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ohms and cabs and not enough noise

I run a line 6 low down 400 into a 4 x 10 trace cab. the amp says 400w at 4 ohms and the cab is 8 ohms. am i right in thinking its essentially 200w at 8 ohms and that’s why i can’t keep up with the guitarists 30w orange? Ive turned up the upper mids and its like im not in the room. You can feel me a bit better 3 m away.


im thinking of putting in a pa head with a separate pre amp or just going out of the direct out from the low down into a pa head. the cab says 300 w on it so i guess i should not push my luck with it.


https://68.media.tumblr.com/4358383416ad799807de3f847341ae94/tumblr_omlrmbWJtv1rdp974o1_540.jpg
 
If you add the same 4x10 cab to your rig, you will gain around 3db just by doubling the sound sources, and possibly another 3db by dropping the resistance to the 4ohms your amp wants to see, effectively doubling the available power.
OR
place the guitar amp on a stand, right next the guitarists skull, and see if he can't hear himself better then.
 
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I run a line 6 low down 400 into a 4 x 10 trace cab. the amp says 400w at 4 ohms and the cab is 8 ohms. am i right in thinking its essentially 200w at 8 ohms and that’s why i can’t keep up with the guitarists 30w orange? Ive turned up the upper mids and its like im not in the room. You can feel me a bit better 3 m away.


im thinking of putting in a pa head with a separate pre amp or just going out of the direct out from the low down into a pa head. the cab says 300 w on it so i guess i should not push my luck with it.


https://68.media.tumblr.com/4358383416ad799807de3f847341ae94/tumblr_omlrmbWJtv1rdp974o1_540.jpg

As you don't play mixed cabs there is no way to figure mixed cabs as an sound/loudness issue although your sound description of loss in self-assertion versus 30watt guitar lets assume pretty nicely phase issues.
Just the way how it is often referenced by TB science folks
I think if you were actually playing a mixed rig with same issue the answers you'd get were totally different.

May be you want EQ more mids especially low-mids to make your power amplifier more efficient soundwise.
Excessive scooped sounds may make power amplifiers less efficient regarding available average power anyway.
 
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OR
place the guitar amp on a stand, right next the guitarists skull, and see if he can't hear himself better then.
Cheapest and best solution.

Guitarists usually stand right in front of their amps and turn them up so they can hear themselves with the side effect of deafening anyone stood across from their amp and swamping the bass. They don't seem to realise that knees and lower legs don't have particularly good hearing abilities.

Next option is IEMs with good isolating buds with just your bass in them so you can hear yourself at a sensible volume. Let's face it, your guitarist doesn't want to hear you otherwise he would turn the .... down.

Joking aside, look after your hearing. You only get one set of ears and once you have blown them out that is it. (Don't ask how I know this.)
 
Guitarists usually stand right in front of their amps and turn them up so they can hear themselves with the side effect of deafening anyone stood across from their amp and swamping the bass. They don't seem to realise that knees and lower legs don't have particularly good hearing abilities.
Guitar amplifiers do a lot of noise that interferes with the very essential 2nd Harmonic of our bass guitar.
In addition every stroke of a string generates a wide spectrum that easily covers bandwith way below a Fundamental.
As guitar players often like it to have some 'bassy' feel at least at string stroke (the attack) there is always some contradiction with the bass guitar.

Another consideration is caused by some modulation of frequencies that is physically (naturally) located below 0Hz.
Dependent on envelope of a note playing there is, more or less, additional spectrums generated above and below the funadamental that contribute to the sound. The mirror spectrum that appears below Fundamental is actually the spectrum that belongs to frequencies below (0-f)Hz for a sustained note at (0+f)Hz Fundamental.

With MI instruments there are some additional spectrums audible caused by the envelope that are inaudible for steady signals. Additional spectrums do not exist for steady signals,
Transient spectrums may be roughly considered kinda f<0Hz for any chords/notes/tones/sine spectrum which then come first into play like a 'transformed' f>0 only for transients (or envelopes).
Hope that's clear,
sorry, couldn't resist after undergo a bashing thread.
(Some science folks may got better what he desereved)

every 6-string does generate a lot of noise/spectrum below the fundamentals so besides loudness it's a good idea to EQ the 6-string first before doing any total loudness considerations. I'd hate it it to make a 6-string player unhappy due to pure sound versus loudness issues.
If everybody lefts some space in frequency bandwith and playing technique skills of the instrument as well then there is space for every musician to play.
 
