there isn't a drummer OR a guitarist...so all of the 'better' bassists that listen to classical, how do they proceed?
Actually, there are drums in classical music, such as snares, tom-toms, bass drum, triangle etc.Originally posted by PanteraFan
You know, it's people like Eric Atkinson and Tones that spread the stereotype of jazz snobs.
OK, I listen to metal. Therefore I suck.
I listen to heavy rock. Therefore I suck.
I listen to a little punk. Therefore I suck.
I listen to hardcore. Therefore I suck.
Is that right?
Grow up, both of you. If you were to take a guitarist or a drummer and let them listen to a bass solo, they wouldn't see the emotional point of it. They might appreciate the solo, but not in the context of the song. Which, at the end of the day, is the most important thing. The song is what you play for, not to see how your solo *ahem* improves it.
As for Greg K., he seems to play for the song. He is "solid and functional'.
BUT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to Eric Atkinson, all bassists should think like drummers.
But what do you look for in a drummer? Functionality and Solidness.
Ergo, a bassist who is solid and functional is closer to a drummer, therefore is a better bassist than someone else. So, by the combined logic of Tones and Eric Atkinson, Greg K. is a better bassist than Jaco.
BTW, in classical, there isn't a drummer OR a guitarist...so all of the 'better' bassists that listen to classical, how do they proceed?
And yes, you want a bass player/drummer to be solid but you also want them to be beyond solid. Like Led Zeppelin, everyone in the band is solid, but they can all do outside **** and come back to their solid groove.
In other words, Bush jr. sucks
/lovebown
Hell, I'm just taking the p!ss outta Eric and Tones, and their attitude. You're not arguing with me, I'm stating their opinion.
you're not taking the piss out of anyone, 'coz not for one second did i understand what the f*ck you were talking about. i play in a metal band, buddy - let's get that straight. i sing in that band, too. i have utmost respect for heavy sh*t. ask me for a song and you will receive but i am mature enough to acknowledge the superiority of jazz and the blues, and even though i play bass in a jazz ensemble as well, i don't particularly enjoy listening to jazz music. i do it for the experience of working with a variety of other musicians, learning the ins and outs of the style, the theory associated with it. this is something that you undoubtedly lack - a willingness to acknowledge just where all the heavy stuff you listen to comes from. f*cken blues, man.
so can jazz snobs like me *really* play metal and hardcore ? well i know one who does. Ryknow.
but i am mature enough to acknowledge the superiority of jazz and the blues, and even though i play bass in a jazz ensemble as well, i don't particularly enjoy listening to jazz music. i do it for the experience of working with a variety of other musicians, learning the ins and outs of the style, the theory associated with it. this is something that you undoubtedly lack - a willingness to acknowledge just where all the heavy stuff you listen to comes from. f*cken blues, man. so can jazz snobs like me *really* play metal and hardcore ? well i know one who does. Ryknow.
eric atkinson
"Is our children learning "Is our teachers teachin
Hey i admitt i do listen to alot of jazz but hey i also listen to alot of heavy stuff to! And man i never ever said that dave mathews band was candy! Noooo way carter is one of the best damn drummers in the main scene now! There was a point in my life that i thought that guys like the dude in offspring was kinda alright but after many years playing out and having small garage bands open for us that i think most of them could take on the offspring! Give them a few grand and a studio for a few months and you would have about the same thing. Someone said somthing about led zepplin and he was correct but that was a diff time in music all together. There wasnt too many bands like offspring back then. It was a time that musician were gods at there task! Think of all the bands out there that had great guys in them. Think of bass players that played in bands like zepplin,crosby stills and nash,black sabbath,jeff beck,cream, those were awsome bass players for rock! We dont have many great bass players for rock these days they are all poor musicians but what do you do all they great bass players are doing crap like setting at home and bieng on there comps! Hell there are plenty here! The music industry doesnt like musician that think for themeselfs they want droids to do as they ask. Thats why the few bands that are great that make it never apear in mags or mtv (phish) Put if you think about the 70s even the pop music had great bass players like chicago,jefferson airplane,3 dog night. Now look at pop its all generated on a comp!
And dude trust me i dont have a ego problem at all! I think i could stand my ground but i will always know that iam not a great bass player! But what i consider to be a great bass player and what you do are 2 diff things! And as far as you dont have millions of dollers and huge stages thats totally fine with me dude! We play in front of a few hundred once a month and i like it that way! Id rather play in front of 5 people that really love what i am doing and understand it rather than tons of kids that really are just there to party and could care less what band os in front of them! And dont ever think that the best bass players are somthing you would ever here on the radio dude you have to go looking for them! Check out some jazz clubs the smaller the better! You will someday run into some 50 year old fat bald black dude that has on overalls playing in some local jazz club that will stomp all your heros butts to the ground and he is in kansas city!
And dude trust me i dont have a ego problem at all! I think i could stand my ground but i will always know that iam not a great bass player! But what i consider to be a great bass player and what you do are 2 diff things! And as far as you dont have millions of dollers and huge stages thats totally fine with me dude! We play in front of a few hundred once a month and i like it that way! Id rather play in front of 5 people that really love what i am doing and understand it rather than tons of kids that really are just there to party and could care less what band os in front of them! And dont ever think that the best bass players are somthing you would ever here on the radio dude you have to go looking for them! Check out some jazz clubs the smaller the better! You will someday run into some 50 year old fat bald black dude that has on overalls playing in some local jazz club that will stomp all your heros butts to the ground and he is in kansas city!
eric atkinson
"Is our children learning "Is our teachers teachin
Hehe sorry i didnt do spell check! Iam to damn lazy tonight! Just got back from playing a show! And iam about to die. The air ws down in the club as it was so freaking hot that i thought i was going to pass out! There was like 150 people there and they would not turn off the stage lights! Ahhhh i hate stage lights!
