• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Oiling the fingeboard

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. I do way more repair work than customer builds, the same is true for most builders. That's like saying someone that a carpenter that builds new houses would not be qualified to replace some rotten siding, because he only builds new houses.

While this may be the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard, let's chalk it up to misunderstanding what was written.

Someone who repairs and builds has a different mindset than one who builds exclusively. They are typically coming from a repair background and will view building from that standpoint. Those who only build are not faced with solving the problems that repair personnel face, like the effects of time and tension, to say nothing of misuse and abuse, or of simple neglect. Builders don't have to remedy crushed lumber under truss rod nuts, broken truss rods, ski jumps, back bows or gross front bows, or the myriad other ills that befall instruments in the field. The list is too exhaustive to print even here.

Ask Martin or Fender. They are in the repair business only out of necessity. It is not a profit center. Rather, it is a giant money pit. The people who do the repair work in those factories have special skills that the average production worker does not possess. The factory is not going to spend the money to train them in these skills unless they are destined for the repair department. It is possible that some of the production folks may pick up some tips from the repair people, or may have an interest in the subject, but they are either exceptions to the rule or destined to transfer into the warranty department. This is true of all manufacturing. It's simple economics: They can't make money fixing the stuff that should have been right when it went out the door. That includes a piece of lumber that decides to behave in a manner not consistent with it's design and milling.

It is not like saying that a carpenter who builds new houses would not be qualified to replace some rotten siding. He may be. But if he's never done it before he is likely to find hidden damage that he might not have been expecting. He may also find that when he has completed the job that he has no desire to do this kind of work again. That decision might be motivated by the dirt or the difficulty. Or it may be that they do not like putting in the amount of time for the reward of the end product.

Take the average carpenter coming out of tech school. He can layout, frame, and install with the best of them. However, put him on a remodeling crew and he is constantly amazed at what he finds doing demolition on an interior that has be remodeled three times before he started pulling plaster. In a year or two he will develop x-ray vision. At that point he'll likely be running his own crew. He will also tell you that building new houses is a piece of pumpkin pie in comparison to day to day in the home improvement industry.

Granted, the small builder may have both skills. But that is a function of the economic necessity. When one starts building and selling instruments they cannot expect to be able to make a living doing so. They learn to do some repair work while refining their designs.

Building is easier than repair work. Once the design is in place it is rote. Repair work involves problem solving on a daily basis. It is also true that after doing repair work for a long time that work becomes much easier. It is also true that something is bound to cross the bench that will cause head scratching, reaching for repair manuals, and maybe a call to others with whom we network. As someone who both builds and repairs, you already know that.

Respectfully submitted.
 
Hi
I want to ask the experts if it is necessary to apply fretboard conditioner (freboard oil) on the rosewood fingerboard to a new old stock Fender Precision Highway One which I recently purchased.The instrument was in a shop for almost 7 years.

Clearly you didn't search for any of the very long threads on this topic.

My answer, as has been posted ad nauseam in umpty earlier threads: No fingerboard needs to be oiled. I agree that it changes the look of the neck in a pleasing way.

If you want a justification for doing it, here it is..and please note the limits on what you should do.

Oiling the board is unnecessary but it sure does look good. If done occasionally shouldn't hurt anything. When done often and/or to excess, it will cause the wood to soften in the fret slots. This can cause frets to come loose.

Wise words! (As usual.)
 
Profound. Please elaborate.

Riis


A list of misguided protocols would take up a lot of bandwidth. You've seen some of them. Punky fret slots from over use of oil. Broken truss rods from hamfisted fisted repairs. (No one ever admits to that one. "It was like that...") Buggered up truss rod nuts that prevented the aforementioned broken truss rod that is now nearly impossible to remove. The guitar that cannot be adjusted to proper relief after seventy two hours of a quarter turn a day. (That one is a money maker for the repair guys if there ever was one.) Same goes for lack of witness points, improperly filed nuts and saddle notches and their effect on intonation, and a plethora of other simple tasks. How about popped frets when someone forces a back bow to take the tension off the truss rod? The list goes on. As does the head shaking and the occasional guffaw, all done privately.

While those who do repair work might not see these individual maladies every day, during the course of a month's time they'll see a few like them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx
While this may be the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard, let's chalk it up to misunderstanding what was written.

Someone who repairs and builds has a different mindset than one who builds exclusively. They are typically coming from a repair background and will view building from that standpoint. Those who only build are not faced with solving the problems that repair personnel face, like the effects of time and tension, to say nothing of misuse and abuse, or of simple neglect. Builders don't have to remedy crushed lumber under truss rod nuts, broken truss rods, ski jumps, back bows or gross front bows, or the myriad other ills that befall instruments in the field. The list is too exhaustive to print even here.

