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Not a very scientific response, but to humor you the OP has a toy that isn't working for him. He came here asking for help to get it back working. He was looking for practical answers.
I am very pro science. Not that it matters because science IMHO is provable fact and that's all that I need to know.
The science does not change because of how I feel about it. So the question is moot. If how I felt about science had any impact, then it wouldn't be real science would it?
Beyond that I do not wish to be drawn into a discussion that might be contrary to strongly held beliefs of others.
If you don't want to answer my question I've been asking, then please just say so.
Being pro science I should be seeking the truth, right?
So there must be a true answer to my question, right?
How does a discussion of j operators help the OP get his toys back? That's the truth I seek.
The first two posts by ThisBass were to the very point of helping and making suggestions to resolve the problem described by the OP. The "discussion" went downhill with the rude and inappropriate post by Downunderwonder:
"Name a German comedian. None come to mind? Now you know one."
And thank you for deciding for the OP what he finds useful or not.
Can you make head and tail from This Bass's posting on sub zero frequency? No? Were you part of the other thread where he claimed maths proves you cannot hear a sine? Also no? Then you can have no basis to criticize my conclusion he is just here for a laugh.
It doesn't matter what is or has been going on between the two of you or if I can understand what ThisBass is trying to say. Remarks like that are inappropriate! You are are slandering a country and him.
And to your last snide remark. I'm very sure that ThisBass is not here to be funny. Maybe you should hold back with your criticism and understand that English is not his first language.
And to your last snide remark. I'm very sure that ThisBass is not here to be funny. Maybe you should hold back with your criticism and understand that English is not his first language.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPS LOCK AND BOLD UNDERLINED ITALIC AND THESE THINGS "!!!!!!!!!"
I've posted rude remarks on TB in the past. I feel bad afterwards, so I try to avoid it. Some people feel good afterwards, so they do it all the time. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's hurtful. Bars and clubs tend to self moderate in these matters and routine offenders stand out with their "Z" shaped nose.
No, nothing at all.Does that mean I've been playing imaginary j bass all this time?
Like nobody wants playing an imaginary phaser effect pedal all the time although phase is everywhere.
edit,
I have a p/j bass, the j for imaginary, the p for phase.
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I have a p/j. Good playing on my part is imaginary any way you cut it.Does that mean I've been playing imaginary j bass all this time?
In post #10 I told something about 'efficient' EQ'ing of the bass guitar and what it means to the 'available' power.
There is also some information that the absence of phase issues does not automatically mean there must be NO issue.
Post #12 was meant to show the significance of 'proper' EQ'ing a 6-string and 'side-effects' which may affect the total mix. If there is no interest to read something about the science stuff WHY these side-effects happen is indifferent IMHO.
Eventually for any musician (respectively bass player) it's more important to know that these 'effects' do exist and may be an issue.
Proper EQ'ing of the 6-string helps to keep these effects to an acceptable minimum, just to get a good total mix of the band.
While for bass guitar it's good practice to eliminate these 'artefacts' with a HPF anyway there is usually no HPF for a 6-string.
IME a 6-string which is EQ'd too bassy interferes the total mix mostly at stringstroke.
While each instrument on it's own may sound pleasant to the ears it may happen there are to many interferncies in the mix, caused by (sub-) frequencies derived from 'modulation' effect of a signals envelope.
The -f consideration is nothing special with modulation thus has nothing to do with personal beliefs.
The German version of wikiwand Bandwidth (Signal Processing) shows a couple of examples where mirror spectrum is shown for ω<0
Invalid Link Removed
You may also read wikipedia, see Spectrum Fig.2
Amplitude modulation - Wikipedia
Unfortunatelly I addressed by default profound skills to those folks who frequently argue with 'science'.
As the ω<0 thing seems to be impossible to match someones belief the 'j' example was meant as an simple example that in science sometimes things appear as an 'impossible' property.
Just thought it's clear that 'J' is the magnitude to predict phase (which is very often discussed on TB). Obviously all of my thinking was way to optimistic.
Addressed to the OP's problem, again, adversely EQ'ing of a 6-string may interfere bass sound in the total mix. No more, no less.
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-NOTE: I deleted my initial response because It contained other quotes that I didn't intend to address here.
I belive you have attributed the German Comedian comment to be something that I said.
I did not make that comment.
I hold no sway over what the OP decides what is useful or not.
That being said, how is it that you deciding what IS right for the OP is any different?
OK. I conceed that you did mention EQ in several post. I appologize for implying that you didn't.
You lost me at "below 0 Hz." And judging by a few other responses I wasn't the only one.