Eric, that's a fair enough answer.
Tones, it's not my fault you can't understand your own logic. You seem to think that a certain genre will always be better than one of it's offspring genres, because it was the original. Just because something may be musically superior does not make it a superior form of music. I've never heard any jazz songs that are politically or idealogically awakening, whereas I've heard plenty of metal and rock songs that do.
By your logic, the videogame Pong would be better than something like Tekken 4/Gran Turismo 3/Shen Mue whatever, just because it was the first, and without it there would be no other types of videogame.
I appreciate jazz and blues for their technical superiority. But that isn't all there is to music.
Tones, it's not my fault you can't understand your own logic. You seem to think that a certain genre will always be better than one of it's offspring genres, because it was the original. Just because something may be musically superior does not make it a superior form of music. I've never heard any jazz songs that are politically or idealogically awakening, whereas I've heard plenty of metal and rock songs that do.
By your logic, the videogame Pong would be better than something like Tekken 4/Gran Turismo 3/Shen Mue whatever, just because it was the first, and without it there would be no other types of videogame.
I appreciate jazz and blues for their technical superiority. But that isn't all there is to music.
i'm talking about music, not about f*cking videogames, ya geek . you'd think someone who listens to Pantera obsessively would be a little less high-strung, eh ? anyway, i'm talking about acknowledging your roots, pong boy - Meshuggah and Nothingface blair out of my house at stupidly high volume levels 24/7, and until recently i used to completely discount the existent of jazz and the blues because *i* thought it was boring, and couldn't quite fathom why someone would willingly listen to it. delving a little deeper i found that it was the basis for what i love to headbang to, so excuse my respect and admiration for it. jaco was the same - i used to listen to this crazy spanish guy playing sh*tloads of notes at crazy tempos and just think, "man, this sucks. he's just playing whatever and calling it a bass line." after i got my theory up to scratch and started understanding just exactly _what_ jaco was playing and why, my musical appreciation went nuts. the most interesting thing about jazz IMO is that it's cool to listen to not because of the music, but because it tests the listener's ability to understand why everything is being played the way it is, it's like reading an abstract novel or something.
listening to Manson just gives me a headache
i just think some people sadly neglect this influence... and those who don't are superlative musicians - Ryknow comes from a background of playing jazz/fusion for many years, and because of this influence he has implemented the bass in the genre of "metal" in a way that has never been seen before.
. you'd think someone who listens to Pantera obsessively would be a little less high-strung, eh ? anyway, i'm talking about acknowledging your roots, pong boy - Meshuggah and Nothingface blair out of my house at stupidly high volume levels 24/7, and until recently i used to completely discount the existent of jazz and the blues because *i* thought it was boring, and couldn't quite fathom why someone would willingly listen to it. delving a little deeper i found that it was the basis for what i love to headbang to, so excuse my respect and admiration for it. jaco was the same - i used to listen to this crazy spanish guy playing sh*tloads of notes at crazy tempos and just think, "man, this sucks. he's just playing whatever and calling it a bass line." after i got my theory up to scratch and started understanding just exactly _what_ jaco was playing and why, my musical appreciation went nuts. the most interesting thing about jazz IMO is that it's cool to listen to not because of the music, but because it tests the listener's ability to understand why everything is being played the way it is, it's like reading an abstract novel or something. listening to Manson just gives me a headache
i just think some people sadly neglect this influence... and those who don't are superlative musicians - Ryknow comes from a background of playing jazz/fusion for many years, and because of this influence he has implemented the bass in the genre of "metal" in a way that has never been seen before.
Originally posted by *ToNeS*
i'm talking about music, not about f*cking videogames, ya geek
listening to Manson just gives me a headache
i just think some people sadly neglect this influence... and those who don't are superlative musicians - Ryknow comes from a background of playing jazz/fusion for many years, and because of this influence he has implemented the bass in the genre of "metal" in a way that has never been seen before.
Actually no offense, you probaby don't understand what jaco was playing and why.
And no Ryknow is not some extreme sensation.
Other than that, you are right.
/lovebown
Originally posted by *ToNeS*
i'm talking about music, not about f*cking videogames, ya geek
It's called an analogy. Look it up.
That's a stereotype. Why am I suddenly like everyone else who listens to Pantera?
First of all, I don't 'pong', again you are assuming things about me and trying to elevate yourself in the eyes of others. Again, my analogy stands. Yes, I appreciate that rock derived from blues. Does that make blues better for everyone to listen to? No. It may be technically superior, but whether it is emotionally superior or not is an individual thing. Just because a piece of music shows technical skill, it is not better than a piece that has little technicality, but completes its purpose. I know many people on this board who would agree that Mark King's slapping is overused. Is a Mark King song therefore better than Bohemian Rhapsody, because Mark's playing contains slapping? NO.
As said by lovebown, you probably know nothing about Jaco's reasoning. Neither do I. The fact is, I haven't wasted energy in trying to decipher his motivation, cos frankly his stuff doesn't do anything for me. I'd rather listen to something that moves me AND displays good bass playing, not sitting there and slogging through arpeggios, scales and solos, just so I can falsely call myself a better player after listening to it.
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