Ask Martin or Fender. They are in the repair business only out of necessity. It is not a profit center. Rather, it is a giant money pit. The people who do the repair work in those factories have special skills that the average production worker does not possess. The factory is not going to spend the money to train them in these skills unless they are destined for the repair department. It is possible that some of the production folks may pick up some tips from the repair people, or may have an interest in the subject, but they are either exceptions to the rule or destined to transfer into the warranty department. This is true of all manufacturing. It's simple economics: They can't make money fixing the stuff that should have been right when it went out the door. That includes a piece of lumber that decides to behave in a manner not consistent with it's design and milling.

It is not like saying that a carpenter who builds new houses would not be qualified to replace some rotten siding. He may be. But if he's never done it before he is likely to find hidden damage that he might not have been expecting. He may also find that when he has completed the job that he has no desire to do this kind of work again. That decision might be motivated by the dirt or the difficulty. Or it may be that they do not like putting in the amount of time for the reward of the end product.

Take the average carpenter coming out of tech school. He can layout, frame, and install with the best of them. However, put him on a remodeling crew and he is constantly amazed at what he finds doing demolition on an interior that has be remodeled three times before he started pulling plaster. In a year or two he will develop x-ray vision. At that point he'll likely be running his own crew. He will also tell you that building new houses is a piece of pumpkin pie in comparison to day to day in the home improvement industry.

Granted, the small builder may have both skills. But that is a function of the economic necessity. When one starts building and selling instruments they cannot expect to be able to make a living doing so. They learn to do some repair work while refining their designs.

Building is easier than repair work. Once the design is in place it is rote. Repair work involves problem solving on a daily basis. It is also true that after doing repair work for a long time that work becomes much easier. It is also true that something is bound to cross the bench that will cause head scratching, reaching for repair manuals, and maybe a call to others with whom we network. As someone who both builds and repairs, you already know that.

Respectfully submitted.


I wouldn't call the guys at Fender builders, they are assembly line workers. If you gave most of them a pile of raw wood, a router and a band saw, they most likely could not turn it into a working instrument. The majority of the builders, like the ones on this forum, who don't work in a fully automated CNC shop absolutely know the ins and outs of the instruments they produce, and are fully capable of repair work.
 
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


CARE AND MAINTENANCE

Your new Fender bass is precision crafted to give you many years of playing satisfaction.
A few simple maintenance procedures will help keep your instrument in top condition for years to come.

Keep Your Bass Clean:
Dirt, dust, skin oils, perspiration and smoke can prematurely age the finish and fittings of your
bass. Wipe down the entire instrument with a soft dry Fender approved polish cloth after each use. Clean and polish your
bass periodically using a Fender approved polish on the finished wood surfaces and Fender approved polish/cleaner
on the metal surfaces, then dry with a soft polishing cloth. Visit Invalid Link Removed for information on Fender approved polish and polishing cloths.

Oil The Fretboard Periodically:
The natural oils in Rosewood, Pau Ferro and Ebony fingerboards may dry out
over time. Rough, exposed fret edges are evidence of dry, shrunken wood. It is a good idea to give your fretboard
a “drink” of lemon oil, boiled linseed oil or other non silicone-based wood/furniture oil, periodically to preserve
its integrity and natural beauty.
Note:
With the strings removed, apply oil first to a clean lint free cloth, rub into the wood, let it soak in for a few minutes, and then wipe to dry any excess oil. Do not apply oil to the finished surfaces of the bass.

Examine Strap Buttons Periodically:
Over time, the shifting weight of your bass on the strap may cause the strap button screws to loosen up. Snug them up from time to time. If loose screws are neglected and not tightened up, the moving weight of the instrument may expand the mounting holes to the point where the screws will no longer hold fast.

Setup And Adjust As Needed:
Familiarize yourself with the setup and adjustment procedures in this manual or visit an Authorized Fender Service Center and adjust as needed.
Note:
Neglecting an instrument that is in need of adjustment may lead to complications.
Seasonal Adjustments:
Your bass, like all instruments made from wood, can be sensitive to seasonal fluctuations of temperature and humidity. It is natural for the woods to expand and contract with these changes and this movement can affect the setup and playability of the bass. It’s a good idea to schedule routine adjustments to
compensate for the effects of these seasonal variations.
 