Now you didn't loose me because of imaginary numbers or modulation, you lost me because it seemed that while you are capable of hanging with the best of scientist, you might not understand how to present the information in a way that might be useful to the target audience. Yes it was a very interesting discussion from a purely scientific or academic standpoint, but how does it relate to help fixing the OPs problem?
Then in an attempt to further back your argument, you post references. That is a very scholarly thing to do. However, you didn't consider that the first reference is in German. How does that help?
As far as the other reference? Well allow me my arrogance then.
I hold two of the highest classes of FCC licenses that can be issued to individuals in the US.
I have worked as a broadcast technician for over 40 years.
I think I know "a thing or two about Amplitude Modulation."
And yet, for the life of me, I don't know how the discussion of AM would be helpful in fixing the sort of problem asked of by the OP.
Question. Who here in this thread is arguing with science?
Perhaps you could cite references?
I don't think anyone had a problem here with science, but rather that it's use was misplaced.
It kind of like asking someone where they are from and having that person start by discussing the origin of the universe.
I did appreciate though that you blamed the guitarist for our problems.
Now if you can tell us how to fire the drummer, then it will all be good.
I appologize for posting in a way to academical way.
Note in post #53 I wrote:
"Eventually for any musician (respectively bass player) it's more important to know that these 'effects' do exist and may be an issue."
The words 'more importent' in the meaning of, listen to the total sound if there is an 'issue' that might be easily fixed with EQ adjustment.
My fault I didn't mention you want selcet English language to read the text, however the pics are shown only in the German text version.
Just to avoid an academic discussion, to explain these sorts of problems with simple words. Instruments can generate lots of frequencies below lowest tuning. Improper EQ'ing may cause nasty interference with sound of other, lower tuned instruments .
Actually nobody did it in this thread. The fact it is done in countless different threads don't gives me any right to indirectly reference it here in this thread. That's bad style.
In one of my earlier bands the guitarist played a 50 watt 112" combo. His sound goal was pretty bassy and the combo standed at floor ground. No way to convince him that his EQ choice and floor coupling 12" speaker pushed me into some 'interference' troubles. You may imagine how tricky it may be to compete with a smallish yelling cube even with 212 and svt head.I did appreciate though that you blamed the guitarist for our problems.
Now if you can tell us how to fire the drummer, then it will all be good.
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I am aware that you didn't make that comment.
I am not deciding anything for the OP. Where was I supposed to be doing that?
Edit: parts were delete for attributing something Mr Bander did not say.
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I normally don't respond to technical arguments on this forum but as a retired MS BSEE RF engineer with 40 years of design experience. there has been alot of confusion in this thread. there is no such thing as a freguency below 0 hz unless you want to talkabout DC. the german Invalid Link Removed does not show any frequency below 0 the horizontal axis is in omega not hz. the 0's in this article are the baseband signal or the single note frequency played on the bass. the omega is the modulation width.... and yes there are artifacts that are +f and -f. I have no desire to turn this into a discussion of basic modulation theory or the combinations of the fourier series of 2 or more combined notes on guitars and basses as that is a complicated mathmatical exercise. Probably not useful for the OP's discussion.
Tom-g,
You're an OK guy in my book, but I think we are just not going to be able to see eye-to-eye on this.
First, I did not engage in the name calling that went on here.
A person on TB was made fun of based in part on their heritage. That was all kinds of wrong and I don't condone those actions.
Just because I share one side of an argument with another person does not make me responsible for what someone else may say in the course of that argument. I don't appreciate being put in the same boat for that reason.
They way I see it. By taking a stand in defense of the OP, but against what I felt would be helpful to him, requires one to take a stand for what IS helpful to the OP. I suspect you saw the mirror image, phase cancelling, thing in my statement about what the OP didn't need and read that to be the same as stating what he did need. So in a way we were both in that same boat, just paddling in opposite directions with neither of us getting anywhere. It is really not the business of any of us to decide things like this for another. My position however was not so much pro what the OP needed, but rather against what he didn't need. Yes that is a very fine distinction, but IMO a distinction all the same.
This Bass admitted that what he posted was not intended to help the OP.
I should have left it at that.
My other concern after re-reading a lot of this is that we may have just blown the OP clear out of the water with our massive thread drift. (More like a hard U-Turn)
I hope I'm wrong but given that he has been absent the conversation since his original post, I am concerned.
It seems none of us were on our best behavior in this go-a-round.
I for one, would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the asix for any of my contributions to this thread that may have caused him to turn away. I'm sorry.
Sincerely OGB
I am very sorry to put you in boat you don't belong in. I had mistakenly attributed the reply of Downunderwonder to my first post to you. Sorry for that!
It's much easier talking to people face to face.