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Guitar amplifiers do a lot of noise that interferes with the very essential 2nd Harmonic of our bass guitar.
In addition every stroke of a string generates a wide spectrum that easily covers bandwith way below a Fundamental.
As guitar players often like it to have some 'bassy' feel at least at string stroke (the attack) there is always some contradiction with the bass guitar.

Another consideration is caused by some modulation of frequencies that is physically (naturally) located below 0Hz.
Dependent on envelope of a note playing there is, more or less, additional spectrums generated above and below the funadamental that contribute to the sound. The mirror spectrum that appears below Fundamental is actually the spectrum that belongs to frequencies below (0-f)Hz for a sustained note at (0+f)Hz Fundamental.

With MI instruments there are some additional spectrums audible caused by the envelope that are inaudible for steady signals. Additional spectrums do not exist for steady signals,
Transient spectrums may be roughly considered kinda f<0Hz for any chords/notes/tones/sine spectrum which then come first into play like a 'transformed' f>0 only for transients (or envelopes).
Hope that's clear,
sorry, couldn't resist after undergo a bashing thread.
(Some science folks may got better what he desereved)

every 6-string does generate a lot of noise/spectrum below the fundamentals so besides loudness it's a good idea to EQ the 6-string first before doing any total loudness considerations. I'd hate it it to make a 6-string player unhappy due to pure sound versus loudness issues.
If everybody lefts some space in frequency bandwith and playing technique skills of the instrument as well then there is space for every musician to play.
Wut?
 
...place the guitar amp on a stand, right next the guitarists skull, and see if he can't hear himself better then.

Or, maybe it's the bass cab that needs to be on a stand, or otherwise oriented so OP can hear himself better. He said that "You can feel me a bit better 3 m away," which makes me wonder if maybe he's the one whose cabinet is blasting the backs of his knees.
 
It's something that happens with every modulation, RF engineers who know one or two things about modulation know well about this 'mirror' effect.
A similar effect is caused by the envelope of transients. These envelopes equal roughly an exponential function and come naturally with any kinds of audio signals. No, it's not a steady sine that equals audio.
On pro PA and audio engineering forums these effects are discussed in a more serious science way rather than call it commedian gossip.
Normally I don't respond to those 'artefacts' on MI forums cause it widely transcends generic plane level (science) knowledge of phase discussions.
Not sure those 'contradictions' can be limited to German MI forums only.
 
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Name a German comedian. None come to mind? Now you know one.
Exactly WHY in general it's more sensible to better suppress what's going on under the hood.
And, in general there is no need for average musicians to understand profound science for playing music but, IMHO it's overbearing at least to equal profound science as comedian entertainment.
Blindness can't be a sufficient proof for there is nothing.
 
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Sounds below 0Hz? Is that like time travel? Negative cycles per second?


For the OP's question, I had this issue and got another 8ohm cabinet to get the 4ohm load on the amp. Louder. I'd also consider changing EQ so it cuts through better.
 
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Or, maybe it's the bass cab that needs to be on a stand, or otherwise oriented so OP can hear himself better. He said that "You can feel me a bit better 3 m away," which makes me wonder if maybe he's the one whose cabinet is blasting the backs of his knees.
It's anyway good practice to lift the bass cab somewhat from floor just to balance response and loudness more evenly versus distance to the cab.
Either way it makes me a little bit wondering how a smallish 30watt combo can easily surpass a 410 bass cabinet powered by around 200..300watt.
An adverse EQ'ing of the bass guitar AND adverse EQ'ing of the 30 watt combo may be ONE possibility of reason.
Besides proper EQ'ing a HPF for the bass guitar helps to suppress lowish transient noise and unwanted lowish frequency content caused by modulation effects (see German 'entertainment gossip' above).
A HPF helps to tighten the sound of the bass guitar anyway.
 
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