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Ohm/Watts help needed

#21
Downunderwonder said:
This is a good plan. Any of the modern gigawatt, I mean 800w, micro amps can give the 8 ohm 410 tower a good push, should be plenty loud with ''only 500w''.

If I am reading between lines properly OP has only bought the two tens so far?
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely

The efficiency of these Eden drivers
Is very high. Doesn't take much power to light them up. And most 4x10s only realistically do 330ish watts. That's big push. Realistically only about 200 ish watts on average will cover a room.

Likewise with 4 of them, plenty stage volume for many situations. And plenty room to EQ

They do fine in small ported boxes.
But if you stick to the old basic rule thumb with 10" drivers. 1 cubic foot per driver or 28 liters and tune good ol 50hz.

Bammo you got ported 2x10 woo hoo.
No farting around with tweets, plenty of highs n lows.

Kinda pointless to try n match a 3.2 ish cubic foot 15 to it. Another matching pair of ported 10s will thump along fine. Give room for EQ. Just pair of boxes, with 2 slot ports each at about 2.6...2.8 ish cubic feet to give room for port space /driver.

4 vertically Eden drivers swaying away. I'm sure 80% of players would find that setup pretty sweet. Meaning alot players don't think or even comprehend how much potential the higher quality cast frame ceramics still dish out
 
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#22
BogeyBass said:
Oh absolutely

The efficiency of these Eden drivers
Is very high. Doesn't take much power to light them up. And most 4x10s only realistically do 330ish watts. That's big push. Realistically only about 200 ish watts on average will cover a room.

Likewise with 4 of them, plenty stage volume for many situations. And plenty room to EQ

They do fine in small ported boxes.
But if you stick to the old basic rule thumb with 10" drivers. 1 cubic foot per driver or 28 liters and tune good ol 50hz.

Bammo you got ported 2x10 woo hoo.
No farting around with tweets, plenty of highs n lows.

Kinda pointless to try n match a 3.2 ish cubic foot 15 to it. Another matching pair of ported 10s will thump along fine. Give room for EQ. Just pair of boxes, with 2 slot ports each at about 2.6...2.8 ish cubic feet to give room for port space /driver.

4 vertically Eden drivers swaying away. I'm sure 80% of players would find that setup pretty sweet. Meaning alot players don't think or even comprehend how much potential the higher quality cast frame ceramics still dish out
Click to expand...
He has Eminence drivers.
 
#23
Downunderwonder said:
He has Eminence drivers.
Click to expand...

Yes correct, the CA1059
Is modeled after the special design eminence speakers used by Eden.

Take for instance the stamped steel drivers used by Ampeg. They use low cost stamped basket and smaller 30 ounce magnets. And have sensitivity of 91/92 ish dB

Eden used a higher quality more expensive cast frame basket. Likewise a huge 59 ounce magnet to maintain higher sensitivity. Around 97/98 dB

When eveybody talked poop and said it's impossible to have a 104dB 4x10 cabinet. It was no BS. Now anybody can buy these things. As in before unavailable special design speaker. You had to just buy the Eden cabinets.

Basically a 1x10 is louder than most 2x10
So if you have 4 of them the sensitivity is incredible high. It takes alot less watts to get to the SPL most players need. And it's not a muddy boomy driver unlike some other well known ported 10" cabs that use cheapo speakers...cough cough (Ampeg)
 
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#24
So actually, if the OP turns up again, he might be well advised to start by putting his pair of drivers in a ported vertical 2*10, with them wired parallel for 4ohm, and see how things go, because due to the high sensitivity the actual delivered dbs are going to approach those of a sealed 4*10 anyway?
Amp wise if he picks something that is safe running into 2 ohms he could then add a 4ohm 1*15 or a second 2x10 later if he feels the need?
 
#25
JimChjones said:
So actually, if the OP turns up again, he might be well advised to start by putting his pair of drivers in a ported vertical 2*10, with them wired parallel for 4ohm, and see how things go, because due to the high sensitivity the actual delivered dbs are going to approach those of a sealed 4*10 anyway?
Amp wise if he picks something that is safe running into 2 ohms he could then add a 4ohm 1*15 or a second 2x10 later if he feels the need?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't'. Running a full enchilada 500w into 2x10 is a good way to have a bad day. The 500w RMS of the cab is still only a thermal number.
 
#26
White: 410 cab Legend CA1059
Yellow: 410 cab Deltalite II 2510

1 Watt system input power
upload_2019-1-18_20-57-16.png





White: 410 cab Legend CA1059
Yellow: 410 cab B&C 10HPL51

1 Watt system input power
upload_2019-1-18_20-58-7.png






210 cab Legend CA1059 Xmax excursion limits

input power 425 Watts
upload_2019-1-18_20-59-5.png


Its good practice to protect woofers from transient (subharmonic) noise with a high steep HPF which is set to 45..50Hz.
 
#29
ok, I try to demonstrate what happens for similar SPL consideration around 90Hz for both drivers.

deltalite II 2510 SPL at ~90 Hz for 425 watt input power
126.5dB
upload_2019-1-18_22-58-42.png




CA1059 input power for 126.5dB at ~90Hz
560 Watt
upload_2019-1-18_23-0-39.png


CA1059 cone excursion for 126.5dB at ~90Hz
upload_2019-1-18_23-2-19.png
 
#30
#31
Downunderwonder said:
So the 1059 would generate less low end before fart out?
Click to expand...
Uhm, nope.
The CA1059 needs some more of power to push the same SPL at the range "round about" 90Hz.
And just the same way exceeds Xmax in a similar way like it happens for the deltalite II 2510 but, the 2510 does exactly the same thing with 425 watts.


Sinusoidal waveform considerations are (most often) cracy things and can lead to misleadings.

cab modellings are nothing but Sinusoidal waveform considerations cause the plots we read on paper are derived with a sine sweep.

Fortunatelly musical instruments do rarely (respectively do never) push all the power into a smallish bandwidth round about (for example) 90Hz.
We have a high power density at the lows but we also can recognice decent "power" north of 100Hz. So if we push 500 Watt (1000 watt peak) into the cab system we have to consider HOW the power is spread to the lows and to the mids and to the top end.
If we do notice some overexcursion with a cab modelling does (almost always) not mean that we have got overexcusion in real practice with the bass guitar cause the power will be "spread".
The way how the power will be spread along the total bandwidth depends on very many factors. EQ setting, playing style and playing technique, music genre, personal condition, and yes even personal condition is a factor that matters.
 
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#32
@The Derwood

if I was in your shoes I'd complement the 210 CA1059 with an EVM 15B.

Very good efficience with the EVM 15B just to compete well with an (mids) efficient 210 cab 4 Ohm
The "bigger cone" of the EVM 15B would provide extended low end.
(edit, at least in this constellation it is all true that a bigger cone makes more of bass)

Phase response does accomplish well to the CA1059.
Roll off shape looks very similar on both.
Matching filter "Q" alignment predicts "even" control of each driver by the amplifier.

Total (really save) power handling of the system 210+115 ~600..700 Watt RMS

Drawbacks
2.7 Ohm nominal impedance
EVM 15B is out of production and available only as used item. May be there is a low cost chance to recone a damaged 15L to make it a 15B?
 
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#33
Hey Everyone!

Thanks so much for the help. I wasn't getting notifications people were responding so I was under the impression it went unanswered. I confirmed the speakers were in fact, 8 ohms and 500 watts each. So I think I'll scrap the 15" for now. This community is great and I'm very thankful. I hope everyone has a great day.
 

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