It seems like everytime I read a Bass Player magazine with an article on a boutique builder, they usually began by repairing gear. So when they say to oil the board, and that describe HOW and WHEN it should be done, I'm willing to extend them the courtesy of acknowledging that they know what they're talking about. And FWIW, Martin's repair/restoration department is about keeping some very important instruments alive and in playable condition using specifically trained techs. I'd imagine Fender is quite possibly the same way. I doubt they pull Sam off the assembly line and say, "Hey Sam, fix this, will you?"
 
The differences in opinion have left me unsure as to what to do for the best.

Up until a few years ago I had never oiled the rosewood fingerboard of my 10 year old bass. On getting it setup I asked for a full cleaning which included it and it smelt nice when it came back, and was cleaner, but I didn't notice anything meaningfully different.

Saying this I can see the logic of feeding the wood to keep it from totally drying out however the frequency seems to be up for debate.

I watched this recently, with Tobias talking about frequency of oiling at every string change:

I hope I've picked the correct video

The subject of oiling fingerboards is touched on briefly in the last minute of that video. Living in Montreal (where the summers tend to be very humid and the winters tend to be very dry I have seen all kinds of things happen to wood (there's lots of wood furniture in the house). I oil my fingerboards probably twice a year. Is it necessary? I don't know - but it certainly doesn't seem to hurt. I will say that the only wood on a fingerboard I've seen crack due to excessive dryness in the winter is ebony.
 
The differences in opinion have left me unsure as to what to do for the best.
yeah me too, enough to push me towards the opinion that none of it makes much difference good or bad, which is why i'm now in the "first do no harm" camp and leave it alone entirely.
I watched this recently, with Tobias talking about frequency of oiling at every string change:

good video! it's all worth watching, but the bit about oiling happens right at the end; mike T says once a month regardless, while i get the impression that roger S doesn't quite agree but didn't want to say, as he comments afterwards that the only wood he's ever seen that had actual cracking issues from dryness is ebony (that's my experience too).

remember, oil is not "moisture", moisture means water; mike T recommends lots of oiling just to slow down the transfer of moisture in and out of the wood from ambient humidity.

terry mcinturff, every bit the master luthier that these guys are, says that in his research regular oil doesn't even do that! he says the water molecules slip right past the much larger oil molecules, and the board gains or loses water just as easily as before.

as i think about it, even after oiling a rosewood board and wiping it clean, once it's all absorbed in, you can still put a drop of water on the wood and it'll soak right in too! it's not being prevented from entering the wood at all.

he insists the only "oil" that's worth bothering with is a polymerizing oil finish like linseed or tung, where it actually hardens into a barrier layer on top of the wood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx
I'm no expert but I have it on good authority that 'lemon oil' (not the 'essential' variety - the mineral variety) is good. I was given some by a friend and luthier while having a fret-dressing done, way back in the Nineties. He also indicated that it cleans up nitro finishes too. I made a point of asking and this guitar was his originally. I can vouch for this - I will emphasize, however, that lemon oil isn't a miracle-worker on nitro finishes - a good polish product, specifically for finishes like nitro, is best if you're wanting to cut a finish back, to remove scratches, to enhance luster, etc.. Lemon oil, however, WILL clean your instrument too, and it will adequately clean your fretboard, as long as it's not too far gone.

If you do this, you must make sure that all traces of the oil are polished away before you finish the process. Residue does tend to stain nitro so never leave it on a finish for any length of time, and always use it sparingly. I believe lemon oil's main purpose, specifically regarding application onto boards made from rosewood, jacaranda, ebony etc. - IE: all the traditionally unpainted boards - is, as a preservative, to slow down the breakdown, the decay, of a fingerboard. Keeping it 'wet' this way does that job admirably. Boards that are not cared for in such a manner, as they age, do tend to dry out and even become decrepit and crumbly - same as any aging wood does, eventually. You don't have to overdo it, as has already been said in this thread. But, a little dab'll do ya, as they say in the classics, every-once-in-a-while.

Remember, you should always seek to find out first, from those who know, before you do any damage. Don't take my word for it. And always test the process first, if at all possible, on anything other than your most prized instruments.
 
Last edited:
So do the rosewood fretboards NOT tend to dry out over time, as stated by both Fender and Music Man (years, I believe is what's insinuated, but nonetheless...)? Both makers recommend the use of some kind of oil to keep the fretboard from drying out in their little handbooks (I'd have to to look to see just what they recommend, but again, they do recommend it).

Thanx....

Yes fretboards do dry out. It is a piece of wood after all...

Fret Dr. is the best. Don't buy anything else. Get yourself a bottle, put it on about once a year, actually this time of year is good since it's getting cold and the air is a lot drier, and you'll be set for about 20 years. A little goes a long way.

Don't use lemon oil or mineral oil. Not exactly sure why but that was Philtone told me and what he says is gospel as far as I'm concerned.
 
I'm surprised no one has recommended Dr. ducks Ax Wax yet. It's safe for all woods, finishes and hardware and it's really good stuff. Just a light rubbing over the whole bass every few months during a string change cleans it and moistens it wonderfully. I let it sit for a few minutes and then take the next half hour to buff out all the excess oil til it doesn't feel greasy anymore. Leaves the instrument feeling and looking great, makes the neck faster and at 7 or 8 bucks a bottle its no risk to try. I've had my one bottle for years and it's not even half gone.
 
Pick or fingers? P or J? Rounds or flats? Rosewood or maple? Nitro or poly? SS or tubes? Grit or clean?

It's all personal preference. I prefer not to have ashy looking rosewood, so I occasionally hit them with lemon oil.
 
Yes fretboards do dry out. It is a piece of wood after all...

My evidence to the contrary:

1963 P with 1972 neck - never oiled since I got it in 1967. !964 Gibson EB-0, never oiled at least in the last 22 years (that's as far back as I have history on it.)

Both basses have lived their entire lives in the western US in low humidity areas. Fretboards are in fine condition. Oiling may make the fretboard prettier, but it's not necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hopkins
My evidence to the contrary:

1963 P with 1972 neck - never oiled since I got it in 1967. !964 Gibson EB-0, never oiled at least in the last 22 years (that's as far back as I have history on it.)

Both basses have lived their entire lives in the western US in low humidity areas. Fretboards are in fine condition. Oiling may make the fretboard prettier, but it's not necessary.

I guess it's kind of like washing your car. You don't have to wash it to drive, but it sure makes it look better!
 
There prob is enough oil from our fingers....wipe the bass with a super soft cloth frequently...sorta polish the fret board and shine it up..5 yrs on my ibby...every imaginable climate and gig situation...rain, snow,hot,cold,inside,outside and she is lookin good as new...no oil...but i do take the time to wipe it down regularly
 
Yes fretboards do dry out. It is a piece of wood after all...

Fret Dr. is the best. Don't buy anything else. Get yourself a bottle, put it on about once a year, actually this time of year is good since it's getting cold and the air is a lot drier, and you'll be set for about 20 years. A little goes a long way.

Don't use lemon oil or mineral oil. Not exactly sure why but that was Philtone told me and what he says is gospel as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, bare wood dries out. The idea is to replace the lost water with oil to preserve the general dimensionality of the wood. Yes, Lemon oil is a cleaner. Hence, it's great for removing finger mung build-up on your neck. It also soaks into the wood helping keep it from becoming brittle and dry LOOKING. So part of this thing is about looks as well. I used lemon oil for years and it works great. BUT, it's a rather volatile oil. That means it evaporates off the wood fairly quickly. In my experience it takes about a month or so which is where the "once a month" figure comes from. But for me that got tiring fast. So I modified the treatment of the usual lemon cleaning and rubbing with a final rub down of "bore oil" which is oil used to treat the inside of clarinets and the like. That gives a nice long life to the treatment where every 6 months or even a year is OK. Which is where that number comes from. So what oil you use DOES make a difference.

These days I use Fret Dr. It's basically a nice mixture of light and longer lasting oils much like my "standard" treatment above and works equally well and lasts as long or even longer. Not bad at all.

Personally I don't recommend boiled linseed oil or Tung oil which are varnishes that totally seal the wood. You can do that. Hey the rest of the bass is sealed! but I find that varnished fingerboard / fretboards change the tone and feel of the bass. I Own a couple of varnished fretboard basses and they are OK so it's not horrible or anything, but they are clearly different from bare oiled wood necks. If it were me and I wanted a varnished sealed neck I'd go with some hard polyurethane (catalyzed is best) that stands up well to being rubbed by strings. As for me I really like the look and feel of an unvarnished board. And that means a periodic treatment depending on what you choose to use.

Note my Alembic with an ebony fingerboard did develop some tiny cracks down at the high note end in spite of regular treatments. But that's the only one so far. It was not a big deal to fill the tiny cracks with epoxy and sand the whole thing smooth again.
 
Eh whatever. Not worth arguing with you over this. Obviously your opinion isn't going to change based on anything I say.

I think it's a looks thing and a useful thing to do to keep your board looking nice.